|
|
Help with PC please
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Help with PC please // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by splinters // Apr 1, 2007, 10:47pm
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
You guys are great, I get more useful fedback in one or two posts than I get anywhere else on the net, and as tS is my main use of the PC. this is often the best place to go.
My train of thought; I ran the system perfectly but it deteriorated. Take the card out and the system runs fine and exactly as when bought so you would conclude that the card went bad...but after what you said about marginal performance, that seems very likely too. This means that a different card might only bail me out until the next time the board gets 'picky' so I would really want to get rid of the board...if possible
I tried to return the PC but as there is no problem running without the 7900 card and I have had it more than 28 day, they are not being helpful.
Acer would not really find a fault, I swapped the PSU (void warranty) and I cannot really afford to be without it just now (tS7.5 anyone?)
So, new mobo is my only option but I don't want to have to buy a new OS-that was a main reason for buying this PC.
I change the mobo and it all goes wrong, can I install from a backup CD (a 'friends' CD) and use my product key. Failing that I would have to run a 'dodgy' copy until vista arrives this week (fingers crossed) and try the 'clean install from an upgrade' workaround.
You guys have been really great...did I say that already...:)
Expect many favours back once I get up and running...:D |
Post by TomG // Apr 2, 2007, 1:44am
|
TomG
Total Posts: 3397
|
Originally Posted by TomG
"
Best to run it with its own connection to the PSU if possible (some cards this is optional, some cards this is vital). "
"I've not heard of any for which it was optional."
Hmm everything up to my 6600, and maybe even my 7600 (I forget), all ran without needing power from the PSU, they took their power from the AGP slot only. The 8800 is the first card I've had that needed its own power connection (even that is listed as being "a good idea to provide stable power" rather than as being essential to have plugged in - though naturally I have it plugged in).
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Alien // Apr 2, 2007, 2:44am
|
Alien
Total Posts: 1231
|
I looked it up a while back and I think it's a Biostar board. It's actually a pretty nice board except for the part where they hard soldered the CPU to the board... first time I've seen that since the 486 desktops...
Biostar... don't think I've had any experience with them. I have to admit the CPU being soldered to the motherboard surprises me too, I thought only VIA did that these days with their own CPUs.
I agree that this is likely an issue of a computer (motherboard and powersupply specifically) engineered to a very fine margin and not really suitable for upgrading.
<snip>
Just need to take it all in perspective, for the average user the system that Splinters bought would probably perform fairly well and considering that was the target market is it really fair to judge the product by our standards?
Honestly? Yes, I think so. The reason Splinters has found himself in the situation he has is because of a company using poor spec components.
Or maybe just put it up on ebay and see what he can get for it?
"Not a lot" would be my guess.
Though if the case and and components are good, a quality budget motherboard sounds like it would get him up and running as well. My only worry is why pay to upgrade dated technology?
The C2D chips are pretty amazing and intel motherboards are a lot cheaper than AMD based boards these days.
Perhaps, but he's already got a socket AM2 CPU & a more hefty PSU [though not 100% sure if it'll be quite hefty enough], so all he needs is a new mobo. Were he to go the C2D route, he'd have to get a new CPU as well. As for outdated tech, well perhaps, given that IIRC it's only an X2 3800 [though IIRC, the 3800's supposed to be pretty good for overclocking, should he decide to try that]. However, when AMD bring out their quad core AM2 chips, which I think is supposed to be a bit later this year, he should be able to stick 1 in there.
As far as video games go, the cpu speed isn't really that big a deal, any chip as fast or faster than a 2.0 GHz single core Athlon is fine as long as you have 2 Gig of ram and an nVidia 7900 or 8800 video card. It's the video card that is still the bottleneck for performance, but for rendering with VRay and Lightworks is where the faster Intel C2Ds would really shine.
I don't recall Splinters ever mentioning that he was much of a gamer, & with everything else on his plate I don't think his 3D cards are going to see much useage outside tS, for which I would have thought an 8800 would be a bit of overkill. I think he'd have to start throwing around some seriously polygon-heavy scenes before he'd need an 8800.
In fact it would be cool if we could come up with an "official" test scene for the community to benchmark the actual difference.
Definitely a good idea.
My train of thought; I ran the system perfectly but it deteriorated. Take the card out and the system runs fine and exactly as when bought so you would conclude that the card went bad...but after what you said about marginal performance, that seems very likely too. This means that a different card might only bail me out until the next time the board gets 'picky' so I would really want to get rid of the board...if possible
I can't argue with that logic. :) I'm just wondering which mobo to recommend.
Normally, for a single socket board [as opposed to dual Opteron, which is a different sack of ferrets altogether] I'd say something made by Abit. The cheapest Abit AM2 board seems to be the KN9 Ultra, which goes for around £44, depending on where you look. However, it uses the Nforce 4 chipset, & I seem to remember... something about problems relating to the NF4 chipset [not specific to Abit NF4 boards, just NF4 boards in general], but for the life of me can't remember what they were, so don't have any idea whether they'd be relevant to you.
When considering my next major upgrade, the board that I've mostly been thinking of is this 1, the Asus Crosshair (http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/113971) [that's also the cheapest price I could find it at as well].
If that's too much for you, let me know, & I'll have a look at the other [other than the KN9 Ultra, I mean] Abit boards to see which looks like your best option, as they're cheaper than the Asus Crosshair.
So, new mobo is my only option but I don't want to have to buy a new OS-that was a main reason for buying this PC.
I change the mobo and it all goes wrong, can I install from a backup CD (a 'friends' CD) and use my product key. Failing that I would have to run a 'dodgy' copy until vista arrives this week (fingers crossed) and try the 'clean install from an upgrade' workaround.
Assuming the "friend's" CD is the same version [e.g. both XP Home OEM, as opposed to trying your OEM key on a Retail (boxed) Pro v.], then AFAIK it ought to work.
You guys have been really great...did I say that already...:)
Expect many favours back once I get up and running...:D
Some-a day, I'm-a gonna ask-a you-a favour. <strokes imaginary white cat> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/smilies/disturbed.gif
Hmm everything up to my 6600, and maybe even my 7600 (I forget), all ran without needing power from the PSU, they took their power from the AGP slot only. The 8800 is the first card I've had that needed its own power connection (even that is listed as being "a good idea to provide stable power" rather than as being essential to have plugged in - though naturally I have it plugged in).
TBH, I've always taken it as a given that you should make use of a graphics card's power connector if it has 1. I prefer not to take chances with my hardware when they can be avoided. |
Post by xmanflash // Apr 2, 2007, 3:50am
|
xmanflash
Total Posts: 335
|
In fact it would be cool if we could come up with an "official" test scene for the community to benchmark the actual difference.
-Jack.
Yes thats a great Idea.. It would be nice to see what performance people get off different hardware.. If somebody wants to make a scene (not that kind of scene! :-) you can upload it to the www.truespacelibrary.com for sharing.. Probably need a few version, 7.11 with vray 1, 7.11 withother renderer, 7.5 with vray, 7.5 with other renderer |
Post by splinters // Apr 2, 2007, 10:16am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
I bought an Asus Mobo on the way home and just fitted it...windows loaded, froze a bit then installed new hardware a lot...then it rebooted and loaded just fine, albeit the fans are whirring like mad...(ACPI issue?)
Only one clash I need to sort out really...something to do with the ACPI so I shall look at that. Windows told me I had 28 days to activate and when I did it told me incorrect product key...but the key was not one from the case. I put that in and it happily activated. Now if I could only get the fans to slow down...:rolleyes:
Oh, and the system is running better than ever with the 7900GT in...so I guess that reinforces the dodgy mobo train of thought. Damn, I can work again...:)
And as for gaming, this system suits me just fine for tS testing, Quake 4 and HL2. And Doom3? well 70FPS in high quality with all settings turned on at 1280x1024 is good enough for me....:D |
Post by hemulin // Apr 2, 2007, 10:23am
|
hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
|
....albeit the fans are whirring like mad...(ACPI issue?)...Only one clash I need to sort out really...something to do with the ACPI so I shall look at that.
If you are having problems with fans running too fast and they won't automatically slow down download speedfan (http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php) which will let you manually set the speeds of the fans. Don't worry because if it detects a component is getting too hot it will ramp of the fans to full. ;) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 2, 2007, 10:49am
|
Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
|
Great news Splinters! :)
The fans might be some kind of low wattage fans and used to less power? I'm assuming they are hooked up to the Motherboard?
I spent the extra money for nice fans on my system and I can run them at ~2500RPM -- moving a LOT of air -- and they are still really quiet. It's definitely worth it (noise wise) to get better fans.
Newegg sells them as generic but it's made by TekChain. They are really nice and come with a speed controller:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835216006
A couple other manufacturers rebrand them, so here's the model number:
TC- 9CAS-BL
I was also very impressed with the SilenX brand fans I bought, but they were quite a bit more expensive. The SilenX fans are nicer construction and almost completely silent while still moving a lot of air, but it's nice that the TC ones come with a speed controller.
-Jack. |
Post by Alien // Apr 2, 2007, 12:16pm
|
Alien
Total Posts: 1231
|
I bought an Asus Mobo on the way home
Which 1 did you get?
and just fitted it...windows loaded, froze a bit then installed new hardware a lot...then it rebooted and loaded just fine, albeit the fans are whirring like mad...(ACPI issue?)
Only one clash I need to sort out really...something to do with the ACPI so I shall look at that.
The ACPI problem would probably disappear if you did a clean reinstall, which I still think would be a good idea.
And as for gaming, this system suits me just fine for tS testing, Quake 4 and HL2. And Doom3? well 70FPS in high quality with all settings turned on at 1280x1024 is good enough for me....:D
Ah, didn't realise you did any gaming - didn't think you'd have time with all the beta testing, icon-making, & Hemulin-taming. :D
I was also very impressed with the SilenX brand fans I bought, but they were quite a bit more expensive. The SilenX fans are nicer construction and almost completely silent while still moving a lot of air, but it's nice that the TC ones come with a speed controller.
I've got a little SilenX on my motherboard chipset, cost me about a tenner for just the 1 40mm fan, but it was worth it. Abit make nice mobos, but they tend to put crap fans on the motherboard - both wore out within a year, but was simpler to replace them than RMA the boards. |
Post by hemulin // Apr 2, 2007, 12:23pm
|
hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
|
Hemulin-taming. :D
That is a full time job ;). |
Post by splinters // Apr 2, 2007, 12:42pm
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
I got an ASUS M2N-MX, decent enough for what I want-has same chipset and is MicroATX to fit in the existing ACER case which I quite like. It also has full 16x PCI-E not locked at 8x like the Acer board.
But best of all...it bloody works...so far...:rolleyes: |
Post by TomG // Apr 2, 2007, 1:07pm
|
TomG
Total Posts: 3397
|
Good to hear! I like my ASUS board so far, not had it too long though only a month or so. However I think you are definitely better off with that board than your original ;)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by splinters // Apr 2, 2007, 9:18pm
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Cheers Tom, everything is back to normal (almost) and it is definitely a better board...just need to sort the 'turbo' fans out on this one...:rolleyes: |
Post by stoker // Apr 3, 2007, 11:15am
|
stoker
Total Posts: 506
|
Slowed your "turbo" fans down yet? |
Post by splinters // Apr 3, 2007, 1:09pm
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
I put the case sides back on...that is as good as it gets for now. Still, it matches my work speed....vvroooooooooom....;) |
Post by splinters // Apr 7, 2007, 10:28am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Just to let you all know, I put in some nice green LED Akasa fans with variable speed. Pc runs nice and quiet now. I also managed to get the Acer Vista Upgrade to install correctly so I now have a quiet, fast Vista powered PC, all nice and legal despite Acer's attempts to stitch me up for trying to get 'their' PC running properly...:D
There is some justice in the world...:rolleyes: |
|
