|
|
Lothissen Project
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Lothissen Project // Work in Progress
Post by jayr // Jul 26, 2007, 5:45am
|
jayr
Total Posts: 1074
|
I just realized how long it's been since i posted any 3D work here (a long time). So i'm post the beginings of an animation project i've been planing for a while. It's stupidly ambitous, so much so i think i'm going to burn out both myself and my poor pc doing it!
It's going to be a bit of a fantasy adventure type of thing, i'm doing a trailer for it first to see how hard it'll be to do the rest of it.
My website is going to get overhauled to reflect the new project a bit more too, when i've got a bit more organized.
Anyway, here are a few screen grabs of one of the characters so far. No head or hands yet, still working on them and the textures are nowhere near finished.
http://www.lothissen.co.uk/screen001.jpg http://www.lothissen.co.uk/screen002.jpg |
Post by frootee // Jul 26, 2007, 5:59am
|
frootee
Total Posts: 2667
|
Nice start jayr. So you're going to bone him up and animate him right? :)
Froo |
Post by jayr // Jul 26, 2007, 6:07am
|
jayr
Total Posts: 1074
|
Nice start jayr. So you're going to bone him up and animate him right? :)
Yup, thats the plan. The body parts are seperate so i can retexture them and reuse them more easily, trying to think ahead.
Just for a comparison, here is the costume design i did in pencil:
http://www.lothissen.co.uk/erik001.jpg |
Post by jayr // Jul 27, 2007, 9:05am
|
jayr
Total Posts: 1074
|
getting closer with the textures on the shirt:
http://www.lothissen.co.uk/ren001.jpg
Still a few thing to iron out on it though. There is some texture stretching near the neck and a few other places but i'm getting there. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jul 27, 2007, 8:07pm
|
3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
|
Interesting project Jayr!
I like the textures you're using, the seam at the shoulderline is a nice touch too.
I really like the sketch you made... and I've been looking at that hooded cape for a while now thinking about how I would model it. I think I'd try that in Moment Of Inspiration myself, but how do you plan to do it using trueSpace?
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by jayr // Jul 27, 2007, 9:37pm
|
jayr
Total Posts: 1074
|
I really like the sketch you made... and I've been looking at that hooded cape for a while now thinking about how I would model it. I think I'd try that in Moment Of Inspiration myself, but how do you plan to do it using trueSpace?
- 3dvisuals dude
i'm not sure how to do the cloak yet but i've been trying it with normal polygon modeling because it's going to have bones in it so i can animate it. |
Post by splinters // Jul 27, 2007, 10:09pm
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
This 'hood' was pretty basic but was done with Nurbs so not sure how that would fit into your animation;
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/attachment.php?attachmentid=3460&stc=1&d=1166515529 |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jul 27, 2007, 10:10pm
|
3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
|
i'm not sure how to do the cloak yet but i've been trying it with normal polygon modeling because it's going to have bones in it so i can animate it.
Bones in it? Cool!
As for nurbs modeling, whether in trueSpace or MOI or whatever, after you create a nurbs object, save it, and then bring it into trueSpace Workplace side it's no longer a nurbs object, it's a triangulated poly object at that point so you should be able to apply bones to it just fine. I'm certainly no expert on this suff, but I do make nurbs models every week and bring them into trueSpace for additional work and rendering.
I'm just learning trueSpace nurbs myself, although without a great deal of specifically-related training I turn to MOI for really fast nurbs models with a high degree of success. Either way, it just seems to me that nurbs would be the way to go for the kind of flowing model surface a hooded cloak demands, and I'll look forward to seeing how you tackle this since I'd like to know how to do it in trueSpace myself too!
If you run into any snags with that people here more qualified than myself will probably help you on it, but if not just drop me a PM here on it and I'll see if I can help in some way.
Great project, I'm looking forward to this going places!
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by jayr // Jul 27, 2007, 10:36pm
|
jayr
Total Posts: 1074
|
splinters: The Gammon menace, like it! the hood looks good too
3Dvisuals Dude: I've not used nurbs much, always stuck to polygons, think it's because i read somewhere years ago that they take up more memory (???) is that true anymore? was it ever?
I'm thinking that i may model a few versions of it i.e. hood up, hood down, cloak slung over shoulders... and so on. to save having to come up with a complex solution to fit all possiblities |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jul 28, 2007, 2:10am
|
3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
|
3Dvisuals Dude: I've not used nurbs much, always stuck to polygons, think it's because i read somewhere years ago that they take up more memory (???) is that true anymore? was it ever?
I'm thinking that i may model a few versions of it i.e. hood up, hood down, cloak slung over shoulders... and so on. to save having to come up with a complex solution to fit all possiblities
More memory?!?
I don't know about that one, it's kind of funny though when I consider that because I have a very slow computer with only 1 gig of ram running XP Pro and I use nurbs at least half the time when I model with no noticable "memory" issues at all. Maybe it used to be true when memory was typically much smaller on average, but it's no concern now if it ever really was.
Well, if you do end up going the nurbs route with the cloak and hood there is one really cool advantage aside from the obvious flowing surface ones, and that is the fact that you can create a nurbs cloak... save it... just adjust the control points to shift it's position... save that... etcetera, without re-modeling the cloak from scratch with every version. A big advantage, for sure.
Come to think of it... hold on a sec...
Here's an image of a cloak I created a few months ago with nurbs. Not exactly like yours, but it will give you an idea of the flowing surfaces advantage I think.
This one was made in MOI but trueSpace could make this too.
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by jayr // Jul 28, 2007, 2:47am
|
jayr
Total Posts: 1074
|
nice, how did you do that in MOI? i was having a look at MOI today, it looks pretty good |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jul 28, 2007, 3:14am
|
3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
|
nice, how did you do that in MOI? i was having a look at MOI today, it looks pretty good
Well basically the approach to nurbs is pretty much the same with any nurbs program so I assume the same is true within trueSpace as it is with MOI, but again, I'm just starting to dabble with nurbs in trueSpace myself and have a much better handle on nurbs creation within MOI at the moment.
That said, the approach starts with drawing curved lines, so when you look at the image I just uploaded try to see it without the final surfaces there... just see it as dark curved lines... that's where it starts.
At the bottom I created a freeform curve using the "through points" option, although I could have used the "freeform sketch" option also.
Then I created another curve (closed this time) for the chest to shoulder area.
Then I created a straight line from the frontmost center point of that upper curve to one of the open ends of the lower curve.
Then I selected that straight line and used MOI's "sweep" command, selected both the upper curve and lower curve as the sweeping rails, and the command created the flowing surface you now see between the upper and lower curves.
The top part was slightly different, there I created another curve for the lapel of the cape which started and ended at the same frontmost center point of the chest/shoulder curve, and used MOI's "loft" command to create a flowing surface between those two curves.
Then I looked at the model from the side view, drew an eliptical closed curve for the shape of the armhole cutouts, used "curve project" to place that cutout shape perfectly on both sides of the model simultaneously, then selected both projected curves AND the model... used "trim" and hit "done."
Then I deleted the 2 new surfaces formed where the 2 armholes also now were, deleted all the lines and curves used to construct the model, selected the model and then finally used "shell" with a thickness of .02 to create a double sided mesh with a thickness similar to a cape.
Simpler to do than explain, trust me on that one!:D
I'm sure this can also be done in trueSpace, I just haven't had the time to discover exactly how yet!;)
Hope that helps,
- 3dvisuals dude
EDIT: I should also have said this: Once such surfaces are created in MOI you can select them and use the "edit - show points" option in MOI to see their control points. These control points are points in 3D space which are otherwise invisible and are connected via dashed lines in MOI. They can be manipulated via dragging (they can also be added to or deleted) to alter the location of the actual surfaces they control on the model in 3D space... so you can use them to handle cloth very easily. |
Post by frootee // Jul 28, 2007, 3:26am
|
frootee
Total Posts: 2667
|
Hi jayr.
You can add bones to the outside of a mesh for deforming it. There is an example in the characters library - the batwing. You can tug on the bones, and the 'skin' deforms accordingly.
In the Character editor preferences in the Panels tab, there is a dropdown for Joint Placement. Select: Surface.
This will place the bones on the outside surface of the mesh; in your case, the cape.
HTH!
Froo |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jul 28, 2007, 3:29am
|
3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
|
Hi jayr.
You can add bones to the outside of a mesh for deforming it. There is an example in the characters library - the batwing. You can tug on the bones, and the 'skin' deforms accordingly.
In the Character editor preferences in the Panels tab, there is a dropdown for Joint Placement. Select: Surface.
This will place the bones on the outside surface of the mesh; in your case, the cape.
HTH!
Froo
That's awesome!
I'll definitely be playing with that now too! I'm amazed I never heard this one before here, that's a very cool feature to have for lots of things!
Thanks Frootee!
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by jayr // Jul 28, 2007, 4:23am
|
jayr
Total Posts: 1074
|
3Dvisuals Dude: Thanks, i know what you mean now, i think! You make a begining shape, an end shape and a path for them to follow and it does the rest, if that makes sense. Have you took that cape into truespace? what was the polycount in the workspace?
Frootee: Thanks! the batwing is kind of what i'm looking for. I'm just wondering now hoe i'll get it to work with the character. The cloak will have to move with the character. can you do the 'bone outside the skin' trick on an object assigned to something else? I think i remember the thread on this. I'll have to find it. |
Post by frootee // Jul 28, 2007, 4:30am
|
frootee
Total Posts: 2667
|
Hi jayr. I think this is what you are looking for:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=3606
Looking forward to seeing how you do this! Say, when you get it going, could you post some tips?
Froo |
Post by jayr // Jul 28, 2007, 4:46am
|
jayr
Total Posts: 1074
|
Excellent, thanks frootee. If i have any tips worth passing on! Got a feeling i'll just have a giant headache and an ulcer! As i said at the begining of this thread, i'm redesigning my website soon and i want to do something like the rustboy site (http://www.rustboy.com), any tips, tricks or tutorials i can come up with i'll stick on my site as i go along with updates, concept art and all that kind of stuff. |
Post by jayr // Jul 28, 2007, 5:32am
|
jayr
Total Posts: 1074
|
Ok, my first go at the cloak with the hood up, done in polygons renderin v-ray, far from finished it needs shaping a lot more.
http://www.lothissen.co.uk/hood001.jpg |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jul 28, 2007, 12:20pm
|
3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
|
3Dvisuals Dude: Thanks, i know what you mean now, i think! You make a begining shape, an end shape and a path for them to follow and it does the rest, if that makes sense. Have you took that cape into truespace? what was the polycount in the workspace?
Yep, that's the basic idea with nurbs for that type of a model, although modeling with nurbs for other types of models is also far easier than with polygonal approaches in that the mesh isn't actually created until the model is saved or exported, and at that time you have complete control over the actual polycount prior to saving/exporting the object (in MOI anyway).
Consequently, the problems which polygonal modeling programs have with booleans? Gone. Also, you can use lines, arcs, and freeform curves as boolean operators, even many of them simultaneously. So you can, for instance, draw the "up" "down" and "side" view of a car with just lines for the car profile, edit them by dragging control points until they are very good, and then in one go cut the entire shape of the car from a cube.
Very fast modeling, and THAT is the primary advantage of nurbs for me.:D
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by RAYMAN // Jul 28, 2007, 1:22pm
|
RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
|
Yep, that's the basic idea with nurbs for that type of a model, although modeling with nurbs for other types of models is also far easier than with polygonal approaches in that the mesh isn't actually created until the model is saved or exported, and at that time you have complete control over the actual polycount prior to saving/exporting the object (in MOI anyway).
Consequently, the problems which polygonal modeling programs have with booleans? Gone. Also, you can use lines, arcs, and freeform curves as boolean operators, even many of them simultaneously. So you can, for instance, draw the "up" "down" and "side" view of a car with just lines for the car profile, edit them by dragging control points until they are very good, and then in one go cut the entire shape of the car from a cube.
Very fast modeling, and THAT is the primary advantage of nurbs for me.:D
- 3dvisuals dude
I would do the cape with nurbs too!
You just need a few curves to do that.
Its not impossible in Truspace but its much faster in Moi3d.
Its like drawing it with a pencil ! |
Post by jayr // Jul 29, 2007, 8:32am
|
jayr
Total Posts: 1074
|
My first attempt with nurbs, done in MOI, textured and rendered in truespace 7.5 with vray:
http://www.lothissen.co.uk/cloak002.jpg
i was surprised how easy this was, think i will be using this more from now on! thanks for the tip 3Dvisuals Dude! |
Post by RAYMAN // Jul 29, 2007, 8:57am
|
RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
|
i was surprised how easy this was, think i will be using this more from now on! thanks for the tip 3Dvisuals Dude!
I thank 3D visuals Dude for introducing me to it too !
When you start using it you realy become adicted.
Its so much fun using nurbs!
And the construction history lets you always alter
the flow of the textile.All you have to do is go to
show points and it lets you push and pull on the curves!
See now why we want the .3dm format for direct import
and export of nurbs in a future release.
Roman said that if enough of us want it ... we can have it.
You coud further work on what you have created in Truespace
using the isocurves and tapper and bend etc. |
Post by jayr // Jul 29, 2007, 12:07pm
|
jayr
Total Posts: 1074
|
new version of hood done in polygons, had some problems doing it in nurbs. used the head from the library because i haven't models the characters yet!:
http://www.lothissen.co.uk/hood003.jpg |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jul 29, 2007, 1:25pm
|
3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
|
- @ Jayr : Very nice work Jayr, nurbs really are fun to work with aren't they?:D
As for the hood, the polygonal model there looks good too. When it comes to having difficulty creating specific kinds of nurbs objects you will often find that within MOI or any other nurbs modeler (Rhino, trueSpace, etc) there are several different approaches possible in achieving intended results.
At the MOI forum you will often see posts from people who had similar issues with creating specific types of nurbs models, who after posting images of both their current state and (sketches of) their intended design, had a flood of responses to their posts offering numerous viable approaches to success. I highly recommend trying that approach there yourself with this hood, you may be very happy to discover there are lots of easy ways to do it in nurbs.
Rayman is right about that trueSpace 3DM Format issue too, if you start getting into nurbs a lot with either MOI or Rhino you will find the potential of importing nurbs -as- nurbs into trueSpace offers truly wonderful possibilities.
- @ Rayman : Looks like more and more of us here are discovering the cool uses of MOI with trueSpace, they really are very complimentary tools indeed.
I'm glad you found MOI as useful as I have with trueSpace, now I'm just looking forward to your next MOI-trueSpace project!;)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by RAYMAN // Jul 29, 2007, 2:30pm
|
RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
|
- @ Rayman : Looks like more and more of us here are discovering the cool uses of MOI with trueSpace, they really are very complimentary tools indeed.
I'm glad you found MOI as useful as I have with trueSpace, now I'm just looking forward to your next MOI-trueSpace project!;)
- 3dvisuals dude
Yes its cool that more and more of us are using it !
I´m looking forward to the project myself !
Jayr an initial problem should not keep you from trying it again.
Its learning by doing with nurbs for all of us.
Just think of ways to get it done with nurbs...
Like 3dvisuals dude said there are many ways to get there:) |
Post by jayr // Jul 30, 2007, 12:57am
|
jayr
Total Posts: 1074
|
Heres an update on the cloak, done in polygons rendered in vray. It's still a little stiff looking but i'm going to wait till the character is rigged and put in a more natural pose till i adjust it to fit properly. Anyway here it is:
http://www.lothissen.co.uk/cloak003.jpg |
Post by Ambrose // Jul 30, 2007, 3:02am
|
Ambrose
Total Posts: 261
|
Well look at the bright side, it's covering him totally so you only needs to model his boots etc. in detail but nothing else ;)
No seriously though you're making good progress and great fun to watch!
Thanks for sharing...
SeYa/Ambrose... |
Post by jayr // Jul 30, 2007, 3:23am
|
jayr
Total Posts: 1074
|
Well look at the bright side, it's covering him totally so you only needs to model his boots etc. in detail but nothing else
LOL, that'd be a plus side if hadn't modelled the rest anyway! I've delayed modelling the head for long enough now so i'm about to start it, i may be gone some time. |
Post by jayr // Jul 30, 2007, 8:50am
|
jayr
Total Posts: 1074
|
Been following Nowherebrain's tutorial to make the head, this is where i've got to so far:
http://www.lothissen.co.uk/Head001.jpg
get the tutorial here (if you haven't seen it already):
http://www.scatteredpixel.com |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 1, 2007, 9:57am
|
3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
|
new version of hood done in polygons, had some problems doing it in nurbs. used the head from the library because i haven't models the characters yet!:
Sorry Jayr, I've been away from this thread for longer than I anticipated and I did want to at least give you a working nurbs method for the hood as an alternative to polymodeling, since it would be so much easier to modify for animation especially.
What I did just now is make a hood with nurbs showing you the methods I used and the outcome. It only took 5 minutes to make the hood with nurbs, but the real advantage comes in when you want to have the hood move in any way, whether in a head turning fashion or having it rest behind the head on the surface of the cape... doing that is just a matter of seconds, since all you have to do is move the control points (not visible in these pictures) and the mesh moves along with them quite easily.
This was done by creating 3 curved lines in 3d space and selecting one of them (in this case the one which is vertical) then choosing "sweep" and selecting the other two curves as the sweeping rails. The last step is using "shell" to create fabric thickness.
The only reason it took any time at all is the initial placement and shaping of those curves, the actual meshing is instantaneous.
The cloak and hood you made are great, this method just provides you with an excellent alternative from the standpoint of futher modification and animation.
Hope this helps,
- 3dvisuals dude |
|
