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Hairy Scary
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Hairy Scary // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by MadMouse // May 16, 2007, 12:18pm
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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When using the hair tools I assume that when the 'enable collision' tick box is checked that the hair will not collide with the object that you are adding hair to. Does anyone know if the hair will also not collide with other objects in the scene. What if the other objects are glued to the original object? |
Post by ed_baker // May 17, 2007, 2:18pm
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ed_baker
Total Posts: 355
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When using the hair tools I assume that when the 'enable collision' tick box is checked that the hair will not collide with the object that you are adding hair to. Does anyone know if the hair will also not collide with other objects in the scene. What if the other objects are glued to the original object?
I'm trying to get the hair to collide with anything. It doesn't seem to affect it whether or not the "Enable Collisions" is checked.
Have you had any results?
Ed |
Post by Heidi // May 17, 2007, 3:08pm
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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Hmmmm.... well they say a picture is worth a thousand words, so....
To answer the question about glued objects -- they would need to be booleaned. When they are glued they are still treated as separate objects. |
Post by Burnart // May 17, 2007, 3:49pm
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Burnart
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Nice easy to understand example - thanks Heidi. Does this mean hair only collides with the host object? That is: long hair won't interact with other obects in the scene apart from character wearing it - or have I got the wrong end of the stick? |
Post by ed_baker // May 18, 2007, 1:34am
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ed_baker
Total Posts: 355
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Hmmmm.... well they say a picture is worth a thousand words, so....
To answer the question about glued objects -- they would need to be booleaned. When they are glued they are still treated as separate objects.
So I take it there will not be any collision with other objects in the scene too?
That's what I was really looking for.
Thanks Heidi,
Ed |
Post by Heidi // May 18, 2007, 3:00am
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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So I take it there will not be any collision with other objects in the scene too?
I experimented a bit with glued objects. What I found when I looked in the LE is that the hair is applied to the individual object, not to the group. |
Post by ed_baker // May 18, 2007, 3:01am
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ed_baker
Total Posts: 355
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I experimented a bit with glued objects. What I found when I looked in the LE is that the hair is applied to the individual object, not to the group.
I wonder if there is a way to ge it to appply to the whole scene, or just objects of your choosing.
Ed |
Post by ed_baker // May 18, 2007, 3:16am
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ed_baker
Total Posts: 355
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I experimented a bit with glued objects. What I found when I looked in the LE is that the hair is applied to the individual object, not to the group.
I wonder if there is a way to ge it to appply to the whole scene, or just objects of your choosing.
Ed |
Post by prodigy // May 18, 2007, 3:46am
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prodigy
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Dejaboo???? :D |
Post by Heidi // May 18, 2007, 6:10am
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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I wonder if there is a way to ge it to appply to the whole scene, or just objects of your choosing.
Collisions only apply to the object on which the hair is applied. Even if you have muliple objects within a grouping or 'encapsulated in 3D' the hair is still applied to only a single object within that group. |
Post by ed_baker // May 18, 2007, 7:00am
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ed_baker
Total Posts: 355
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Collisions only apply to the object on which the hair is applied. Even if you have muliple objects within a grouping or 'encapsulated in 3D' the hair is still applied to only a single object within that group.
Well Stink! I guess that's something that I hope will get addressed in the next update/version.
Thanks Heidi.
Ed |
Post by splinters // May 18, 2007, 8:16am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Definitey one to look at for an update especialy when clothing is concerned on a character. |
Post by marekk // Jun 13, 2007, 8:39pm
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marekk
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Well Stink! I guess that's something that I hope will get addressed in the next update/version.
Ed
That won't be. There would be too much computing overhead for checking collisions with all objects. |
Post by splinters // Jun 13, 2007, 11:23pm
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splinters
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That is disappoining news Marek, especially as your answer sounds so 'final'...:o
Hair that does not sit on a characters shoulder or drape on the floor is not much good really. If you were to model a character to a high standard then watch hair dissapear through the floor or into a body part it would render it pretty useless.
I could understand that tS as a whole has it's limitations here but it is not as if we have a choice of plug-ins such as Shave and a Haircut to accomplish this...
Hair has been quite a disappointment for me after all these years of waiting. If it were not for the horrendous UI I would seriously look to Blender for hair, cloth and fluid dynamics...:o |
Post by Tiles // Jun 13, 2007, 11:28pm
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Tiles
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While it seems that there is no hope at Caligari side, there is hope at Blender side. Blender will get a new GUI in its next mayour release when the rumours are correct :) |
Post by splinters // Jun 13, 2007, 11:37pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Maybe I will drop them a line and see what is happening...;) |
Post by ed_baker // Jun 14, 2007, 1:48am
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ed_baker
Total Posts: 355
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That won't be. There would be too much computing overhead for checking collisions with all objects.
I would presume you would build collision detection on "guide hairs". From my understanding, that's how most hair systems work.
Then you have the particle based systems too I believe.
Shame that it's not going to happen.
Ed |
Post by frootee // Jun 14, 2007, 2:21am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Do other apps comparable to truespace support hair collision with all objects in the scene? |
Post by ed_baker // Jun 14, 2007, 2:23am
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ed_baker
Total Posts: 355
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Do other apps comparable to truespace support hair collision with all objects in the scene?
Not sure. By comparable I presume you mean price?
Ed |
Post by frootee // Jun 14, 2007, 2:26am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Yes. Cost and functionality. |
Post by ed_baker // Jun 14, 2007, 2:27am
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ed_baker
Total Posts: 355
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Yes. Cost and functionality.
No idea. . .anyone else know?
Ed |
Post by transient // Jun 14, 2007, 3:54am
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Dynamic hair is a pretty hardcore feature. Lightwave has an excellent plug-in (http://www.worley.com/E/Products/sasquatch/sasquatch.html) which does this, but it costs $500. C4d's plug-in is in a similar price range. Blender's hair is particle based if I remember rightly, and doesn't have dynamics.
I would be stunned if this capability was integrated into an app in TS's price range, or open source, but you can always dream. |
Post by ed_baker // Jun 14, 2007, 3:58am
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ed_baker
Total Posts: 355
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Dynamic hair is a pretty hardcore feature. Lightwave has an excellent plug-in (http://www.worley.com/E/Products/sasquatch/sasquatch.html) which does this, but it costs $500. C4d's plug-in is in a similar price range. Blender's hair is particle based if I remember rightly, and doesn't have dynamics.
I would be stunned if this capability was integrated into an app in TS's price range, or open source, but you can always dream.
Dreaming is what I am doing :)
Ed |
Post by frootee // Jun 14, 2007, 4:13am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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true. this does make sense. Computational costs of hair, and fluid simulation, that matter, are quite extensive. This means increased memory requirements and in higher end cases results in requiring a render farm. |
Post by jayr // Jun 14, 2007, 4:22am
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jayr
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well maybe the next step would be to get hair to react to anything attached to the same skeleton it's attached to (if that makes sense).
What i mean is you could model a head (or anything else for that matter) and several other objects, link them by a skeleton, add the hair and it would react to the other objects controlled by that skeleton.
I don't know much about programing but that would add a limit to what it has to calculate, would that make it easier? |
Post by splinters // Jun 14, 2007, 4:23am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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All good points and tS is great at what it does but if I wanted to take my characters to the ultimate level with realistic hair and skin, just how long can I stick with Caligari before I have to (really have to) move on to another package to accomplish this.
My time is limited as I have to hold down a real job so time to learn several packages is limited as well as the money to buy them all...that is why I stick with tS...but I do want to push the limits a bit more. Hair that does not stop at the floor kinda ruins the effect.
Still a loyal user but finding limitations to what I can do in tS... |
Post by frootee // Jun 14, 2007, 6:19am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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To be honest splinters, it sounds like even if Caligari offered a highly realistic hair product, it would be prohibitively expensive for most users. Which means if Caligari developed it no one would buy it, and they'd eat the costs.
Frootee |
Post by jayr // Jun 14, 2007, 7:12am
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jayr
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If you look at cinema 4d the basic program costs £463 then the other 7 add-on moduels, the advanced renderer, hair, particles, character animation ect.., cost between £219-£283 or the bundles are about £1150 (xl) or £1892. Trusespace with Vray for a new user cost less than c4d's basic program.
I'm not for one second saying truespace is better than c4d or it's the best program in the world, just that you have to pay a lot more to get to the next level of quality.
3D is like everything else, when you want pro quality or features you have to pay for it. Do we want truespace to cost over £1000? It doesn't have every feature and will probably alway lag behind in some area (even though it's ahead in others) but it has a hell of a lot for what you pay. |
Post by splinters // Jun 14, 2007, 8:46am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Not really knocking what you get for your money from Caligari and I remain a loyal user...perhaps I am really just despairing at the lack of options elsewhere (should you want to pay) for hair and fur that can integrate with tS...after all we did get an industry standard renderer in Vray... |
Post by jayr // Jun 14, 2007, 11:02am
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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i know what you mean, i'd love cloth sim and dynamic hair & fur as well as a few other things, i just know short of getting pirate software i'm not going to get them any time soon. It's hard to look at the fancy tools others have and not get a little jealous. |
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