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Sweep settings?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Sweep settings? // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by Tiles // May 24, 2007, 10:32pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Phew, everytime i open up TS 7.5 to create some content i end in making a screenshot ... :D
Maybe i am just blind, but where are the settings for Sweep, Bevel and such stuff? Where can i adjust the amount for Sweep and degrees for Bevel? Right click at the Bevel tool shows the Bevel tool panel in the Panel section. But there is nothing to change like amount or degrees.
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ext/sweepsettings.jpg |
Post by rrf // May 25, 2007, 2:26am
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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I don't mind Sweep being the way it is - I can use the Inference and measure Tools to do what I want with it on screen, but I agree with you on the new Bevel tool - I can't seem to get it to bevel - the edges are there but how do I get it to function as per the Model side?
rf |
Post by Tiles // May 25, 2007, 8:59pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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You mean there are no settings for bevel or sweep available? Unbelievable. Why are these buttons even available then? :o
Alright, back to TS 6.6 :rolleyes: |
Post by rrf // May 26, 2007, 4:32am
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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I think it's obvious - TS is in the middle of a Major transition, re-programmed from the ground up, the old 'bridged' to the new. Some things made it to this stage (7.5) - some things made it half-way (broken functionality). I think I understand most of the hard decisions Caligari must gone through on this..... you can't please everyone on such a Major change, especially If you know you can't get it all done in a reasonable amount of time, but you want your users to have something to work with. All this talk of 'they should have done this' and 'this is broke'....(besides the finding of real new bugs) would you rather have waited another year or two for the next release? Some people would - and some people wouldn't. Unfortunately, Caligari can't seem to win on this - darned if you do, darned if you don't. For myself, I'm happy to work with whatever they give me, happy to find new 'bugs', happy to wait for new developements, happy to play with the new tools (even if some of them are half-done)
You have to ask yourself - do you want to be right about all the 'brokeness' that you find (that Caligari probably already knows about and is part of the 'transition') or do you want to be Happy?
(Whew! didn't know I had that in me....)
rf |
Post by achilles // May 26, 2007, 5:36am
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achilles
Total Posts: 24
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All right, but have we to pay when they will resolve all those bugs, or it'll be free for us.... I hope the second. |
Post by stan // May 26, 2007, 6:42am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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they are poor excuses for tools they shouldn't even be there yet if they are unfinished
..bevel doesn't bevel, only create lines ..no sweep settings ..these are finished tools, not half done..unless we complain they will stay this way..:( they are not very useful and must be revised..I don't want to have to open another tool to finish a bevel or measure a sweep with a dimension tool that is also sub-standard..that tool only measures from where you were last not any fixed point which is the better method..:( |
Post by Tiles // May 26, 2007, 6:52am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Sure is TS 7.5 in the middle of transition. But installing some buttons without its fully needed functionality a wrong way to handle things. You shouldn't implement a tool half way. Either it is fully functional, or you better leave it out. It is useless then anyway. There is no "a bit" useage. You need the full functionality in most cases.
A Bevel button without a way to set its angle and amount to sweep is such an useless tool. I wouldn't mind when the Bevel button would be missing. Then i would know that this isn' t ready for useage. But when i see its button it better should work. Fully functional.
RRF, you scratch another chapter here. These are in fact hard times for Caligari, being in the middle of nowhere. But that's not the point. Half implemented tools leads to the fact that people complain about it. Which slows down things even more. Because now it needs time to discuss about it. Time that is missing for real bug hunting. Time that is missing at the users end to find out if this is a bug or a new feature or still missing. And leads to unhappy users. I am unhappy about this Bevel button now. |
Post by Bobbins // May 26, 2007, 7:20am
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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OK, if there was no sweep you'd be bitching that tS is rubbish because there is no sweep tool therefore it's useless "How can they release software with NO sweep tool..." etc.. No win.
Bevel can bevel not only polys but vertexes too - but that seems to have escaped you all. Something that wasn't possible before tS 7.5 and something some 'big leauge' programs are completely unable to do - but it's not good enough is it? The big leauge progs are lacking that full functionality and must therefore be uselsss, but that's OK because you're paying through the nose for their half implemented feature so it is alright.
I guess double standards are OK if you think you are getting value. |
Post by Tiles // May 26, 2007, 7:28am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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I know it's a loose/loose situation for Caligari. But i stay with my opinion that half implemented tools are ways worse than not implemented ones :) |
Post by Steinie // May 26, 2007, 7:43am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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If we would complain about "missing" tools YOU would say we have "Modeler". |
Post by stan // May 26, 2007, 7:46am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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it doesn't matter if it works on vertices it still doesn't work..it only creates lines .. is that is suppose to make us happy?
it should be called the 'flat bevel' tool, because thats what it does
who cares what other apps do or don't do. I care what truespace does ..maybe that escapes you Bobbins.. |
Post by rrf // May 26, 2007, 7:51am
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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I have actually no real complaints - I'm one of the patient few it seems....
And, Bobbins - I think the new pt, line, and face bevel functions are incredibly Cool. I, for one, applaud Caligari's efforts, and will wait while using what was given, (patiently, I might add :) ) for everything to come together eventually.
As always, just my opinion.
rf |
Post by Steinie // May 26, 2007, 8:29am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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rrf,
Would you be as patient if all the fixes were in 8.0 and you were charged for upgrading? If a tool is added to "New" side we expect it to be done. A lot of us have already paid for the "Old" side tools time and time again. |
Post by Bobbins // May 26, 2007, 9:26am
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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OK guys, you win - even when the customer is wrong. I'm going to stick to helping genuine complaints from people who have real problems understanding tS 7.x. It was fun but you got the better of me. Regards. |
Post by Steinie // May 26, 2007, 9:31am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Bobbins, First I didn't know you were an Caligari Employee. Second the Customer is never wrong. (Rules of being an Employee) Third I didn't know you wanted to win.
You've always given pretty good advise in the past and I for one always appreciated it but lighten up. |
Post by Bobbins // May 26, 2007, 10:02am
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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I'm not a Caligari Employee. I get paid nothing for helping. I only do it because I truly care about the software, unlike some.
I'll help people who really need assistance. But not more. |
Post by stan // May 26, 2007, 10:08am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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not everyone wears rose coloured glasses either..I don't think complaints = not caring... |
Post by transient // May 26, 2007, 3:10pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I didn't know that bevel worked on vertices as well - thanks for the tip. It also works on edges too. I'm enjoying 7.5's polytools immensely, I simply don't understand these venomous remarks aimed at caligari.
They're more than a match for their rivals.
Many of the recent bug posts belong in rants and raves, I think. |
Post by rrf // May 26, 2007, 4:02pm
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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If all the fixes were in 8.0, and I had to pay for the upgrade....for me it would depend on how much the upgrade was and how much money I had to spend. If I didn't have enough money, I would have to work with the software I have at the moment, until I could raise enough money to pay for the upgrade. I don't see any other choice with the scenario you came up with. I started with using TS4 - bought 5.2 mostly because of the deal at the time - upgraded to 6.6 for basically the same reason - skipped 7.0 because it was too expensive at the time (although I wanted it really badly) - and am glad to say I now own 7.5.
You have your opinions and I have mine - and the freedom to express them is what makes this Forum (and America) Great!
rf |
Post by Steinie // May 26, 2007, 4:20pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Both you users sound like TS is perfect for you and that is great! Everyone in this thread believe it or not Love it when you say nice things about the product. Once you use it as long as we have you too will be more demanding. (You call it venom) Have you seen the work Tiles does? He had to work with a faulty Bone system for years....YEARS. I think he has every right to be demanding. In spite of TS's flaws he created awesome animations.
We're the loyal users that put up with the bugs but stick around for that next fix. Caligari knows who we are. They know we care. We're glad you like it too. |
Post by rrf // May 26, 2007, 4:26pm
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rrf
Total Posts: 319
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I also Applaud your right to be as Demanding as you wish - and the freedom to express those demands
I guess this could go on and on, huh?
rf |
Post by SteveBe // May 26, 2007, 6:25pm
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SteveBe
Total Posts: 282
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Let's take a little walk down memory lane. As I recall when tS 7.0 was released
the loudest screams were about the animation & character animation tools.
Others were complaining about the lack of modeling tools as well, but in the end
Roman agreed that the CA and animation tools would be worked on as a priority
and that anyone who pre-order tS 7 would get a free upgrade to 7.5.
In the mean time many other features were added as well, some are
implimented quite well and some are in early stages.
IMHO Caligari has delivered an excellent upgrade to 7.11 and kept their promise.
If you want to have a positive impact on this software then post or continue
to post your ideas in the Feature Suggestion forum, try to make requests as clear as
possible, workflow is also very helpfull for developers understanding of requests.
Now this isn't directed at anyone, but if all you want is trueSpace 6.9 then you are going
to miss alot of what this software has to offer. |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 26, 2007, 6:34pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I actually find the "bevel" tool quite useful. The choice of name is a bit odd, but basically it functions like Wings3D's inset tool, which is very cool for working on SDS cages. The "bevel" tool's one click solution definitely beats scaling and lining up an extrude. I do wish it defaulted to making quads though...there have been a few times where about 10 steps later I realize that I forgot to check the box and have to manually create the edges to quadify the face... :(
I didn't know that this tool worked on edges and points so thanks for that Bobbins!
I've been working almost completely in Workspace since proTeam got access to the 7.5 beta and I for one will be very happy when Model side and all it's legacy limitations and bugginess can be cut loose.
The only two real complaints I have about the new PE tools is that it would be useful to have local (face) transforms during extrude and edge extruding.
-Jack. |
Post by spacekdet // May 26, 2007, 6:39pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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I demand your right to applaud.
I wish your right to demand your freedom were applauded.
Jeez, you're right, this could go on and on!
I could not wrap my feeble monkey brain around the concept of beveling a vertice until Bobbins explained it as 'turning a point into a poly'.
Surely someone can find a use for this.
New, crazy-smart features like this are good, (and here comes the but) but the bevel tool sure still feels rough and unfinished.
I'd expect it to sweep/extrude, not just draw a new polygon onto a face. A polygon, by the way, that is not connected to it's 'parent' by edges. Having to select a second tool (add edge) and then a third (sweep) to finish the operation is more than a little clunky.
I guess I don't see the advantages to having the tool operate like this as opposed to the simple, straightforward way it works in all previous versions.
If there are more settings and functions that are to be added in the future, then I'm just going to have to be patient enough to wait for them. There's just no way I'd call this tool 'finished' in it's present state. That's genuine.
I'm experimenting with the tool now as I write this, trying it out on faces and edges, and I have to admit it's a bit baffling as to what it's doing, or why. Is it too clever by half?
Engineers, developers, I'm a dumb monkey in a spaceship.
Don't ever forget the acronym: KISS: Keep It Simple Stupid. |
Post by Tiles // May 26, 2007, 9:36pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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A bit offtopic. But i get the feeling that this goes in the wrong direction.
I get paid nothing for helping. I only do it because I truly care about the software, unlike some.
Come on. This sounds like every complainer hates TS. I am still here because i love this software. But that doesn't stop me from naming things. Especially when such things hinders me to do my work. As told in another thread, it gets dangerous when i stop complaining. Because that means i stop even thinking about it and use another software for my needs that does the job.
And i name things because i pretty much care about TS. How will Caligari get its feedback when everybody is told to shut up?
You don't get paid? Hmm. I have written endless threads in the past to help other people out when it came to trueSpace. Not this often here. But in the german community (Which is dramatically shrunk by the way. Now guess why. They stopped complaining ... ). And with tutorials. And by countless mails. I am "paid" when just one of those help seekers got its needed answer. And i never cared when the answer was something against TS then instead a "thank you for the help". I did my best to help out. And maybe another reader, not the asker, gets its needed answer by this.
Why does it bring you down all the time when somebody complains? TS is work in progress. And so there is loots of stuff to complain. This is nothing personal against you. So please don't make it to something personal. I still respect you and am happy about every help and support you gave me in the past. Having another opinion doesn't mean that i hate you ;) |
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