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makehuman skeleton
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makehuman skeleton // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by Dragneye // Jun 23, 2007, 8:14am
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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I imported a body from makeHuman as an .obj file and just can't get a skeleton to stick to it. Is there some limitation in tS having to do with poly count when adding a skeleton to an object or is it my noviceness? The poly count of object is almost 11,000
I have not added a Subdivision layer as I prefer to keep poly count low but it still don't work. :confused: |
Post by Forcemaster2000 // Jun 23, 2007, 9:04am
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Forcemaster2000
Total Posts: 130
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Make sure your skeleton is selected, then click (attach skeleton to skin) tool
Then be sure to click on the mesh you are attaching it to
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j239/Forcemaster2000/screengrab01.jpg
Poly count shouldn't matter, although more poly's would always be better for smoother movement of the mesh after the skeleton is attached.
Hope this helps! |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 23, 2007, 7:29pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Forcemaster Thank you. I have been doin that - 'attach skin...', 'attach object...', and anything else I could think of but it never worked. So after reading your reply, I tried once again, and, it worked! Now whatta ya think abt that!? Evidentally you have the Force. :-)
It worked while my object was in wireframe (which I rarely use), so maybe that was the trick.
As a followup... do you guys find it easier to create a skeleton outside a complex object, size it right, then insert and attach, or within the object as you go? When there's a high polycount seems to make it hard for me to work on a skeleton within an object. Or does anyone have a better work procedure when working with skeletons? |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 23, 2007, 10:59pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I've attached several makehuman models to tS bones with reasonable results. I think that tS bones are easier to use with lower poly figures simply because there are less vertices to assign. This dosen't mean that you can't use higher poly skins, just that there is probably more work involved in assigning or reasigning vertices. I found that once the vertices were correctly associated with the relevent bones the skeleton handled the polys with no problems.
The build skeleton tools are so easy to use that building inside or utside you skin is equally as easy. I found building inside was my preference because I could see where to place the jnts more easily. Check out the manual on the different skeleton visibility options - the poly count shouldn't really make any difference when actually constructing the skele, setting jnt limits and setting locks and handles.
One tip which I'm passing on from TomG - grab an already rigged skeleton from the Tank Girl or other rigged models in the library and simply adjust it and add to it as required. This can save some time in the initial setup of your rig. Hope this helps |
Post by trueBlue // Jun 23, 2007, 11:34pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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What I like to do is set the character's Render Attributes to simi transparent and Edge Opacity lower before adding bones.
Sometimers no Edges but Points. |
Post by Forcemaster2000 // Jun 24, 2007, 3:02am
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Forcemaster2000
Total Posts: 130
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Glad to hear you're getting results Dragneye!
Personally I like to build the skeleton inside the mesh like Wizard says, it's easier to get the joints where you want them. It's possible that your having better luck with the mesh set to wireframe because TS 7.51 is a bit of a resource hog! My computer just meets the minimum requirements and I've found that TS is quite "buggy" on it. I just bought a new computer for my wife and installed TS 7.51 on it and found it much more stable and easy to work on. Guess I'm going to have to get ME a new computer next!
Good luck! :jumpy: |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 24, 2007, 6:15pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Thank you all for the input, and insights... and encouragement. It ALL helps!
Ahhhh... an artist's learning curve is never done. Or is it 'an artist's work is never done'? Or is it 'a...' :)
Thanx again folks |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 25, 2007, 11:09pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hi Dragneye,
I also use Makehuman for stuff on occasion but haven't attempted what you have yet so couldn't offer any help with that... glad to see you're having success though now. Makehuman is a great trueSpace companion tool for sure.
I just wanted to share something with you that I had recently heard about Makehuman, that they have additional expression settings available in the Makehuman directory (after installation) which are not immediately obvious, ie: they don't show up in the menus unless you load them there.
Thought that might be handy to know, and I'm glad to see you're succeeding with this effort. :)
All the best,
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dfrog // Jun 26, 2007, 7:31am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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Wow I never heard of this make human program before. It is very cool. How do you folks get clothes on the humans from this program? That feature doesnt seem to work. Of course I could build clothes but for production purposes of assembling a forensic scene it would save a lot of time to choose from a library. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 26, 2007, 5:08pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Wow I never heard of this make human program before. It is very cool. How do you folks get clothes on the humans from this program? That feature doesnt seem to work. Of course I could build clothes but for production purposes of assembling a forensic scene it would save a lot of time to choose from a library.
Dragneye may have a lot more experience with this than me, I've only discovered MH a few months ago, but for what it's worth here's one method.
You can bring MH exported OBJ models into any high-end 3D program, then (1) select only the polys close to where clothing coverage should be, (2) invert your selection and delete those polys, (3) save that remaining mesh under a new name like "shirt_01" so that you can safely load the first model inside the same 3d space as you work with "shirt_01," then play with the tedious tasks of (4) reducing polycount on "shirt_01" and (5) manually altering vertex positions to approximate clothes.
MH is slated for a new beta at the end of July which may include the clothing feature currently disabled as well as others, there's a lot on their table though in terms of conflicting priorities so we'll see.
I was responding to the "you folks" part of the question, but again though, Dragneye may have a better method or idea so check back here on that.
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 29, 2007, 8:21pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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No, 3dvisuals dude, I can't say I'm any good at this yet, so for starters I'd like to TY for the technique. I'm trying to work on the 'Elegant Swans' animation, and any time-saving idea or tool I will use. Now there won't be any clothes in this one but it will come in handy in the future.
Trueblue, I'll definitely look into that... TY |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 30, 2007, 4:03am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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OK then, there are a couple of little things I could add here in relation to my own personal "trueSpace Pipeline" that may help you guys somewhat with creating clothes for Makehuman model exports intended for trueSpace rigging and animation/rendering.
First off though, many of us here have been 3d modeling for quite a few years and it must be said that no ~ONE~ 3d modeling application, be it Max, Silo, Wings3D, trueSpace, Blender, Lightwave, Rhino, Moment of Inspiration (MoI3D), Nendo, or whatever... "does it all."
It's also true that each 3d modeling application has it's own set of unique strengths and weaknesses in relation to workflow, toolsets, and i/o formats, so in my opinion no serious 3d modeler should exclusively attempt to do ~everything~ in only one of these applications at the cost of remaining ignorant to the potential workflow integration advantages of utilizing several simultaneously. I am a dedicated trueSpace user now, but not exclusively.
All that said, I use numerous 3d programs in my own workflow. Many specific modeling functions (point editing, nurbs work, poly work such as insetting and edge extrusion, etcetera) can be utilized with different approaches inside many of the programs we all use of course, and like everybody else I tend to focus on mastering these functions within whichever one of these programs offers the best balance between specific comprehensive capabilities and overall workflow speed and intuitiveness.
trueSpace 7.51's toolset is genuinely astounding to me in it's comprehensiveness and it's uniqueness. Neverthelesss, for me at least, still struggling with the immense learning curve involved in each of these trueSpace toolsets, turning to other programs for the rapid creation of certain aspects of my numerous simultaneous modeling projects and integrating the end result into trueSpace for final fine tuning and output is the way I will be going for quite a while... until I eventually master trueSpace that is.
"Clothes creation" here is a good example. Certainly trueSpace is all anyone needs to create anything in 3d and to do so very well, but that requires mastery of the truespace toolsets. Nurbs are perfect for the rapid creation and development of clothing and other similarly organic-flowing forms, but I simply cannot afford to shell out any more money (at all) at the moment to purchase a Caligari Nurbs training course.
So accordingly... here's this great nurbs program which I've invested serious money in, trueSpace7.51, sitting on my computer while I turn to creating nurbs models in MOI3D instead. I can whip up a nurbs Gordons surface with 3 simple gestures of my wacom stylus in MOI3D and "poof" there's a new 3D shirt model (from imported reference image backgrounds) for my Makehuman models to pop into trueSpace for rigging and rendering. I can also pop that MOI3D model via OBJ format into Wings3D and use the very easy and intuitive Tweak Vertices toolset to adjust any aspect of that model in seconds. Then with Luuv inside trueSpace I can import that nearly-finished OBJ model from Wings3D.
Am I happy about this? No, but it's ~very~ fast and easy. Can it be done just as easily in trueSpace? Probably, but again I can't afford to invest any more money into any TS courses to find out. In my case I also, truth be told, simply don't have the time to learn how to do these things in trueSpace when I've already mastered them to various extents within other 3d authoring programs previously. My learning time must be prioritized.
Don't get me wrong here though, in my honest opinion NONE of the alternative 3d modeling programs can even hold a candle to trueSpace7.51 when it comes to many things, the most important of which for me is the creation, development, and deployment of virtual 3D Worlds. In trueSpace7.51 I can rapidly create incredible immersive and interactive 3D environments to sell worldwide, and having already built over 50 of them I also fully intend to lease "trueServe" hosting software, invest in T3 Lines and Servers, and go from "Semi-Retirement" to "Constant-Vacationing-Retirement" (think Tahiti here) with the proceeds of selling these worlds over the next five years. You can too now if you set your mind to it thanks to Caligari. All these other 3d programs for me at least are merely "companion programs" to my "trueSpace7.51 pipeline" and will never be more than that to me at all. Caligari is definitely "future focused," and so am I.
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 30, 2007, 7:03am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I have a different approach to making clothes for MH figures. MH has a wide variety of 'fantasy morphs' which allow you to make simple collars, sleeves, trouser legs etc. I use these to create the basic (very basic) definitions for the clothing and import the resulting MH .obj into tS using the LUUV plugin.
Next I use tS model side paint tools to paint basic colours to define what is 'shirt' what is 'pants' and so on.
I'm sure the new PE tools in Workspace will be handy for this but I've not yet used them in this context. The soft-select/soft paint-tools look particularly promising I think).
Then it's a matter of selecting and scaling faces and vertices to create the appropropriate clothing look. I often select the 'shirt front' for example, (by painting the required faces in some basic reference colour and selecting with the 'Free Select / CNTL key to select everything of same texture) and add a small sweep.
It can get fiddly and tedious but has the advantage of keeping the figure and the clothing asll as one simgle mesh making for easier rigging and posing with no issues with skin suddenly appearing through the clothing at an unwanted point.
Hope this helps. |
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