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Workspace/Vray glass: redux
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Workspace/Vray glass: redux // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by weaveribm // Jul 23, 2007, 2:13am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Please can someone tell me how to create glass in Workspace and Vray renders from Vray?
I had it once in Modelspace and I thought I'd got out but Workspace drew me in again :)
I know to use Vray Materials but there's only a transparent material that I can't get to be nice glass
I'm prepared to work in the LE to get real glass material so you can judge I'm serious about it. Glass IOR equals 1.37 see I mean it :)
Workspace continues to impress.
Peter |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 23, 2007, 2:20am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Use the eyedropper icon to bring up the ME.
Double click on the reflectance ball in the ME. Select glass, fresnel, or mapped phong. Set diffuse to 0. Up the transmission to near 1 or near 1 (.95 or so), set your IOR.
Then make sure your object is selected and click the funnel icon to apply the material.
Also cool is the Wrapped Mirror Map which will let you fake the reflections for a surface. Say you want to reflect in the windows a building across the street that really isn't in the scene ;)
-Jack. |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 23, 2007, 7:39am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Thanks Jack!
Is there a way to strip out all the shaders and get a default shader please Jack? I can't simply get glass that way it seems too dark even when it's a very very thin glass pane
I can't see anything happen when I hit the funnel at any time that needs fixing, no depressing-button visual feedback and the parameters keep changing around
There's Vray glass and there's lots of ways to change parameters in a few places... so I'm hoping to set the ME to default and then change one parameter at a time to bring order out of (self-induced) chaos
I see the Color parameter changes the appearance of the glass even... so with so many places for an idiot like me to change parameters I need to bolt everything down - hope that makes sense :)
Otherwise if it was so simple I would be looking at it and I'm not generally a stupid person. An idiot I'll give you that but I mean well
I had a lovely cube of clear glass right after following your how-to Jack, then it went grey rather than clear in Workspace when I flattened it for a 2mm glass pane and I can't get back to it. I thought I was clear but it dragged me in again :)
Peter |
Post by Steinie // Jul 23, 2007, 8:08am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Until Jack gets back to you check this discussion out:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=706&page=2&highlight=vray+glass |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 23, 2007, 8:20am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Thanks Steinie. :)
Workspace DX9 view is not an accurate preview of what the material will render as. When working with glass you just have to do a lot of test renders. ;)
The feed back thing is something that I've been complaining about for a while, too. I'm hoping that the ME will get a major overhaul in the next upgrade.
Here's the glass material I posted for my rook SMC entry:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=39318&postcount=19
You can see the settings I used buy dragging the material onto an object then using the eyedropper on that object.
To reset a material back to defaults, right click where the 4 non-responsive icons in the ME are and select reset from the pop-up menu.
Let me know if I missed anything.
-Jack. |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 23, 2007, 10:32am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Yes thanks Steinie :)
I found what was happening. When I went to Modelspace to Add As the glass to the photo frame the glass immediately lost its texture after the two were made Children or Peers or one of those two. They stick together like East End families anyway which is all that matters :)
I remembered chat in here about Encapsulating in Workspace and that now works fine no lost texture ta both :)
But I discovered something serendipitously, my glass is glowing white hot (until I fix it) and this glowing material is exactly what I want for a glowing radio dial
Peter |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 29, 2007, 7:43am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Don't want to start another Workspace glass thread but still in trouble forgive me-
Please what's the trick to seeing glass in Workspace as almost-invisible real glasstype glass?
I'm sure I saw it once but whatever I do with materials, glass remains stubbornly dark-solid in Workspace. I know how to set glass material, using Vray Pure Glass material here. I think I know what I'm doing famous last words :)
The glass is fine and see-through, reflective in Modelspace.
To me it seems as if settings don't 'stick' when saving a scene or moving from Modelspace to Workspace and back. And some scenes appear to partially revert to earlier scenes with objects long deleted reappearing in later scenes based on earlier scenes
Peter
This from Workspace's Vray Render To File option after rendering
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/Mington/VrayRenderToFileGlassInVrayRenderVi.jpg
Same view but from Workspace's Vray render saved from the bottom-right Render to File function
This is how the glass looks in Workspace. But it's transparent in Modelspace (above)
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/Mington/workspaceglass.jpg |
Post by Emma // Jul 29, 2007, 10:56am
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Emma
Total Posts: 344
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Since a picture tells more than a thousand words, take a look at the sample I prepared. check the params and notice that not glass, but rather fresnel gives the result ( left one ) you seem to be looking for.
Notice also that lights, your view angle and reflection also have some influence in coincidence with the object you are looking at. Here colorful picture, part of the wall and part of the floor. The transmission param in the left glass(fresnel shader) sample is the one that makes it almost invisible. You have to change it in small steps, render , check and probably rerun that procedure a few times.
- It's correct that the glass is black in Workspace cause it's no DX9 mat.
- in such cases I use transparent mode when working inside Workspace
- my sample render is done with High quality, these levels make a difference too |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 29, 2007, 1:58pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Since a picture tells more than a thousand words, take a look at the sample I prepared. check the params and notice that not glass, but rather fresnel gives the result ( left one ) you seem to be looking for.
That's very kind of you Emma thanks!
Fresnel yes I know his-or-her name from the Fresnel lens. Extremely interesting thank you. Phew I was worried that Workspace had a problem. It's only me again :)
Notice also that lights, your view angle and reflection also have some influence in coincidence with the object you are looking at. Here colorful picture, part of the wall and part of the floor. The transmission param in the left glass(fresnel shader) sample is the one that makes it almost invisible. You have to change it in small steps, render , check and probably rerun that procedure a few times
Thanks - there's a good word for that process. Iteration that's it and believe me I was iterating/grinding for hours on something that could never work you're a lifesaver :)
It's correct that the glass is black in Workspace cause it's no DX9 mat.
Ahah- got it now Emma cheers so that's what it is. You know that warm feeling you get when you know something being awkward for days is going to work next time? A weight has been lifted, please find cold beers attached and no jokes about warm beer or why isn't it a large gin and tonic :)
You've made me think Emma, maybe the floor's reflection which currently is being none for 0.178 and full for 0.179 (another tricky problem discovered after countless stepwise iterations) is also being caused by the floor being non-DX9 (D3D) material. Another Vray material perhaps. Very helpful info thanks!!
I am only just finding out about textures and materials after playing with POV years ago which I think was on the Atari 520ST. I am much changed since then but 3D stuff remains perfect and pristine. And quite possibly re-addictive :)
Peter |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 29, 2007, 11:46pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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That works great thanks Emma
Maybe Workspace glass cannot show reflections yet though?
I have Reflections= at a high number for now-transparent window glass but see no Workspace reflections or reflections in Workspace animations. I must check that this is not possible yet? Not a big thing, I am very happy now and thankful with real Workspace glass. Workspace is starting to look nice now and reflections will be the cherry on the cake if they appear in a later TS version
Peter |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 30, 2007, 4:57am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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DX9 doesn't support hardware rendered reflection. I'm not sure if DX 10 does either, btw. You can fake it with a custom DX shader. Parva or one of the guys who work with the DX 9 shaders can probably link an example on how to do it.
-Jack. |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 30, 2007, 5:20am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Thanks Jack that's fine, no worries and hardware-rendered reflections will turn up in later TS versions I bet. I'd buy it! :)
On not being lazy Jack because I know I'm high maintenance* right now - I've discovered that Workspace will indeed run Clothmotion animations via the older Scene Editor. Which was a pleasant surprise, now I see more reasons why Workspace and Modelspace are needed
I found I couldn't simply Copy the clothmotion's vertex animation keyframes into the Workspace animation desk "Cannot copy that stuff to the clipboard, the SE clipboard doesn't support them" (or similar message) and almost gave up but luckily I had the SE open and bingowoot :)
Will Workspace have plugins I wonder?
Peter
*and feeling suitably guilty about it |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 30, 2007, 7:09am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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The bridge and 6.6 KFE found in model-side does allow for animation via the old 6.6 TSX plugins. That's one of the reasons why dropping the bridge and support for model side is such a big issue.
It'll likely be some years before we start to see real-time calculated reflections. It'll likely require nVidia and ATI to implement hardware that can do it first. ;)
There's some rumors about a new 7.x SDK but currently the only way to make plug-ins is via the scripting in the LE.
No worries Peter, doesn't mean I'm always right, but I'm definitely happy to help out! :)
-Jack. |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 30, 2007, 8:18am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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You may yet regret offering a three-dimensional hand Jack. No it's a still, no need for the fourth dimension physics buffs. Hang about that's the animation panel thinking on it. So that's why it's called 4D :)
Stuck at Workspace animation now (challenges challenges lol) but I must not multiply entities without good reason as per Occam, will reply in the proper thread. Suffice it to say that without you and other extremely helpful and patient TS experienced users we'd be dead in the water thanks!
Peter |
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