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Critical Reflectivity setting
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Critical Reflectivity setting // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by weaveribm // Jul 25, 2007, 11:48pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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I have a Simbiont shader floorboards-flooring and I've found that I can add shininess to the wooden floor
I'm using the Gooch shader and trying to cut the shine down, get it just right, changing Reflectivity little by little experimenting
But I'm stuck after hours and hours and would appreciate help please.
At Reflectivity=0.174 there are no reflections. None at all.
Then at Reflectivity=0.175 the texture becomes very very shiny...
Back to 0.174, no reflections. Up to 0.175, much too shiny. Back to 0.174, no reflections. I need 0.1745 :) (pre-edit: oh no is there another digit available in there? aaggh I'm at work)
This critical-parameter thing sounds as if it's a known problem caused by me and my TS rookieness, can anyone suggest a protocol please for getting Simbiont textured waxy flooring just right?
Rendering in Vray
Peter |
Post by Changa // Jul 26, 2007, 12:22am
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Changa
Total Posts: 187
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As far as I know Vray does not properly work with Simbiont which are LW shaders. You can render Simbiont materials with LW and then use images as a colour shader in Vray. |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 26, 2007, 12:56am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Thanks for your help Changa. Simbiont appears to work ok under 7.51 and Vray though, the texture renders fine and I can add the Gooch shader and see the reflectivity or not. I don't want to ditch the Simbiont parquet-like floor because it looks very nice and I'm hoping it'll be a beginner's thing, the sensitivity of the Reflectivity parameter making all-or-nothing shininess I hope is a clue
But please Changa if it is as you say this sounds like a fix ta - "You can render Simbiont materials with LW and then use images as a colour shader in Vray"
Is this rendering the Simbiont shader to a plane and then filling the screen with the plane and taking a screenshot to render the floor texture from the image?
I'm very much a beginner please go easy on me :)
Peter |
Post by Changa // Jul 26, 2007, 6:40am
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Changa
Total Posts: 187
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1. Apply your simbiont shader onto a plane.
2. Render to file using LW and proper lighting for instance from the top view.
3. Switch renderer to Vray
4. In model side (I am not very familiar with workspace) open Matrial editor and apply your rendered image file as a Texture map. You can use both yellow (color shaders library) or red (image browser) ways to do this.
5. Add proper reflectance shader
6. Apply material onto your surface and render using Vray. |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 26, 2007, 6:51am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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That's very kind of you thanks Changa!
Peter |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 31, 2007, 11:45pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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I've now made the (cube) floor from DX9 material starting with DXBlankMaterial on advice not to mix and match materials, textures
Then I texture it with an image, Arroway parquet nothing complicated.
The reflection parameter is still hyper-critical whatever I do with the other settings and I've tried tweaking all of them over hours. Just one increment or decrement of the reflection parameter means all-or-nothing reflections, 0.220 none and 0.221 full reflections for example
I do know that it could be me but surely reflections are a simple matter and ought to be adjustable... are no bells ringing, is no one else having this problem rendering from Vray/GI?
Peter |
Post by Jack Edwards // Aug 1, 2007, 3:53am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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this sounds like a bug to me Peter, what shader are you using? Also can you post a scene file?
-Jack. |
Post by weaveribm // Aug 1, 2007, 5:04am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Thanks Jack. I've started a bare scene here in work (shh!) :) and I'm getting somewhere now while working on writing it up to ask the question again but with more hard evidence - but I am getting somewhere now I don't have the pressure of trying to handle the whole scene with the occasional crash on dropping a Vray Reflectance shader on to the floor. I'm sure it's not a bug it will be me again, I'll persevere and thanks for your kind support mate
But while you're here Jack I think it was you who mentioned the Wrapped Mirror Map Vray Reflectance shader and that we should try it. When I used it (in working on this reflections thing) I really liked what I saw, with the parquet flooring sort-of bump-mapping. Bit of a shock it looks very nice but you know how it's impossible to find those settings again :) - not really I carefully saved the scene at that point he prayed
But generally please, is there something of the bump-map associated with the wrapped mirror map shader type? Is a bump-map automatically generated from the imagemap?
At the time I took the shot below, on changing a setting (never to be found again lol) I could see what looked like crop circle style shading, some image seemed to be underlying the floor and bump-mapping render, two slightly dark circles that disappeared as I changed some parameter. I might have a shot of that at home. I'm wondering if there's an imagemap associated with that shader? How does it work please it looks very interesting :)
Peter
At last subtle reflections
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/Mington/OnFinals/woodenfloorreflectionsparametersnot.jpg
The strange and very wonderful Vray wrapped mirror map (no bump-mapping)
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/Mington/OnFinals/MovingOnWrappedMirrorMap1.jpg |
Post by Jack Edwards // Aug 1, 2007, 9:49am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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From what I understand of it, the wrapped mirror map shader is just an environment mapping shader. Basically it should fake the reflection with the bitmap that is selected.
I don't think it's been tested much so it's possible that it's not working correctly...:confused:
But it does seem to make cool looking results. :)
Edit: oh yeah, btw, make sure you've UV mapped the object since it is a "mapped" shader.
-Jack. |
Post by weaveribm // Aug 1, 2007, 10:31pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Thanks very much Jack and with Vray1.52 out today woohoo :)
make sure you've UV mapped the object since it is a "mapped" shader
I've realised Jack that an imagemap can be used to create a bumpmap (I think so anyway) and a bumpmap of the parquet floor will be what I'm after to highlight the edges of the tiles, I think I must must have accidentally created a bumpmap in that image. Beginner sorry mate and not intending to confuse <blush> thanks again!
Peter |
Post by Jack Edwards // Aug 2, 2007, 8:36am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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VRay doesn't handle bump maps as well as I'd like but it does do a great job with normal maps. So probably a good idea to convert your bumps to normal maps and use that instead. ;)
-Jack. |
Post by weaveribm // Aug 2, 2007, 9:14am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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convert your bumps to normal maps
Thanks Jack will have a bash at that. I know what a normal is it's a vector at right angles to a point on a surface I think. But a normal map hmm :)
It could be the placebo effect of course but after installing Vray 1.52 and adjusting that awkward critical all-or-nothing Vray reflection parameter my troublesome varnished-wood reflections seem to act as expected, fuzzy-not-glassy reflections at long last. At this point one utters a mild woot :)
Peter
Very Low quality around three minutes thanks again for Vray 1.52 Caligari team!
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/Mington/OnFinals/WoohooVrayReflectionsAreFixedAndMuc.png |
Post by Jack Edwards // Aug 2, 2007, 9:56am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Edges on the desk and chalkboard look a bit sharp.
Definitely looking like it's getting there.
It'd be cool to have some volumetrics but you'd have to fake it with alpha mapped planes since VRay doesn't have volumetrics yet, also might not be worth the effort to get it looking right...
The background looks a bit cartoony compared with the interior.
To convert to normal maps you need to use the nVidia plug-ins for PhotoShop or download the normal map plug-in for GIMP.
You can find more info here:
http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=10156
Here's the links for the plug-ins for GIMP:
http://nifelheim.dyndns.org/%7ecocidius/normalmap/
http://nifelheim.dyndns.org/~cocidius/dds/
Edit:
Almost forgot this awesome Normal map baking prog:
http://www.xnormal.net/
-Jack. |
Post by weaveribm // Aug 2, 2007, 10:07am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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The background looks a bit cartoony
It's an ingame shot (back projection if possible) from a flight-sim 1946 (I fly online with a virtual-RAF squadron) we're stuck with it or- actually build the kit. Please don't say go for it! :)
Sharp edges thanks quite right Jack, I'd chamfered the walls' edges but missed those
Outside is where the flagpole and rippling RAF flag will fly one day <rosary beads>
This is a frame from a flythrough btw I'm not making a still we're in da movies :)
Thanks for normals info too Jack precious info!
Peter |
Post by transient // Aug 2, 2007, 2:08pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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You could try my workaround for volumetrics in vray. It's a few posts down in this forum. |
Post by weaveribm // Aug 2, 2007, 10:31pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Thanks transient
Peter |
Post by weaveribm // Aug 5, 2007, 8:13am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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I got to the bottom of this eventually so far so good.
I'd been dragging the Vray Reflectance icon from the panel and dropping it on to the material
This seemed a fairly transparent operation in keeping with the Workspace theme of drag and drop
But now I only select the object and click on the Vray Reflectance icon- which I imagine is what normal people do :)
Before discovering this er, feature :) I would drop the icon, system memory would go up to >1.5GB and then bad things happened. Perfectly fine here now at around 500MB avoiding the crash-provoking drag-and-dropping the reflectance shader icon on the object
Something for Caligari programmers to look at maybe as it's fairly reliable crashbait
Many many thanks to all who helped out!
Peter |
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