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DX9 Shader question
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DX9 Shader question // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 2, 2007, 10:04pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Calling all DX9 shader experts....
I'm slowly getting my head around using the LE as a Material Editor for the DX9 shaders. The manual helpfully suggests experimenting with different shaders and different settings to see what happens - and whilst this is a good suggestion it is also something like trying to make a strawberry shortcake by experimenting with whatever ingredients one has in the pantry! But I have guests coming over tonight and need a strawberry shortcake recipe!
There are several features I'm accustomed to when using the trusty old LW shaders and I want to find the equivalent features (assuming they actually exist!) in the DX shaders. I want to make a material for an object (actually a sky sphere) that has a high ambient factor - so it's bright but doesn't actually cast light into the scene. In addition, this material needs to NOT receive any shadows.
Any help or suggestions gratefully appreciated.
Thanx in advance
Wzrd;) |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 3, 2007, 7:24am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Well Wizard the answer appears to be in using the constant shaders!
I've still not yet figured out how to tell something to not receive shadows but after 9 hoiurs of experimentation and repeated texturing of a poor defenceless sphere I've got a result that I'm more than happy with! Yay! |
Post by Morgan // Aug 3, 2007, 10:17am
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Morgan
Total Posts: 138
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Well Wizard the answer appears to be in using the constant shaders!
I've still not yet figured out how to tell something to not receive shadows but after 9 hoiurs of experimentation and repeated texturing of a poor defenceless sphere I've got a result that I'm more than happy with! Yay!
Admittedly this may have changed in tS 7.5 (I haven't looked yet), but I think shadow-catching and shadow-casting are specific to the object itself, not the texture. |
Post by trueBlue // Aug 3, 2007, 11:20am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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You will find Cast and Receive Shadows options in the Advanced aspect of the Object Render Attributes panel.
Select your object in Workspace.
From the stack in the Scene panel, select the Show Object Attribs button.
An Object Render Attributes panel will appear.
Switch from Default aspect to Advanced aspect. |
Post by weaveribm // Aug 3, 2007, 1:34pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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From the stack in the Scene panel
What's the Scene panel please trueBlue?
Peter |
Post by trueBlue // Aug 3, 2007, 2:31pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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In the stack within Settings is the Scene panel.
7794
Select the Show Object Atrribs button above.
7795
Select the Default menu and then Advanced above.
7796 |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 4, 2007, 3:21am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hi W!ZARD,
I'm wondering about a certain technical aspect of Locally Modified DX9 Shaders (ie: Caligari DX9 textures where I modified the original by substituting my own images via the LE for "diffuse texture," etc.), and that is whether a DX9 texture I have modified may be sent in a zipfile to another person and come out looking like it did going in, or will it need to be "archived" in Modelside first to retain those inherent image mods.
In the case of Vray texture mods which I made in the past and uploaded here that was a problem until trueBlue stepped in and suggested the solution of using Modelside's "archive" method to save a scene with a model (I used a sphere) having that texture (and it's mods) applied. When one does this with Vray textures as trueBlue suggested it works perfectly, saving all inherent sub-images/textures contained in the mods along with the Vray settings (even GI images!) to the same "archive" sub-directory bearing the same name as the scene file.
I'm hoping that since trueBlue is helping you here with this he may also know the answer to whether this same "archive" method is necessary for accurately transferring modified DX9 textures as it is in fact for Vray texture mods.
If I have a killer DX9 texture I've modded and can't transfer it to you or anyone else correctly it wouldn't be much help at all to anyone.
I know that I can place these modded DX9 textures in multi-user shared space accurately because I've done it while Norm, Stan, and 3dfrog were with me in there one Thursday night, so at least that works, although I have no idea whether the texture persisted after I left shared space or required a live path to the inherent modded sub images on my computer at home.
So many questions....
Welcome to my world.;)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by weaveribm // Aug 4, 2007, 4:25am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Thanks twice trueBlue you've also located the Show Backfaces function for me which I keep looking everywhere for, I found it once completely by accident and it stopped a (commercial) phone model from showing in Workspace as half-invisible
I have no idea whether the texture persisted after I left shared space or required a live path to the inherent modded sub images on my computer at home
Sounds like something out of Edgar Allen Poe meets the Jetsons dude, the garden gate creaks and a small glowing package crawls up the path towards your front door. Slithers :)
Peter |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 4, 2007, 7:48am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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I have no idea whether the texture persisted after I left shared space or required a live path to the inherent modded sub images on my computer at home
Sounds like something out of Edgar Allen Poe meets the Jetsons dude, the garden gate creaks and a small glowing package crawls up the path towards your front door. Slithers :)
Peter
Nevermore.... nevermore.... ;)
Well Peter, I can't find that post I think I read where you asked whether that Electrostatic Device which Norm and Stan were dabbling with in the truePlace Thursday Night Chat Room was in fact an electrostatic device, but it certainly appeared to me that it was... filings attached and all!
It was so interesting to see there suspended in mid air (and it's still there, I just checked) that I took a screenshot of it for you and here it is below.
Also, it turns out that my (huge) modified DX9 marble texture on a sphere did in fact persist... it's also still there and a screenshot of that follows as well.
Good thing too, I was starting to get paranoid about that slithering....:D
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by weaveribm // Aug 5, 2007, 9:48am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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filings attached and all!
Wow dude. I haven't said that since 1968 :)
Now what can be made from rubber and iron hmm. I think we're on the golf course here. What was that material called that made false teeth and golf balls, an early plastic... gutta percha. That's a variety of Malayan rubber I'll be bound :)
(and Prodigy posted an image of a golfball in the rough. Roughish) :)
Quite a sandpit developing, very interesting and pre-Matrix seeds are sowing. Will a serial killer join your online group and virtually dismember Roman in a render-rage incident. Whom should we suspect :)
Ooh splinters heads as men standing in an Identity Parade copyright Mington 2007
Peter |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 6, 2007, 8:39pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Hi W!ZARD,
I'm wondering about a certain technical aspect of Locally Modified DX9 Shaders (ie: Caligari DX9 textures where I modified the original by substituting my own images via the LE for "diffuse texture," etc.), and that is whether a DX9 texture I have modified may be sent in a zipfile to another person and come out looking like it did going in, or will it need to be "archived" in Modelside first to retain those inherent image mods.
In the case of Vray texture mods which I made in the past and uploaded here that was a problem until trueBlue stepped in and suggested the solution of using Modelside's "archive" method to save a scene with a model (I used a sphere) having that texture (and it's mods) applied. When one does this with Vray textures as trueBlue suggested it works perfectly, saving all inherent sub-images/textures contained in the mods along with the Vray settings (even GI images!) to the same "archive" sub-directory bearing the same name as the scene file.
I'm hoping that since trueBlue is helping you here with this he may also know the answer to whether this same "archive" method is necessary for accurately transferring modified DX9 textures as it is in fact for Vray texture mods.
If I have a killer DX9 texture I've modded and can't transfer it to you or anyone else correctly it wouldn't be much help at all to anyone.
I know that I can place these modded DX9 textures in multi-user shared space accurately because I've done it while Norm, Stan, and 3dfrog were with me in there one Thursday night, so at least that works, although I have no idea whether the texture persisted after I left shared space or required a live path to the inherent modded sub images on my computer at home.
So many questions....
Welcome to my world.;)
- 3dvisuals dude
It's my understanding that a Rosetta Object is a Rosetta Object - and a DX9 Shader setting is just a Rosetta Object which outputs a DX9 shader setting. Presumably as long as any reference texture images are included you should be able to save and send your killer DX9 textures with out any problems - I guess, I've never tried it! |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 6, 2007, 11:17pm
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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It's my understanding that a Rosetta Object is a Rosetta Object - and a DX9 Shader setting is just a Rosetta Object which outputs a DX9 shader setting. Presumably as long as any reference texture images are included you should be able to save and send your killer DX9 textures with out any problems - I guess, I've never tried it!
Hahaha...
This is very much like what you were referring to in the first post of your "Building shareable 3D Spaces" thread, the basic info on such things is very much a mystery to those of us outside the Development circle, maybe this is another of those cases anyway, it's still a mystery to me anyway!;)
By the way, be sure to read Post #49 in that thread, I think you'll find it most exciting in answering part of your first post there.:D
I still wonder here about the persistance and transferability of inherent sub-image alterations (mods) to DX9 textures, even though I did find, as mentioned above, that a DX9 texture I modded and placed on a sphere in shared space did persist.... after all, since that texture exists on my linked system while there it would of course appear, being live while I'm there as is the link to it in that shared network, but I can't exactly test it's persistance when I'm not live in that network along with that link!
It probably stays there when I'm not there, but it would be nice to be sure!
Little things.... it's the little things.... they're like gravel between our toes as we walk down this unfamiliar road together.;)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by Cayenne // Aug 7, 2007, 9:48pm
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Cayenne
Total Posts: 144
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the objects you create are self contained , everything that exists in the sublevels of the object will be part of it until they are changed by either another person or by some scripting or other editing methods .
The materials/textures on the shaders will be persistant so long as they are contained within the objects or if the material node is exported to the top level / outside the object ,and the material is included with the scene and linked to this node then that material will be available and persistant too.
exporting material links out of objects will allow for multiple objects to share the same materials and textures and allow for smaller scene sizes.
loading a texture into the input bitmap area on the dx9 shaders makes that texture become part of the materials structure.
think of it like a container where everything you tip into it remains there till removed or changed.
cases where this would not be true is where the file was using a method to read from a path to a file on your local machine or other place, but usually this is not the method used in authoring the objects, and its better to have the object as a self contained entity.
the frames in the WIP are an example of using a file path to read/load from a directory for the texture used in the frames,, but then this texture is imported to be included as part of the object, and passed on to the material for the frame .
if the import was not used then when you returned to the WIP lounge only the images with the file paths to your drive or to the drives of others connected to the space would show in there , all other frames would be empty canvas. |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Aug 8, 2007, 12:54am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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the objects you create are self contained , everything that exists in the sublevels of the object will be part of it until they are changed by either another person or by some scripting or other editing methods .
The materials/textures on the shaders will be persistant so long as they are contained within the objects or if the material node is exported to the top level / outside the object ,and the material is included with the scene and linked to this node then that material will be available and persistant too.
exporting material links out of objects will allow for multiple objects to share the same materials and textures and allow for smaller scene sizes.
loading a texture into the input bitmap area on the dx9 shaders makes that texture become part of the materials structure.
think of it like a container where everything you tip into it remains there till removed or changed.
cases where this would not be true is where the file was using a method to read from a path to a file on your local machine or other place, but usually this is not the method used in authoring the objects, and its better to have the object as a self contained entity.
the frames in the WIP are an example of using a file path to read/load from a directory for the texture used in the frames,, but then this texture is imported to be included as part of the object, and passed on to the material for the frame .
if the import was not used then when you returned to the WIP lounge only the images with the file paths to your drive or to the drives of others connected to the space would show in there , all other frames would be empty canvas.
EXCELLENT!!!
Thank you Paul for clarifying this all for us and for being so thorough in doing so, it's "all the little things like this" which are really important for us all to know as we embark on our own fledgeling efforts here at designing immersive environments, and every clarification of this kind is a real gem of reference!
Before this clarification I was having horrible thoughts of what would happen if I spent weeks on a prototype project with extensive use of DX9 Mods to send to a prospective purchaser or investor for FPN examination in truePlay1.3, only to have all the Modded textures show up blank at the other end! Scary thought, huh? You know what they say about never getting a second chance to make the right first impression!:o
Thank you so very much... I'll be able to sleep soundly tonight now.:)
- 3dvisuals dude |
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