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Fat Boy
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Fat Boy // Work in Progress
Post by jamesmc // Oct 12, 2007, 8:35am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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So how much of that was done in trueSpace? The curious want to know. |
Post by MadMouse // Oct 13, 2007, 1:13am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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The only coment could be that this shield has not seen much action lately according to its rust. Its a good point. I did originally have the shield without any rust but it looked to new. I take your point about the rust but I think we'll chalk this one up to artistic licence.
You spend far too much time on these things Steve and even then the texturing is rubbish...when can we see more toilets?
Ah... you northerners and your toilet humour :rolleyes::D
So how much of that was done in trueSpace? The curious want to know. If your referring to the shield only James then the answer is everything except UV mapping. I tend to do my organic modeling in Silo and the more structural stuff in TS. |
Post by MadMouse // Oct 13, 2007, 7:38am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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OK... Here's the first render of 'Fat Boy' with his weapons/armour.
I'm rather keen on the pose myself but, as always, I'm open to suggestions.
So I need everyones feedback before going on to the next stage, as once I start the next section it will be to late to alter much of this part.
1) Do you like the pose?
2) Does the hammer look too big?
3) Is the rust on the shield a little much?
4) Does the drool look ok?
5) Are there any other suggestions to improve the scene?
Speak now or forever hold you piece ;)
Steve
P.s. Please don't take too long to reply (if your going to) as I'm waiting to get on with this, and I don't want to charge ahead if there are things to improve.;):D |
Post by hemulin // Oct 13, 2007, 8:11am
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hemulin
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That's really great work there Steve however there is something that is bugging me about the shield; I'm not entirely sure what it is....maybe it's the depth of the bump map/normal map. Everything else looks spectacular!
Chris |
Post by Vizu // Oct 13, 2007, 9:09am
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Vizu
Total Posts: 628
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DAMN ! MadMouse.
No crit here. |
Post by rjeff // Oct 13, 2007, 9:28am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Hmm..as far as the pose goes. mabey make him hunched over like he is getting ready to take an attack or hunch him over with his club up getting ready make an attack. This pose looks like he is scared of a mouse...a mad mouse..sorry.. |
Post by Steinie // Oct 13, 2007, 9:32am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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My only critique is the scale of the texture on the shield. Assuming this guy is huge compared to a human the texture on the shield seems to be in his scale.
But
this is awesome work and THAT was nitpicking.
The hammer size fits and shows his strength. Drool is cool. His stance suggest he is in a defensive position not something I would expect from this one. |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 13, 2007, 11:08am
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butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
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Ok, I decided to look at this from the point of view of a 2d artist, so I humbly submit this in hopes it might be helpful.
Brightness:
The first thing I did was to look at the image in greyscale..as brightness is a strong attention-getter. The hammer is brightest - if it's the most foward item (and the most dangerous item) that makes sense. However, the shield, which I would imagine being further back and closer to the body, is almost as bright. While you need both of these items, getting them to not over-shadow (funny term but it works) Fat Boy, is really important, imho.
The shield is great, but what if you were to darken the rustiness and grunge down the brighter bits some more.. just a level or two.. the colors could still be fairly intense, just the brightness less.
Direction and Stance:
Presumably you don't just want him posing (although he could be guarding menacingly), but let's assume he's attacking? If so... where is his intended victim? .. and is that shield protecting him? Is this the point at which the hammer comes crashing across his opponents face, head chest, whatever? or the preparatory drawing back? well since one can't draw motion lines like a cartoon, that's going to come from the stance..
The present stance seems pretty good, but but a bit static and posed ... his eyes tell me his enemy is just behind my right shoulder. So let's assume that's it, and proceed from there. I think his shield might be angled a bit more across his body. Obviously you don't want to obscure too much of it, which makes having the enemy not directly in the viewer's position a good idea. I think one of the points of the shield might come across his thigh (knee would still be visible) while the shield would also obscure the edge of his belly, the hammer would cross over in front of the edge of the shield and emphasize its being out in front.
...
Ok, I stood in the middle of my living room, real hammer in hand and a basket shield on my arm and did some hammer swinging (good thing I live alone :p) The torso bends forward at the hips and hammer-swinging arm moves foward, the hips and torso twist in direction of swing, and front foot moves in direction of swing and toes point toward the opponent, front knee bends quite a bit, as the front foot comes down hard. The hammer comes now from above shoulder height, and where it connects? for aesthetics you'd probably want that to be somewhat below Fat Boy's face. I'm not a fighter .. only observing my own body doing something unaccustomed, lol, but I tend to test things out this this way. I realise there are different ways to swing the hammer too.
My suggestion (although you may already have done so) is to do some hammer swinging in front of a mirror (uhm .. a safe distance ;)) and see what you like. You probably understand more about fighting stances than I ever will (or why would you make a cool fighting ogre?), so I may have been talking through my hat (or my basket shield):rolleyes:
Since you as a 3D modeler and renderer in 2D are not limited in the way a maker of action figure molds (or sculptor in clay) might be.. your ogre can be poised in that marvelous between moment in the midst of motion, if you so desire. I know you'll decide what you're going for, and do something quite wonderful - hey he's already a fabulously wicked critter. Wish I could model like that... now I'll go back to working on some spheres and cubes and things.. :D
Well, I hope I haven't said too much (took me ages to write this) - and that it's at least marginally useful to you (hopefully at worst I might just sound silly) :o
^_^ |
Post by MadMouse // Oct 13, 2007, 1:24pm
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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I've been tinkering.......
I've tweaked the pose a little as rjeff suggested, and I much prefer this one.
Steinie was spot on with the comment about the shield texture scale, so that has been tweaked and I'm much happier with it now.
Butterpaw........Well what can I say! That has to be the most indepth and helpful response that I have ever had in all my time on this forum :banana:
Thank you so much. Standing in your own front room swinging a hammer must be going above and beyond the call of duty :D and yes I did try it, which is how I came up with the tweaks to the pose.
Thanks to all who commented I hope that the scene had improved because of your input.
Comments and crits as always please.
But I'm thinking that this project is about ready to go to its next stage (yes/no)?
ATB
Steve |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 13, 2007, 2:35pm
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butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
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Yes, I can tell you did.. this is wonderful! I was hoping you'd just use what I said and do your own thing.. and you did! You've caught him in the midst of movement - powerful, focused, menacing and spoilin' for a fight! w00t!:banana:
(and he isn't obsured by the shield either.. excellent choice!)
... looking some more... this is also a sculpture that will look good from every direction.. full of interesting shapes and spaces, angles and movement, however you look at it...
^_^ |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 13, 2007, 4:08pm
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Jack Edwards
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Sorry I'm late on this Madmouse, couple quick crits:
The stomach looks like it's twisted instead of having a more natural soft body deformation. If his chest is turned to the side like that the top of the stomach should be pulled up and along to follow.
I'm not sure about the spittle. It looks more like spiderwebs than gooey dripping dangling drool. Also I'm not sure there would be drool coming off the top teeth like that. More likely there might be mucus strands on the sides of the mouth and the drool would only spill out of the bottom. I wonder if it might be better just to have a few fronds of frothy spittle flung from his fairly filthy open frontal facial orifice....;) or maybe use two different materials for the mucus/spittle and drool. Things to keep in mind though is that the drool has mass and would swing pendulum like as he moved possibly even collecting in a bulbous spitwad before falling to the ground with an ominous goo striking aged dusty stone sound.... in anycase the drool and the inner mouth should probably have a fair bit more specular so that they look wet.
He is definitely looking more fierce and less cute though! :) |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 13, 2007, 5:19pm
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butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
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Excellent points, Jack, if I may chime to agree ... indeed, that diagonal drag from below the ribcage to the navel would show despite the overlying flab on this muscular beastie... and the spittle being gobby, ew, yeah.. tweaking those would have a significant effect. :cool: |
Post by spacekdet // Oct 13, 2007, 5:47pm
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spacekdet
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3 fingered hand ...4 fingered handprint on the shield.
Dunno why, but it's an off note.
I'm sure you'll love rebuilding the texture just to satisfy Steinie and my nitpicks. |
Post by W!ZARD // Oct 13, 2007, 6:41pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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What can I say? This is superb Steve - any doubt's about his emotional state are effectively cleared up by the dynamism of his pose. To me he appears to have just turned to look to one side perhaps to evaluate a new threat.
I agree that the drool could use a little more dynamism - I'm thinking of a friends St. Bernard dog which is the drooliest creature I've ever seen and his drool swings back anf forth just from the motion of his breathing and so almost never just hangs straight down.
One other point is he looks a little ... well, naked! He's got a weapon and a sheild but is not really wearing anything which sort of suggests a sense of vulnerability (try Butterpaws hammer swinging in front of a mirror with your kit off and you'll see what I mean!). I seem to recall the Cave Troll in Balins Tomb had a studded steel collar and a chain which suggested an attack dog feeling like you would get from a rotweiler or a doberman.
This is just a suggested fine tuning point really - he looks awesome as he is IMO.
HTH |
Post by MadMouse // Oct 13, 2007, 11:55pm
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Yes, I think your all right about the spittle. It was added post production, and to be honest I didn't put too much work into it. When I do the final (much larger) render I'll try to get this just right as I'll have more pixels to play with.
I take the point about his body but I'm not sure as there is a whole lot I can do about this. It is just the way the model deforms when twisting and bending at the hips. Hopefully this will not be so obvious in the final render (you'll see what I mean as I progress)
3 fingered hand ...4 fingered hand print on the shield. I struggled over this myself Mick. Its supposed to be the mark of Saruman the white wizard as seen on Lurtz the uruk-hai's head. On lurtz this was placed by Saruman himself but because of the difference in scale a human hand print would be lost on a troll shield. If i had a troll hand print would this still be recognised as the mark of Saruman? So I decided to plump for a human hand and assume that it was painted on.
One other point is he looks a little ... well, naked! Yep. But in the words of Winston Churchill...'I have not yet begun to fight!' This fellow is destined to have a helmet, armour down his hammer arm, a belt and chain mail loin cloth and possibly skin guards. But hey! give me time dude;):D
Which is exactly what I'm off to start on now:D
Thanks for the feed back guys. Its much appreciated. I prefer to be told whats I'm doing wrong than to be told how well I've done the good bits :D (thats nice to hear to of course;))
Back with more soon.
Steve |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 14, 2007, 3:18am
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butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
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ROFL! W!ZARD, I hadn't wanted to say... :D
@MadMouse.. years ago, a dear old friend and I spent many, many hours reading LOTR aloud to each other, with appropriate voices and all, and while I haven't seen the film, I hoped/imagined you weren't quite done. I think it's very difficult to pose mesh bodies, especially since they don't have organs packed inside them, but it's very close to right, and with such a dynamic pose, his very blocky physique and the planned additional accoutrements, I think any imperfections there are not going to be noticeable.;)
Fat Boy strikes me as a sort of next-generation Kara-shishi ... streamlined - no ears or luxuriant mane to get torn off - and bipedal.
Butterpaw returns, with pleasure, to observer mode, from amongst her spheres 'n' cubes..
^_^ |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Oct 14, 2007, 4:54am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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Bit late to the table (or you just work too fast, not sure which!). All the things I was going to mention for the first pic have been addressed in the second, except the drool, looks like he's chewing cellophane wrapping.
Can't comment on accuracy, etc, as I've not watched the LOTR things (I saw the bulk of the first one (fell asleep during) and that was enough) but as a stand alone, not referencing anything, he's still a fearsome brute! |
Post by W!ZARD // Oct 16, 2007, 1:32am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I haven't seen the film,
I've not watched the LOTR things Gasp! CG artists who haven't seen LOTR?!! That's almost sacrilege! Never mind ladies - I've seen the movies enough times for all of us and I've read the book (yes, all three volumes) at least eleven times!
I first read LOTR at age 13 and I've always been heavily influenced by that experience and it has since intensely affected the way I saw the New Zealand landscape. The day I heard that Peter Jackson was going to film all three books here in New Zealand was like finding out that a prophecy had come true!
Having said that, the very first time I started to read LOTR I gave up in disgust halfway through the first chapter - hairy footed Hobbits seemed so silly. Later I tried to read it again and by the time I got through the second chapter I was totally hooked!
A couple of years before filming began my partner and I went for a drive into the mountains and found this spot for a picnic. We actually talked about the hill you see in the centre of this picture and said it should have a medieval walled town or castle on it - Peter Jackson must have agreed because this is where he later built Edoras for the movies! As you can see, in this picture there are some sheep but no cave trolls! |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 16, 2007, 3:00am
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butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
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My children and grandchildren have seen LOTR, but haven't read it.. I've read it and eventually I might be fortunate enough to see the films. I have to make choices (and some are made for me :p) The most recent movie I've seen was "A Beautiful Mind" and that I got from the library, a year ago. I had my adventures when I lived in Kenya, and one of them was.. I played the clarinet in a little dance band in the movie "Shadow on the Sun" starring Stephanie Powers, whom I had the good fortune to meet and talk with .. a fun experience :D
I first read the Hobbit in the late 60's I think (my early 20's), found the book on my Kenyan brother-in-law's bookshelf, and I later bought a recording of Nichol Williamson reading it (wonderful! - I still have it). I've read LOTR three times, one of those times being when I read it aloud together with Amin Kassam (poet/journalist) - we took turns reading and painting the house.. it was really fun.. I only wish we could have recorded that! :p One of the joys of that relationship was that we read many books aloud to one another. But, we had no radio, no TV, no tape recorder, and never went to a movie. (We actually did have a telephone.) That was in the 70's and early 80's in Kenya. A few people did have TV, and more had radios. We did have records - lots of them. Call 'em vinyl if you want - they were called records then.
I know New Zealand is gorgeous :).. I have a good friend who lives there, and my sister visited there recently, and took many photographs ... ooh lovely!! A great place to film LOTR, and so cool you've actually been to the site, and seen its potential even before it was chosen, heh heh :D!
^_^ |
Post by Shike // Oct 17, 2007, 4:16am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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I really have to learn how to connect to internet when I'm out travelling....a lot has happened since I last dropped by!
(though, since I was in London and each evening with the customer involved something strange called pints, I'm not sure my comments would have been readable:rolleyes:)
Really like the pose and gear, and as usual, I can't complain about your texturing :D
( or maybe I should.... a snide remark just because I'm abit envious about the great result.... ;) )
And.. I'm not sure if you mentioned it (lots of missed posts to skim through), but any plans on surrounding environment? (the thing that always brings me to a complete halt:o)
Inside like the dwarf dwelling where they first meet a troll (which I think would look good and should also be easy to render separately and composite to reduce mem-load, and the dirty old castle-look would be easy for you to create.)
or outside on the battlefield together with a gigantic army (you know, it's just copy/paste a couple of hundred times ;)) |
Post by MadMouse // Oct 17, 2007, 8:45am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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each evening with the customer involved something strange called pints Ah yes pints. I've heard of these strange, mythical artifacts. With the power to make weak men strong, ugly women beautiful and your dad dance like John Travolta! :D
but any plans on surrounding environment? Yep, nothing set in stone yet. But there will be some sort of enviroment (or Splinters will never forgive me :D)
Thanks Lars (mines a pint BTW;))
Steve |
Post by MadMouse // Oct 19, 2007, 1:12pm
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Another piece of the puzzle slots into place.........:D
I've done a bit of polygon tweaking on 'Fat Boys' belly to hopefully correct previous crits. The straps are predominantly there to mount the armour onto Mr. Trolls arm.
Comments and crits as always please.
Steve |
Post by 3dfrog // Oct 19, 2007, 1:31pm
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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Very cool. I have no crits on the model itself, it is beautifully executed. The front and side poses look stiff to me though while the view from the back seems to show a lot of weight. Maybe its someting in the way he's rigged that the muscles don't seem to flow as naturally in the front. I can't put my finger on it though. Otherwise it's perfect, I'm just being picky. |
Post by jamesmc // Oct 19, 2007, 1:56pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Very pro!
That should easily win a contest anywhere and could make a guest appearance in a movie.
Would also make a great action figure at Orc's R Us. :) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 19, 2007, 5:20pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I think this is improving nicely.
It looks great from the front angle, but the side angle clearly shows that he's leaning into the shield and unless there's something he's bashing the shield into, he's unbalanced and should fall over... :p The other option would be for him to be in motion, but I think overall his left leg is to far back to support the upper body pose. I think this is also the issue with the stomach. The way he's turned, he'd either have to have abruptly turned while running (front knee not bent enough to support that) or the left leg should be the leading leg. |
Post by jamesmc // Oct 19, 2007, 5:54pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Since it's poseable, I want to see the critter walk with that shield and club. Not very far - you know - the basic hulking - I'm gonna kill something walk. :) |
Post by W!ZARD // Oct 20, 2007, 12:16am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Well I think he's gorgeous! I have no issue with his pose or his muscles - he looks great. The front on view gives me the impression that he was giving his attention to something unseen off to our right but he's now been suddenly distracted by something else off to our left. This gives the impression that he's almost trying to do two things at once and so (to my eye anyway) this adds a nice implied dynamism to his posture.
Given his expression and his ...er accessories, I get the impression he's in a combat situation of some sort and so would be trying to look in every direction at once. It all works for me!
Normally I'm a great fan of nudity but it's great to see some clothing on him now. It removes that sense of "naked=vulnerable" I mentioned earlier.
As usual Steve, you always fail to disappoint!!! ;) |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 20, 2007, 12:58am
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butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
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I agree with W!ZARD, gorgeous indeed!
A very dynamic pose.. walking/stalking is not static - there are moments of instability - you've caught one of them, and a number of possible moves can be read into it.
Do you plan to distress the edges of leather a little, a make it a bit greasy/bloodstained? In any case ... the minimal cover is great.. just enough and not too much - and the chain mail gives a much more powerful impression than the nudity! :D
Awesome!
^_^ |
Post by 3dfrog // Oct 20, 2007, 1:43am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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My brain must have been fuzzy from too much web browsing yesterday. I looked at it again now this morning and don't see it as stiff as I did yesterday. Funny how a night's sleep can change the brain's outlook. Did you rig this guy with the new bones? What render engine did you use? I'll have to print this guy to hang on my wall for inspiration if thats ok with you. |
Post by Steinie // Oct 20, 2007, 2:42am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I think his pose looks like an "Action Shot" and his pose captures that. His stance and stare tell a story which is very interesting.
Can I have your autograph?:) |
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