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How to weightpaint vertices inside the mesh?
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
How to weightpaint vertices inside the mesh? // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by Tiles // May 28, 2008, 12:58am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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As the title says, how do i weightpaint vertices that i cannot reach from outside? Like implemented eyes as you can see here at my screenshot, err, okay, was at least worth a try :D
This green area with the bunch of vertices represents two eyeballs that lay inside the mesh. What i want to do is to implement a facerig here now. But even in the current state, i am simply not able to reach the vertices from outside to vertexweight them. No matter in which angle of view. Every try leads to just weight the outside vertices. And that will surely not change when i insert my facerig. Which makes the whole rig obsolete.
How is it meant to weightpaint vertices that are unreachable from outside the mesh, that lies inside the mesh? Is it even possible? |
Post by tomasb // May 28, 2008, 1:38am
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tomasb
Total Posts: 261
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this one is resolved in 76 by more straightforward workflow, in 751 there is only a workaround:
select geometry that occludes area you want to paint
use info panel to move it eg. 10 units up
in weight paint, disable auto cleanup
paint the area you want
select moved geometry and move it back |
Post by Tiles // May 28, 2008, 1:41am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Many thanks Tomas. Means i stop any further work now and wait for 7.6. Makes no sense to go on here :) |
Post by Igor K Handel // May 28, 2008, 8:34am
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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Means i stop any further work now and wait for 7.6. Makes no sense to go on here
A position I have been in since initial purchase of TS in Dec 07. Don't Caligari do patches?
STILL after 6 months waiting and waiting, and STILL very much on the fence
I never paid for a beta before!!
Sorry but unacceptable.
Could cut and paste endless quirks/bugs/odd workflows/oddities da de da de da, but they have already been posted by many others. I always thought that software that had been beta tested could have some quirks/bugs due to perhaps a hardware configuration, or clash of external software. But time after time problems are reported that are completely within TS. I paid for a full program that should work, NOT to have to find workarounds for SIX months. Patience is a virtue but I am NOT a nun, and my saintly halo is now at the point of spontaneously combusting
On a positive note I am glad this problem is being addressed. HOWEVER for me 7.6 is TS's last chance. In 20+ years I have never paid for software that exasperates me this much!!.
Even the great people in this forum and all their unselfish help will not hold my loyalty if 7.6 is of the same standard as I have currently purchased. Flakier than a Cadbury's Flake and then some ggrrhhh.
Dear Bill,, please please please instill higher quality control into the proceedings
To all those diehards sorry to offend but for me simple things like this should never have been released until sorted. It's akin to giving a child a broken toy!
Stomps off
IK:mad: |
Post by Tiles // May 28, 2008, 9:20pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Yup, it's a shame how Caligari deals with its customers when it comes to bugfixes. You get a few fixes after the release. But no matter if bugs are left, at some point Caligari stops bugfixing for the old release and implements further fixes just into the next release. You have to buy the next version to get your bugfixes then. You also have to wait one or two years for this next version. And this next version always comes with some old bugs, and introduces some new bugs. There is never a stable TS version around.
It seems that this will never change. There are not enough people complaining about it, they simply leave. A whole community has left that way. And there are even some people defending Caligari when you talk about this issue.
You haven't paid for a beta, you have paid for a hybrid where the one part is the outdated past, the other part is an early, in most areas disfunctional and buggy alpha version, and the third part is trying to connect those two, slowing everything down to a crawl.
Be lucky that you just wait half a year, I wait over a year now. The biggest shame here is that it just needs a few fixes to make at least one or two areas in this baby useful. Like here the update so that you can grab vertexes to weightpaint without demodeling your mesh, which is a design bug in my eyes. But they simply doesn't arrive :rolleyes:
There are too many open ends. A few tools less, but this tools working would have been the solution. Still, even this is good ol Caligari tradition, throw in as much icons as you can. Functionality comes at the second place.
Oookay, on with XSI, i need a working rig. Really a shame that i have to change the software to get things done ...
It is not longer Bill, it is Steve Ballmer now by the way :) |
Post by W!ZARD // May 28, 2008, 10:35pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Many thanks Tomas. Means i stop any further work now and wait for 7.6. Makes no sense to go on here :)
Umm... why not use the workaround in the mean time? That way you can continue working on your project (which looks very interesting by the way).
Makes no sense to stop when you don't have to;) |
Post by W!ZARD // May 28, 2008, 10:40pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Hi Igor - I'm probably one of those die-hards you refer to but I find nothing to take offence over in your words - in fact I've said similar things myself when frustration got the better of me and not just over trueSpace either.
This may not help you but I'd like to share something of my worldview with you in the hope you may find something useful in it.
For many years I was a telecom cable repair guy - I was given a van load of tools and a job sheet and expected to go and locate faulty cables and repair them. The majority of telecom cables are buried in the ground so repairing them involves digging holes - lots of holes! The majority of these holes were dug using hand tools - shovels spades crowbars and so on (machine diggers tend to create more problems than they solve).
Anyone who has dug a lot of holes will tell you that a spade is a well designed and reasonably efficient tool - but it's efficiency on a case by case basis varies a lot depending on the specifics of the job at hand. Shovels can work very well on clay soils but if the soil is too wet you spend more effort getting the clay off the shovel than you do onto it. Shovels can work very well on sandy soils but if the soil is too dry two thirds of every shovel full falls back into the hole before you can get it out. Shovels can work well in stony soil but if it's too hard-packed or the stones too big you can spend more time using the crowbar than the shovel.
An expertly dug hole is a work of art - in many New Zealand suburbs the phone cables are buried in the grass verge - a true shovel artist can turf the grass, dig the hole, cut it to the precise shape to include a seat, room for his feet and sufficient room around the cable itself to effect the necessary repairs. Then, the shoveller can put the soil back in the hole, compact it so it all fits, replace the grass turfs and leave the job site in such a way that you could barely see a hole had ever been dug in the first place.
There are several interacting factors that determine the quality of the results - the time available for the job, the experience and motivation of the person doing the job and the unique specific situations pertaining to that job - soil type, stoniness, moisture content etc.
It takes a good 5 years to learn enough about the art of the simple shovel so that a shoveller can reasonably expect to do a top class job of digging a hole in almost any circumstances (I could tell you some horror stories about the conditions in which I've worked to repair a faulty cable!).
I'm talking about a simple tool and a simple task - when we apply these fundamental principles to the task of using a highly complex set of tools to create a highly complex 3d simulation using trueSpace, or any other 3d app - the reality is that - it is not possible for a tool or tool set to cater to every single circumstance and to get even close to that goal requires a massive amount of time and effort and learning. When things don't go according to our wishes it's all too easy to blame the tools - but it's not the shovels fault that the soil is too stony, or dry or wet or that it's being asked to perform perfectly in this specific situation.
Igor, you are a wonderful pianist - I have your piano piece that was recorded in the town hall on one of my favourite play lists. You know, as a musician, that if you've fully mastered both the instrument and the piece being played that there is no frustration, no work, no effort involved - it's as though the music just flows from your mind and heart, through your fingers and out through the piano.
I believe that the (extremely rare) person who has achieved that level of mastery with any 3d application would be able to create his/her art - still or animation - with almost no effort.
I have made pictures that just flowed from my head and heart through my hands and out through the computer - these pictures were comparatively effortless, because I had the experience to know what does and does not work. It's these pictures that get the most positive responses and that win me competitions and get my work selected for CD covers and video backdrops and Online game backgrounds.
Work takes effort but it's only hard work when we have not yet learned the way to do it easily. I can play the piano but I could not - without a huge investment of time and learning - play that beautiful piece you played in the Belfast town Hall - you have learned to play that difficult piece easily.
The same principles apply to any other task in life. I was always taught that a good builder never blames his tools. I was taught that hard work simply means you have not yet mastered the job which is easy when you know how.
Clearly there are still ongoing issues with some of the tools in tS - I'm not arguing that at all. I write all this to remind myself to not give up, that frustration is the best feeling in the world once it's overcome and that only once in life are we given a challenge that we are not also given the strength to overcome.
Hang in there my friend - we all relate to your frustration and we all (I hope) wish you all the best in overcoming that frustration.
Hope this helps |
Post by brotherx // May 28, 2008, 11:10pm
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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As a side point, 'bad mouthing' a tool you want patches to or improvements is never a good idea, especially when new potential customers could read it and walk away.
Let me explain my reasoning. In the UK in the company I worked previously, the cost of a developer working for 1 day on a project was around 200 GBP, which covered salary, equipment (hardware/software), office space and utility bills. Now, lets just say that is a little steep and it's realistically it works out at even say US$ 300/150GBP. This means that for every 2 days of development you need 1 sale of TrueSpace 7.5. Now, factor in that they probably have at least say, 6 guys working full time on bug fixing and new feature development every day. that would require 3 sales a day/ ~ 1000 a year. Now what about the rest of the team...?
My point is that for every negative comment posted, that could result in 1 less bug being fixed, one less small but useful feature added or an increased cost of upgrade when the new version comes out. Just remember that when a bug isn't fixed that you wanted fixed - you're shooting yourself in the foot.
Bearing all this in mind, truespace is not perfect. It has bugs. It might crash occasionally. So does Windows, Blender, [software title here]. Nothing is perfect. |
Post by Tiles // May 28, 2008, 11:31pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Umm... why not use the workaround in the mean time? That way you can continue working on your project (which looks very interesting by the way).
Because it is even hard to grab these vertices so that i can move them outside the mesh. It is a pain. It was even a pain to implement the eyes. I don't want to demodel my mesh. I fear to destroy it. I just want to weightpaint the vertex weighting for my rig. And that shouldn't include to grab every hidden vertex out of my mesh.
Heh, Wizard, seems that we are back to our old discussion. I know we both will never have a consensus about this :D
You are happy with the current TS, i am not. Ways not. I have paid for the features that were listed, and i still want what i was promised. I wouldn't mind about not working animation tools when they wouldn't be listed. Or when they would be stated as Beta. But they are listed as fully working features. I want working animation tools when the manual states that these animation tools are there. What i not want are useless disfunctional icons. What i not want is report bugs for every step i do. What i not want is that every advice starts with "As a workaround".
As it is now, name me a tool or a feature and i name you the bug or quirk for it. Well, yea, not every tool, but you know what i mean. I have started the rig and you can follow in the bugs section what tools i have touched. That's not how my workflow should be, touching a tool, making a screenshot and reporting a bug. Have a look at the bugs section. 17 new entries. Not all of them bugs, but ways too much for a week of work. This would even be too much for a year of work.
It may overcome my frustration when these bugs gets fixed. But i fear that it will be like it always is. Half of them stays unfixed, and the new version will bring new bugs. That's how it is since i know this company. |
Post by Tiles // May 28, 2008, 11:35pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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BrotherX, there are no customers left that could be scared away. A whole comunity disappeared. Caligari got bought.
If not complaning now, when is the time for? When the software completely disappears because nobody wants to buy this buggy beast anymore? |
Post by W!ZARD // May 28, 2008, 11:56pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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No tiles - this is a different conversation altogether.
Some things in life are hard - challenging, frustrating, difficult to achieve - as the Buddhists say: Life is suffering.
If every body stopped doing things when they got hard and sat around complaining until someone made it easier to do.... well I suspect nothing would ever got done!!
Obstacles are what you see when to take your eyes from the goal. Seems to me that if you want to give up because it's too difficult then you never really wanted to succeed in the first place.
Personally I've been really pleased to see you asking questions here and figuring your way through the complexities of rigging and vertex painting - it's satisfying to see other people successfully progressing - seeing them give up is just somehow not as rewarding.
Blaming your tools never helps anyone - pointing out ways they can be improved can sometimes help - persevering and carrying on anyway despite the difficulties will always help you achieve your goals more effectively than just giving up because it's too hard.
For the record I'm both happy AND unhappy about trueSpace - like anything in life it has it's good points and it's bad points. The thing that really makes me happy is achieving a satisfying result - and enjoying as much of the process as possible. TrueSpace - with both it's strengths and it's weaknesses - allows me to achieve that, even though sometimes it's a pain and sometimes it's hard. |
Post by brotherx // May 29, 2008, 12:18am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Contact caligari directly. Report any bugs in tbe bugs in the forum...
My point is the negative comments in this thread alone could have lost a customer or 2...and I can probably find a dozen other threads with similar comments without even trying.
Also, I'm not saying don't complain...but if I were coming fresh to the forum and seeing some of the negative vibes from a small group of users, I'd not touch the software.
To me the Microsoft thing could be incredibly positive. And perhaps you should consider other software if it Means i stop any further work now.
WRT workarounds. My company sells software for more than I earn in a year, which is a lot, and it has bugs...and there are work arounds...and they (clients) have been waiting 6 months for a new version and are happy to use the work arounds meantime. What you may have paid for the software in the whole grand scheme of things is insignificant compared to the cost of some other software out there and I guarantee they are not bug free.
FYI the software I am referring to has been in development for 25 years now. This year a re-write, the equivalent of TS8, is being done and 6 months on from when it started and it's probably 5% complete.
I agree with wizard too, particularly regarding blaming the tools. If you are good at what you do, the tools largely don't matter other than to facilitate the work. Otherwise it's like a carpenter blaming a ruler when he cuts the plank of wood 3 inches short. Similarly if he didn't have the right size of screwdriver he'd not down tools and say 'I can't finish this until I get the right screwdriver' - he'd make do with what he has.
That also makes me think of my grandmother putting the word tomatos down on a scrabble board. I told her it was wrong (I was 8 at the time) and when we looked it up in the dictionary she said the dictionary was wrong - true story. |
Post by transient // May 29, 2008, 1:15am
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transient
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So if I understand this properly, the problem isn't that I forked out money for a (currently) defective product, the problem is that I'm not spiritually advanced enough to understand that using buggy software is really just the same as maintaining New Zealand's communications network.:confused:
While I have absolutely nothing against Buddha, I find this argument to be a little far-fetched.
I'm also afraid I can't subscribe to the idea that posting about truespace's bugs is, in a roundabout way, akin to guaranteeing they won't get fixed - but at least this argument isn't being contested on the astral plane.;)
Don't take this the wrong way Brother X, because I think you have a point, it's just that truespace 7.5 really is a lot worse bug-wise than competing software, at least that I've used. This would be obvious to most users once they bought the program, and most 3d guys are far less tolerant of bugs than people here, even Tiles.
Anyway, if Caligari really don't like something on these forums, they can always delete them, as they've done in the past. |
Post by brotherx // May 29, 2008, 1:35am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Transient, I ain't going to argue the point about it being more buggy than competing software because I don't know - I only use truespace because it it is reasonably priced and I'm a hobbyist and I could afford it.
It just seems to me that some folks around here always focus on the negative when there is so much in the way of positive points. I probably only use about 5% of the power and maybe that's why I'm so positive about the software...
Besides, if you think that truespace is bad, Corel Paint Shop Pro X wouldn't run on Vista when launched and rather than release a patch to allow it to run, they released a new version that was slower, had like 2 new features...and charged almost the full price for an upgrade. v12 has just been released and it's like 2 new features again... I have like 4 different full licenses for Paint Shop Pro because it's always been cheaper to buy a full license from an online retailer, boxed, than to buy the download upgrade version directly - go figure. |
Post by Tiles // May 29, 2008, 1:42am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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My point is the negative comments in this thread alone could have lost a customer or 2
And my point is that doing nothing has leaded to the fact that a whole community, worth 450 members, has disappeared because of the bugs, and Caligari got bought. I am pretty sure that not only the german community has disappeared. There is not this much left to loose. They are all gone. Caligari has lost his main userbase and looses customers with every day that goes without a bug fix.
We as the users should have started complaining much earlier. And more massive. Now the disaster has happened. Too late.
Anyways, it's not that i blame the tools for me being unable to do something because i lack of knowledge or being not good enough. I blame the tools for being too buggy to work with because they are too buggy to work with. Proof are my entries in the bugs section. And the proof that i know what i am doing can be found in the animation gallery. So please don't tell me that i am too dumb for the tools. And please don't show me the door. My decision if i stay or leave.
Workarounds are a fine thing for having them for two or three bugs and quirks until the patch arrives. But Workarounds are the main workflow in Workspace. Unacceptable.
I develop software and games for eight years now. And i am just a hobbyist. But i can tell you that i would never ever think of delivering a software with this masses of bugs as a full version. This would not only make my users angry, it would also damage my reputation. Users that would complain about it would complain for good reason.
And that's exactly what happened to trueSpace. It has lost its reputation. Nobody trusts this software anymore. No matter where you read about trueSpace outside this forum the advice is always the same. Keep your hands away from trueSpace.
Not me doing the damage here. Not me. I am just the one who names the things from time to time. Even when it's inconvenient for you.
No tiles - this is a different conversation altogether.
When you mean the story about giving up with this rig, yes. But enough is enough. I will not waste more good time to complete the wasted time* here. This vertex weighting here was just the last bit. This rig is useless anyways. I still have no workaround for the missing default pose. My pose gets destroyed when i hit the reset button here. Give me the workaround for that one and i might go back to the rig and complete it. But without the workaround it makes no sense to go on with it. I was just curious how far i could push it when this bug wouldn't exist.
*just in relation to this rig. I have learned alot with this try. Unfortunately i learned also that the current Bone system is simply too buggy for my needs. - yet
TS 7.6 is not this far away. And then i may give it a second try. |
Post by Steinie // May 29, 2008, 1:43am
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Steinie
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The good news is the fact 7.6 will arrive very soon. If everything goes well we should all be fairly pleased. However if our personal list of "must have fixes of glitches" isn't included we are all in for a long night!:rolleyes:
Yes we should have been given these sooner. Yes these fixes shouldn't be necessary if Caligari was God. (Remember even God screwed up when he created Apples)
Most of us have gone through this routine many times. We'll loose some users and gain some users.
One thing has stayed the same, all your complaints (and mine) haven't changed one bit. Same attitude and reasons good or bad but repeated over and over no matter what we are talking about. Did anything change in a year? Nope.
There are boards for other software were negative things are said all the time. Don't think we are unique.
One question about TS being unusable. If that were true how in the world does Wizard do it? We do know he is a "Master Spade Digger" :p
I tend to agree with all your arguments. There is truth in all of them. I also believe all of you have a right to say what's on your mind when you purchased the Software. My only suggestion is when you want to go sour please put it in the proper place.
Bring on 7.6 and let's see what MicroSoft Money is bringing us... |
Post by Tiles // May 29, 2008, 1:54am
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Tiles
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One thing has stayed the same, all your complaints (and mine) haven't changed one bit
There was no load save menu in the workspace before i started complaining about it ;)
I also hope that my bug reports makes a difference in catching and fixing them. You know that i not only complain.
About Wizard and how he does it, this is the third time i somehow ask for the workaround for the default pose bug. I still miss the answer. Wizard, what's the workaround for it? :) |
Post by brotherx // May 29, 2008, 2:03am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Not me doing the damage here. Not me. I am just the one who names the things from time to time. Even when it's inconvenient for you.
You really should rephrase that to not JUST me doing the damage. Here you are completely ripping the software to shreds and you are a senior member of the forums with nearly 700 posts - how would a new user react to that??
Microsoft - some people don't like them, a lot in fact, and they will spite themselves when MS takes over companies...is that clever or stupid?
And if workarounds are the norm in workspace, why is it that the organics vids from Jack use just 1 I think, to check texture sizes in the whole 1 1/2 hours of video.
And in my 25 years of software development I've seen my fair share of crap code...usually from VB programmers and the games industry...seriously how many games have been released that are so unstable you have to wait for like 10 patches before you can play them 6 months after you buy it? And don't even get me started on nvidia drivers... |
Post by transient // May 29, 2008, 2:10am
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transient
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Unfortunately, this argument falls over when you look at Caligari's competition, which isn't games.
I think we'll soon find out who Caligari agrees with - all I can say is that Tiles has found more bugs than everyone else in this thread (forum?) combined.
That has to be respected. |
Post by tomasb // May 29, 2008, 2:19am
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tomasb
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Unfortunately, this argument falls over when you look at Caligari's competition, which isn't games.
I think we'll soon find out who Caligari agrees with - all I can say is that Tiles has found more bugs than everyone else in this thread (forum?) combined.
That has to be respected.
i think that Tiles starts beating Prodigy's bug reporting frequency before he get into beta |
Post by brotherx // May 29, 2008, 2:23am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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I know it isn't a game and yes he has reported loads of bugs and I have no problem with the fact he is finding of bugs - that is a good thing. It's the attitude that goes with the reporting of them that is the issue.
And yes, TrueSpace has loads of competition, mostly who have massive budgets and that probably comes from selling their software for a lot more.
Also, in all respects, TrueSpace is vastly more complicated than any game and in some ways, is very much like a game. 3D interactive environment, scriptable, realtime rendering with a variety of inputs...
Besides, a program is a program. The complexity, technology, platform and languages used varies but it still is written by humans who make mistakes.
I guess I am perhaps looking at it from a different point of view. The sheer size and complexity of it, as a piece of software, is amazing. And....you get unlimited fun out of bouncing balls around...well, I do.. :D |
Post by trueBlue // May 29, 2008, 2:36am
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trueBlue
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Sorry but I do not see this as a bug. More as a difficult step in the process.
Getting back to the question.
Tiles: Are the eyes a separate mesh?
Have you tired to select one vertex in an eye and then select Connected?
If you are able to select the eyes as a whole and then follow what Thomas as suggested it is a really easy step. |
Post by transient // May 29, 2008, 2:38am
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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And....you get unlimited fun out of bouncing balls around...well, I do..
I definitely wouldn't begrudge anybody having fun with any software. If you're happy, then really it shouldn't matter too much what other users are saying. |
Post by Tiles // May 29, 2008, 2:39am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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That's the whole story Brother. I, who loves this software, can simply not recommend 7.51 because of the bugs. I do nobody a favour when i do. You would let a new user run into the open knife for the sake of praising TS. I cannot do that, sorry.
What i do is to report bugs when i stumble across them. Just known bugs can be fixed.
Jack just does modeling in his video. What i not know is how many crashes he had while making the video. And if the video isn't made with 7.6 at all. I cannot say anything about the stability of the modeling tools because i haven't really touched the modeling tools yet. I still model in 6.6. Maybe the modeling tools are a stable part of 7.51. |
Post by Tiles // May 29, 2008, 2:49am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Sorry but I do not see this as a bug. More as a difficult step in the process.
Getting back to the question.
Tiles: Are the eyes a separate mesh?
Have you tired to select one vertex in an eye and then select Connected?
If you are able to select the eyes as a whole and then follow what Thomas as suggested it is a really easy step.
Then see it as an overcomplicated step. I expected that i can paint every vertex in the mesh from any angle as i can do it in Motion Studio for example. There is nearly no mesh without some vertices that are hard to reach from when you are just allowed to come from the outside. It was simply the last bit that leaded to the decision that i better stop now. As told, this rig is useless anyways because of the reset pose bug.
The eyes are part of the mesh. Selecting Connected? Hmm, as stated above, haven't touched the modeling tools in Workspace yet. Point is that i find my way into XSI rigging at the moment. I need a working rig. Which i first need to finish. So gimme a few days to come back then :) |
Post by brotherx // May 29, 2008, 2:52am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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I definitely wouldn't begrudge anybody having fun with any software. If you're happy, then really it shouldn't matter too much what other users are saying.
See, this is the thing...it upsets me when people are grumpy...I want everyone to be happy. Call me an optimist. I feel the same way about the software I write too. It'll never happen and that's the pessimist side showing through.
Tiles: All fair points. I started working through the tutorial and didn't have any issues for the hour or so I used it.
As for recommending it, I would in spite of the bugs but all dependent on what the user is looking for. And even with my ball bouncing fetish, I do often model things and play with animation. The LE is great too even if it does mess with your head.
The bugs may be numerous and what would be interesting to see is a complete list of reported bugs and what has been addressed but besides that, I like the software. And I do have to say this, I really hated workspace at first....I really like 6.6. |
Post by W!ZARD // May 29, 2008, 3:54am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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So if I understand this properly, the problem isn't that I forked out money for a (currently) defective product, the problem is that I'm not spiritually advanced enough to understand that using buggy software is really just the same as maintaining New Zealand's communications network.:confused:
Much to learn you have young padawan - only when you can dig a perfect hole in any sort of soil using nothing but buggy software will you have achieved full spiritual enlightenment!;)
@Tiles - When I said this was a different conversation altogether it's because I was not talking about software at all. I was talking about the attitude that it takes to succeed in whatever endeavour one attempts - Winners never quit, quitters never win. You can go around blaming your tools for your own failings or you can refuse to fail.
The people that get my respect are those that are still churning top quality work with the tools they have - regardless of the quality of the tools.
BrotherX raises a good point, (similar to a point I've made to you before) - you reply by ignoring his point and waxing on about a completely different point - this is not effective discussion and in conflict resolution terms would be called 'clouding' the issue.
No one is saying that your bug reporting efforts are wasted or not appreciated - but your complaining does not help. You were most certainly not the only one to comment on the 'File" menu issue - and I suspect it was the folk that asked for it rather than the folk who complained about it's absence that made the difference.
And finally, re "About Wizard and how he does it, this is the third time i somehow ask for the workaround for the default pose bug. I still miss the answer. Wizard, what's the workaround for it? " I have no workaround for the default pose bug - I'm not aware of a default pose bug. For me the default pose button works flawlessly - I set the position I want as the default pose, I select the set default pose tool. I select away from the character to exit the tool. I carry on posing, and if I need to return to the default pose I use the default pose tool and it works exactly as advertised. |
Post by W!ZARD // May 29, 2008, 4:07am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I still model in 6.6. Maybe the modeling tools are a stable part of 7.51.
This is too funny! Am I to understand that Tiles and Transient, two of the most prolific complainers when it comes to bugs, are both still using the bug ridden tS 6.6 legacy side tools which are being phased out because they are buggy?
If you boys want any credibility at all you might want to try using the tools that replace the old buggy ones. You might want to try a little less complaining and a little more completing some quality work just like so many other people do. |
Post by transient // May 29, 2008, 4:08am
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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People who never win, and never quit, are idiots.
And I think some just don't get it, that not having good software is not an "attitude problem" on the user's behalf - to suggest this is insulting and far more inflammatory than anything Tiles has said.
Of course, this is always how these threads end up - the usual suspects resort to personal jibes and things go south. |
Post by transient // May 29, 2008, 4:14am
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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If you boys want any credibility at all you might want to try using the tools that replace the old buggy ones. You might want to try a little less complaining and a little more completing some quality work just like so many other people do.
You've got no class whatsoever. I do work, not in truespace. Keep an eye at cgtalk over the next couple weeks.
Moron. |
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