|
|
Orbicles
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Orbicles // Work in Progress
Post by butterpaw // Oct 20, 2007, 7:10am
|
butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
|
I'm trying to prepare this as part of my game. I think it will quickly become clear what it is. I'm placing it here as I work on it, in hopes of receiving constructive criticism as I work.. There is so much I don't know...
9024
Thanks for looking, and as I said, comments, crits, pointers .. all welcome.
Here's what I've done so far: started by importing a tetrahedron (which I spent a long time on as it was in totally the wrong position) as placement tool. Tetrahedrons will removed completely once the necessary items are placed. I cut open the spheres with the cylinder and then made shells. Not sure if the shell is a good idea, but will need see them from inside, so.. I guessed and inner surface would be important..
9025
NEXT: More spheres |
Post by rjeff // Oct 20, 2007, 7:22am
|
rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
|
Well I think that once we see more of this object, and then get and idea of where you are going with it, we will be able to offer up some helpful hints! You have me interested though. |
Post by MadMouse // Oct 20, 2007, 8:45am
|
MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
|
Well you've definitely got my interest. It's hard to comment until we've seen a bit more, so I'll be back.;) |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 20, 2007, 1:24pm
|
butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
|
Thanks! I had already discovered some of the basic problems in putting this together, but I expect to run into more .. quite soon, I think, but that's because I'm a beginner.:p
^_^ |
Post by Dragneye // Oct 20, 2007, 1:37pm
|
Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
|
"...I had already discovered some of the basic problems in putting this together..."
Hello butterpaw
If/when you run into issues, please mention them and their solutions when you can. What seems trivial at first may be a solution key to someone else. 'Trivial' problems, and solutions were my forte at the beginning of my learning curve with tS... and they still are! :) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 20, 2007, 1:49pm
|
Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
|
Hi Butterpaw,
You're going to want to add edges to quadify or triangulate that mesh before exporting it. Complex n-gon surfaces like that will likely cause problems with both the exporter and the game engine. |
Post by W!ZARD // Oct 20, 2007, 2:01pm
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
"Orbicles" cool word!
It lookis like you are using the boolean tools and you mentioned the word shell - did you use the shell tool to hollow out your spheres? If so here's a suggestion that may help.
First make a sphere then copy it.
Next resize the new sphere and paint it with a different colour - any colour will do at this stage. This will allow you to easily apply a different material to the inside.
Next, select the large sphere and using the Boolean subtract tool click the smaller sphere to simultaneously hollow out your large sphere and paint a different material to the inside. You can then subtract an entry hole to access the inside of your hollow sphere
Later on you will be able to enter point edit mode and use the 'select by freehand' tool whilst holding the cntrl key - this selects all faces with the same material. You can use this technique to (for example) apply a different texture and UV setting to the interior surfaces.
Hope this helps |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 20, 2007, 5:14pm
|
butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
|
Firstly, thanks to all of you for your responses of interest and advice! I haven't chosen a very simple first project. I will try not to divulge too much of the game story, but I will share here some ideas which have been 'under wraps' for more than 2 years.
This project is a very futuristic orbiting space home. In this particular case it is assumed that money and materials are not an obstacle, so it is quite extravagant. It has artificial gravity, which would be necessary for a long-term dwelling. Ah, for the days when we imagined people could live in zero gravity without detriment to health. (I've been an avid reader of SciFi since I was 10).
The residents are one human, a robot butler and two cats. It should be viewable from the outside (for cutscenes) and the player will probably not visit all of space within it but might.. (still working that out).
My proposed overall shape is an array of 4 slightly overlapping spheres whose centers are at the points of a tetrahedron. I would like to add to that 3 more smaller spheres placed using another (inverted and rotated) tetrahedron. It would look a bit like a cluster of soap bubbles, with a cylindrical tube running through it as an elevator shaft, which protrudes at the 'bottom' (where a space taxi would dock).
I do have a much simplified fall-back plan, but I'd really like to give this a try, although I may be attempting the impossible.. :o----
@ Jack - Thanks for your suggestions -
I think I understand "triangulate", but do not know at what point I'd need to do this.
Not sure about the "add edges" - could you be more specific?@ Dragneye - Good point - I posted some problems previously under spherical complexities (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=50381#post50381) in the New Users section, and received some pointers.
I went back and spent a LOT of time making sure a had a regular tetrahedron rotated just the correct amount. It is difficult because in 3D modeling it seems a tetrahedron is constructed by making a diagonal edge across each face of a cube. This produces the tetrahedron but it is not in the position I needed. In addition, its center is not where I would expect the real center of the tetrahedron should be (and I don't know how to determine it precisely or to place it there), and ... it has a rectangular bounding box so the figures indicated in the info box don't relate well to the actual tetrahedron. I finally resorted selecting the vertices and checking their coordinates. I placed one face parallel to the xy plane, with base of the equilateral triangle parallel to the x-axis, the end points being equidistant from the y-axis. I then manouvered this until I had the top vertex of the tetrahedron at 0,0,0 then I could constrain xy and move this object up and down the z-axis to my desired position. I could then copy and rotate it to invert it. However, I think that scaling doesn't come out very accurate, and it looked like such a simple idea with pencil, graph paper and compass.
I experimented until I had a cylinder of desired size centered along the z-axis (to subtract from the spheres for doorways), and rotated the spheres so the the 'cylinder' would take the same bite out of each one. I removed the faces with select face and remove.
Then I used flattened cylinder for one floor and copied for the other spheres. An additional flattened cylinder at the center between the spheres was joined to these with object union. Made a hole at the center for the elevator shaft.@ W!ZARD - Re: "Orbicles" .. thanks:D - just wanted a fun name for the WIP title. Thought I was inventing it, but apparently it's a real word already.
Because I did not glue the cut spheres together, the shell tool worked fine, but I didn't like adding all that extra geometry. :( I love the suggestion you offer instead - thank you very much! I'll go try this. :)
I know little to nothing about UV, so that part will be yet another adventure!^_^ |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 20, 2007, 6:23pm
|
Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
|
Add edges is a Point Edit tool that lets you arbitrarily draw in new edges. This would allow you to clean up the geometry a bit by making the faces into quads.
Triangulation is something I wouldn't worry about until you're ready to export, since it's easier to read (visually interpret) a quad based mesh than a triangulated mesh.
The more important point is you want to avoid concave polygons ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concave_polygon ) and polygons that are extremely long/narrow. Better to cut these up into multiple convex polygons. (Quads preferably. ;)) |
Post by jamesmc // Oct 20, 2007, 7:57pm
|
jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
|
oO Orbicles!
Can't wait to see it developed. :)
With all the suggestions on the forum, it should be an educational experience for all, especially me. :)
Good luck and remember, nanu nanu. :) |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 20, 2007, 11:42pm
|
butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
|
Heh heh, James, educational most of all to me, but I hope it will be so for others too.
nanu nanu to you too...:D |
Post by b_scotty // Oct 21, 2007, 9:40am
|
b_scotty
Total Posts: 176
|
Nanu nanu? Shalzbot!!!
:D |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 21, 2007, 2:26pm
|
butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
|
Snort, splutter splutter :o *butterpaw turns head quickly to wash her shoulder (when in doubt wash)
Having spent 24 years of my life in Africa, I missed Mork and Mindy(and everything else on tv), but managed later to pick up bits in reruns - Tee hee :D
^_^ |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 22, 2007, 4:35am
|
butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
|
These are the larger spheres - I've expanded the image so you can see them properly .. they would be joined together of course.. also the white thingy is my 'placement tool' and will be removed.
I think now, I want to remove the faces left by subtraction, 'paint' the inner surfaces by copy/reduce/color/subtract (if I've remembered that right) weld the pieces together ... but maybe add the smaller spheres and inside things like floors, walls, elevator shaft, before welding it?
9077 |
Post by dave_k // Oct 24, 2007, 8:07am
|
dave_k
Total Posts: 81
|
Just a passing thought..........
Would it make your construction sequence easier to build the inside things on different layers? Then you could weld the outside parts before things get too complicated.
This really looks interesting. Looking forward to the end result. |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 24, 2007, 10:50am
|
butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
|
Thanks, dave_k, yes!.. I'm finally figuring out (mostly) how to get these set up on layers. It would be so nice if the layer names could show up in the toolbar buttons, but I just have to remember to keep the window open, so I can keep track ...
Since my last posting:
I've managed to make the spheres with a thin shell by subtracting a differently colored, slightly smaller sphere from inside of a larger one, following W!ZARD's instructions.
Experimented further on how I'd like to place the spheres, how much they should intersect, and where to place the smaller overlapping ones and how large they should be.. etc, etc. Object array tool may come into play here soon...
Then, I hope to:
place objects on layers (cleanly)
Fire up the boolean hedge trimmer and cut some doorways, and such in intersecting pairs of spheres
With objects on different layers, and hiding objects appropriately,
add floors, elevator/lift shaft and anything else I think of..
Clean up n-gons, tidy mesh...
...........................................
I think the only time I've ever started over so many times is when, at age 10, I was learning to knit and crochet (from a book!). :D |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 25, 2007, 3:42am
|
butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
|
Here I am again - this time with all my orbicles neatly placed, geometrically, and each located on its own layer, whew! The spheres are shelled with different color on the inside, and the cylinder is the liftshaft.
I found I could dispense with the tetrahedron as a placement tool, but setting up the spheres with the radial array of objects tool. Placing 3 spheres in a horizontal equilateral triangle arrangement arrangement (3 in a circle). And then, I copied it and rotated the copy to get the top sphere in proper position
The array's center is at 0,0,0 (convenient). I control/selected the large spheres and copied them and resized the group to make the smaller spheres (yay).
Now to start arranging the intersections of the spheres and make floors and other good things.. :p
9174 |
Post by jamesmc // Oct 25, 2007, 3:59am
|
jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
|
looks delicious, can I have a bite? :) |
Post by W!ZARD // Oct 25, 2007, 4:18am
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
Yeah, lookin' promising BP - glad that my suggestions were followable (is that a real word?).
Are all your three bottom spheres going to be the same? If so I would recommend hiding all your current layers (except the layer your lights are on) after copying one of the lower spheres to a new layer. You can now use this sphere as a reference (and of course you can copy it to as many layers as you need) for shaping your internal details - floors walls and what have you.
Once you've got one of the bottom spheres mostly built (ant textured if you like) check that the combined axis of the completed sphere object is still at 0,0,0, then you can copy and rotate to create the other bottom spheres - rather than modeling them eack individually.
Hope this helps |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 25, 2007, 4:28am
|
butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
|
followable - yes!
your suggestions? WooHoo!! :D
The spheres are rotated slightly so that some vertices will match up nicely, but for a lot of this, copy-paste is my friend! ^_^
:jumpy:
but now.. work (I mean work work) :p modeling comes later ;)
(wish I could retire :o) |
Post by frootee // Oct 25, 2007, 4:47am
|
frootee
Total Posts: 2667
|
Looks like your making progress Butter!
Keep it up!
Froo |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 25, 2007, 5:01am
|
butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
|
heh heh, Jason, slowlee, slowlee ... catchee monkeee :p
(favorite saying of an old friend from Cormoros Islands)
I'm so grateful for all the advice as I go along! :) |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 25, 2007, 5:06am
|
butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
|
looks delicious, can I have a bite? :)
LOLZ James.. first thing I thought when I looked at it with all those colors was:
lollipop! :D |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 27, 2007, 3:49pm
|
butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
|
Oh, I little help, please, if possible...:confused:
Is there a way to hide (or toggle off) the grid on Model side? (7.51) I really feel I need to stick with Model side at the moment, and grid is visually in my way just now.... :p |
Post by trueBlue // Oct 27, 2007, 4:19pm
|
trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
|
In Model select the Display options in the TS6 Files menu.
Then select the Set Grid To Hide as shown in capture. |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 27, 2007, 5:25pm
|
butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
|
Oh thanks muchies, Blue! I knew I had seen it at some point but just couldn't track it down again and searches in the manuals weren't snagging it.
back to work... (I do love this)
^_^ |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 28, 2007, 6:12pm
|
butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
|
Hmmm worked on this thing all weekend, and pretty well got the internal bits sorted out, and just as I thought I could show what I've been doing I was attacked by a Boo!-lean Blackout .. (now I know I didn't see a setting for "make all the colors black") :p
So instead of planned entertainments.. here's my 'haunted' space hideout :
9228 |
Post by W!ZARD // Oct 29, 2007, 2:15am
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
Ah yes - Booleans! When they work well they are a major boon to the modeller (although some people dismiss them as 'not real modeling' whatever that means!).
Of course like anything that handy when working well they can be problematic when the don't. Here's some Boolean tips:
ALWAYS save your scene before ANY boolean operation - including bevel - because with more complex operations there is a greater likelihood of the maths behind the operation getting snagged on some part of the calculations. (In fact always save your scene often no matter what you are doing. I usually end up with a few different versions of each scene, each one progressed a little further than the last. tS 7 is way more stable than some earlier versions but safer always beats sorry! It can be awkward wearing a belt and suspenders but you'll never get caught with your pants down!!)
Try to avoid multiple booleans whenever possible - try to plan your Booleans carefully so that you minimise the number of operations. One complicated operation will usually work far better than a number of simpler ones.
After a while you'll get to know which operations are likely to work but this does involve a degree of trial and error.
Last tip; read first tip again!
HTH |
Post by frootee // Oct 29, 2007, 5:50am
|
frootee
Total Posts: 2667
|
Just a thought here Butter.
I noticed that your spheres all join together.
One thing you Could do is, rather than use booleans, do some point editing:
Create a sphere, then, go into point edit.
At one of the poles (where all longitudinal lines intersect at a point), remove the faces. This will leave a hole in your sphere. To get a bigger hole, remove the next row of faces.
Then, copy and resize as needed.
The spheres should fit perfectly into each other like this.
The one caveat with this method is, you can only connect the poles to each other. You cannot use this method to connect spheres next to each other, and it looks like you have some spheres connected like that.
HTH!
Froo |
Post by butterpaw // Oct 29, 2007, 7:51am
|
butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
|
Thanks W!ZARD! I have many saves and only got that at the last bit, but I thought it looked a bit spooky. and George(Boole) must be revolving in his grave over what he started. :D
I'm afraid that layers and booleans are not very compatible... and probably should not play in the same sandbox.
Re multiple operations:
The large spheres do not intersect at all, they should just touch.
Each small sphere has a doorway (already cut with a cylinder). Each needs to have a bite out of either side (made by adjacent lower spheres). I think I need to:
Join (boolean) two large spheres (they just touch each other) - and save as one object (if I can).
Start a fresh project with one small sphere.
Load the conjoined-twin spheres and try to boolean subtract them from the small sphere.
Save.
Clean up the geometry.
SaveThe top sphere needs to have 3 holes cut into its lower half, for the 3 smaller spheres to fit into. I'm guessing I need to:
Join (boolean?) three small spheres (they just touch each other) - and
save as one object (if I can).
Start a fresh project with one large sphere
Load the conjoined-triplet spheres and try to boolean subtract them from the large sphere, and
Save.
Clean up geometry, removing center bottom of large sphere, which will not be needed. it should look like a hemisphere with a tail curving under
Save@Froo - unfortunately none of them join at the poles, but I will keep in mind the suggestion - as I can think of times that would be very useful, thanks! ;)
Crits and comments on this proposed method of approach ..and anything else, for that matter... are most welcome! :D |
|
