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TS7.5 Initial reactions
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
TS7.5 Initial reactions // New Users
Post by PrimMac // May 11, 2007, 4:37pm
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PrimMac
Total Posts: 78
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Just thought I'd share my initial reactions upon installing TS 7.5 for the first time.
The first thing I noticed was the speed at which the application starts. In my previous experiences with ealier version (7.x) the startup speed was quite slow. The application's interface has been completely revamped with new colors and has a more organized, more structured layout (I love it!).
I've been using 7.5 for a few hours now and no crashes. Earlier versions I had to close after switching layouts a few times. I've only tried out a few of the new tools, but they look great.
On the downside, I haven't yet found a way to export realtime renders other than print screen (LAME!), though I just may not have found it yet. Also, I think they shoud've made rendering to file possible from within Player. I don't like switching to Model. They should've also included Menus on PLayer.
All in all, I think TS 7.5 is Caligari's best version so far (though I've yet to try it fully). I haven't been an active ts user since the release of version 7.11, and have used TS only for converting between formats from other Apps. Now, however, I may give it more use :) |
Post by Délé // May 11, 2007, 4:51pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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On the downside, I haven't yet found a way to export realtime renders other than print screen (LAME!), though I just may not have found it yet. Also, I think they shoud've made rendering to file possible from within Player. I don't like switching to Model. They should've also included Menus on PLayer.The Realtime render to file button is in the very bottom right corner. You can render animations with it too. :)
So you can render to file from the Workspace with either the Realtime rendering or Vray1.5.
5873
hth |
Post by spacekdet // May 11, 2007, 5:38pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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The Realtime render to file button is in the very bottom right corner. You can render animations with it too. :)
So you can render to file from the Workspace with either the Realtime rendering or Vray1.5.
Uh...so how do you render using, like, the default Lightworks render engine?(in Workspace)
I see buttons for the (extra, not included) VRay front and center...but have spent the last half hour searching in vain for some way to render something, anything, using the (built in, hopefully included ) Lightworks render engine.
My card's 'realtime' output is definately 'not ready for primetime'...screenshots aint gonna cut it. |
Post by noko // May 11, 2007, 6:34pm
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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Render to file works great in writting frames of an animation which can be compiled later.
Also I like to render to a large image and down size to smaller, which smooths out any noticeable lines or just gives better anti-aliasing. This image was rendered using the spectacular scene by Marcel Barthel with a HDRI background at 1900x1200 and then downsized to 800x500. I've done much larger images rendered to file without any problems and it is virtually instant, well as fast as the hard drive can write that is. :)
I am having alot of fun experimenting and trying different things out which is really sped up by using tS7.5 real time renderer. |
Post by noko // May 11, 2007, 6:39pm
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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Uh...so how do you render using, like, the default Lightworks render engine?(in Workspace)
I see buttons for the (extra, not included) VRay front and center...but have spent the last half hour searching in vain for some way to render something, anything, using the (built in, hopefully included ) Lightworks render engine.
My card's 'realtime' output is definately 'not ready for primetime'...screenshots aint gonna cut it.
As far as I know, to render using Lightworks you have to use modeler, not possible from Workspace side, yet. You should be able to load any of the modeler scenes in Modeler scene library and render using Lightworks. If you want a quick flowpath for this please let me know. |
Post by Anunnaki // May 11, 2007, 6:40pm
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Anunnaki
Total Posts: 18
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tS 7.5 initial reactions...
Nice interface! Well done Caligari!
Can someone please advise where the shut down button is, it was in 7.11, can't seem to find it???
Oh, the new grid functions are a nice addition.
Vincent D. Brumback |
Post by trueBlue // May 11, 2007, 6:46pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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The tS7.11 Shut Down button is no longer needed. Select the Close "X" button top right corner. |
Post by noko // May 11, 2007, 6:48pm
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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tS 7.5 initial reactions...
Nice interface! Well done Caligari!
Can someone please advise where the shut down button is, it was in 7.11, can't seem to find it???
Oh, the new grid functions are a nice addition.
Vincent D. Brumback
Why yes, the X at top of main window, usually top right corner. tS7.5 now has a main window so closing down using the X is OK. Back to a more traditional Windows program so the old close button is no longer needed. |
Post by stan // May 11, 2007, 7:26pm
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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initial reaction the ui colour scheme is terrible ..it only caters to those with near perfect vision..even the tooltips are unreadable on the icons..the panels not much better., but the tooltips for the libraries are better than the libraries themselves...what a shame:( :( :( |
Post by noko // May 11, 2007, 7:47pm
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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initial reaction the ui colour scheme is terrible ..it only caters to those with near perfect vision..even the tooltips are unreadable on the icons..the panels not much better., but the tooltips for the libraries are better than the libraries themselves...what a shame:( :( :(
Unfortunately I don't see an easy way to change that from within tS7.5 to get more contrast between how the lettering, icons etc are set :(. At best using graphic card drivers to adjust gamma and contrast may help. A different color scheme/layout in tS7.5, is needed with high saturation/contrast setting and hope will be implimented in near future. |
Post by stan // May 11, 2007, 7:51pm
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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the old colour scheme would do just fine as an optional choice, as it is I won't get much use out of ts7.5 the way it is..:mad: :mad: |
Post by seaduck // May 11, 2007, 8:28pm
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seaduck
Total Posts: 13
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For me, so far so good. I had a good laugh when I accidentally dragged blond hair onto a glass goblet. Modeling with the real time rendering looking so good is quite a bit of fun.
Playing around with the "pac man" scene I realize that the animation system is pretty cool too - once you get your character properly rigged. I haven't rigged a character in 7.5 yet, but it looks like it has been improved.
Undo seems predictable now. Mesh simplification produces higher quality results. I would like a little more control of the mesh simplification process than just a slider. Perhaps sliders for what to preserve (uv seams, etc...) Maybe a vertex draw mode for vertex preservation weights.
Had a few problems initially with importing models - some gaps, flipped normals, missing faces. Even with these few problems, overall I'm liking what I've seen so far.
This is an ambitious release and so far it seems pretty stable (although reading through the forums there seem to be a few having some issues)
I had one thing that seemed like a crash - was playing an animation and drag/loaded a scene from the library while it was still playing. Thought TS crashed but it appeared to be continuing to animate while it was loading which caused slowdown but then it picked up again once it finished loading. Perhaps this is a bug, but it didn't actually crash - it just paused for a while.
The basic functions (like importing a file not already in the library) were a little difficult for me to find in the user interface but there are a lot of helpful conversations in the forums and useful stuff in the promo videos.
I think the documentation makes some assumptions that one already knows the basics of the interface. Maybe consider adding some of that basic stuff to the docs.
Thanks for making a cool product! |
Post by splinters // May 11, 2007, 8:31pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Stan I feel for you and I always had you in mind when making the icons so I ensured they were crisp and bright wherever possible. Sorry to hear they are no better for you. They are now 32 bit icons with alpha so it may (MAY) be possible to modify somehow the toolbar colour which I guess you would want much brighter...but only dev's would know...:o |
Post by splinters // May 11, 2007, 8:38pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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If I get time (busy weekend) I will post an updated UI guide like I did for 7.0;
Would anyone find that useful?
What a difference a year makes eh?
Here is the original thred for fun and comparison;
http://forums.caligari.com/discus/messages/74/20301.html?1134469217 |
Post by Tiles // May 11, 2007, 8:50pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Just to be sure that i have understood it correct: You cannot export the new bones system to X yet. And you cannot render them with Lightworks from workspace nor modeler side neither? That makes the new bones useless for me. I have no Vray. And the direct render way using DX9 is not what i need :(
Alright, back to TS6.6 and Motion Studio ... :rolleyes: |
Post by splinters // May 11, 2007, 9:10pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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My animation knowledge is not good but if you rig a character, the playback can be done in workspace or model allowing you to render from model side using the LW engine. As for X format, there is no exporter but it was said that it might be pretty easy to script one..:) |
Post by noko // May 11, 2007, 9:12pm
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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Just to be sure that i have understood it correct: You cannot export the new bones system to X yet. And you cannot render them with Lightworks from workspace nor modeler side neither? That makes the new bones useless for me. I have no Vray. And the direct render way using DX9 is not what i need :(
Alright, back to TS6.6 and Motion Studio ... :rolleyes:
Not sure about X but yes you can render workspace animations using Lightworks on modeler side. In modeler "Render scene to file" you have an option to select Workspace animation to render. Here is quick horse animation in tS7.5 using new bone system rendered using Lightworks on modeler side. Nothing fancy here, just a test. |
Post by bigbigblue // May 11, 2007, 9:17pm
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bigbigblue
Total Posts: 26
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If I get time (busy weekend) I will post an updated UI guide like I did for 7.0;
Would anyone find that useful?
I for one would find it VERY useful. 7.5 is a steep learning curve and anything which makes it easier is most welcome. |
Post by seaduck // May 11, 2007, 9:36pm
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seaduck
Total Posts: 13
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That sounds useful! :jumpy: |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 11, 2007, 11:27pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Ok at risk for asking a dumb questions, have you calibrated your monitor Stan?
A lot of the monitors now a days are WAY off on the color and gamma. I had problems even making out some windows menus before I calibrated my monitor.
The colors all seem pretty crisp distinct and easy to read for me at 1680x1050...
-Jack. |
Post by Tiles // May 11, 2007, 11:41pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Ah, luckily i have misunderstood it, phew. So i can render the new bones to bitmap with the lightworks renderer. I really thought for a moment that i have no benefit from the new bones. Many thanks for this reply. You made an old man very lucky :D
Going to dive into the new bones now :)
As for scripting, well, you can do everything with scripting. Even script all 3D stuff without any 3D app at all.
BUT
I have no clue about scripting. And to be honest, i don't really want to have a clue about it. It is simply not my world. I want to create 3D content. And not battle around with wrong placed brackets, syntax errorrs and all the funny stuff that is involved to get a script to work.
That's why i use a render and animation software. To have one button to click at for a task that needs months to script. And it is even not about the effort. It is really that i am totally lost with scripting. |
Post by PrimMac // May 12, 2007, 2:31am
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PrimMac
Total Posts: 78
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So what about the link editor? Has anyone found it yet? I was able to open by using Floating View, but I dont really having so many windows open. Is there a button somewhere so I can use Link Editor in Default View? |
Post by razzaq1 // May 12, 2007, 3:26am
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razzaq1
Total Posts: 60
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Hi PrimMac,
If you left-click the '4D' or '3D' in any of the main window header bars, and choose '2D' from the pull-down, it will become the link editor.
1D is the Script Window
2D is the Link Editor
3D is the 3D view
4D is the animation View
in any main window
Elegant, huh! |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 12, 2007, 3:37am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Also if you CTRL-click-drag the title bar of any window (or panel) up to the edge of another window you can dock it into the existing layout.
-Jack. |
Post by clintonman // May 12, 2007, 3:49am
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clintonman
Total Posts: 304
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You can also open a new link editor window from the lower left hand corner.
Clinton |
Post by jaywat // May 12, 2007, 4:37am
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jaywat
Total Posts: 0
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First impressions from someone who hasn't used previous versions of Truespace (well, not since the Amiga). The manual is woefully inadequate imho, and in many cases, quite simply wrong. I'm using both the manual for 7.5 and for 6.6 for reference, because there's so much stuff just not covered at all in 7.5. Also, both manuals make huge leaps in assumptions. They tell you to perform a step, but give you no idea how to do it. Often they tell you a button is going to be on a context menu, and it simply isnt. Thank god for the Icon Helper, eh?
Half the actions I try to perform while following the manual or a tutorial simply does not do what it says it will, thus stopping me dead in my tracks for following any further.
Some examples:
Loading bitmap to displacement brush? Says to do so by "double clicking on brush texture rectangle on displacement map panel." Doesn't work. Nothing happens whatsoever when you double click the texture rectangle. I still have no idea how to load a bitmap to the brush.
Change face into hole? the 6.6 says "turns selected face into a hole of a face that is picked after activation of this mode". Nothing happens when you click it and select a face (actually you cant select a face with that tool depressed), nor when you select a face then click it. And what does a 'p' mean next to your mouse pointer anywayS?
FOllowing the first part of the object replace tutorial - just the bit to make a cube follow a path in the first place... doesn't work. The object remains stationary. Did I miss something? Is there a crucial bit of info missing on making the cube follow the path?
Following the plane propellor tutorial to the letter? doesn't work. After making all the connections, the prop stays where it is and the plane moves seperately. Tried it from scratch a couple of times with the same results.
Following the boning tutorial? applying skin to skeleton doesnt work. They stay seperate and dont respond to dynapose. Tried it several times with existing and new models and still can't get it to work.
I've really tried, for about 12 hours now, to get anything at all done, and frankly I feel like I'm getting absolutely nowhere, which is incredibly frustrating. I accept there's a very steep learning curve, but with the manuals so sketchy and the stuff that is explained simply not working as described I don't see how I will ever get anywhere.
And then to top it all off I gave up and went to play Test Drive and the server is down :( |
Post by Délé // May 12, 2007, 4:53am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Hi jaywat,
Sorry you're having so much trouble with the tutorials in the manual. :( If you post questions on the forums, people might be able to help you make some progress. :)
You're using the 6.6 manual? I thought the tS7 manual was supposed to be available to 7.5 purchasers? Perhaps they haven't gotten it out yet. It might be coming. That should help explain the new architecture more then just the 7.5 stuff.
Loading bitmap to displacement brush? Says to do so by "double clicking on brush texture rectangle on displacement map panel." Doesn't work. Nothing happens whatsoever when you double click the texture rectangle. I still have no idea how to load a bitmap to the brush.
I'm not sure what the manual says, but it should say Ctrl + Double click to load an image.
hth |
Post by Délé // May 12, 2007, 5:10am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Following the plane propellor tutorial to the letter? doesn't work. After making all the connections, the prop stays where it is and the plane moves seperately. Tried it from scratch a couple of times with the same results.I just tried the plane propellor tutorial and it works for me. Inside the propellor object, did you end up with the image shown below? The links are just swapped from the tranform node to the rotation engine.
If you want to try it again and post your progress with screengrabs, I'm sure people here (myself included) would be willing to help walk you through it. :)
5895
Edit: On second thought, it sounds like you are just moving the plane's body object and not the entire plane. When you click on the plane in the workspace after you're finished, it selects the plane body sub-object (not the entire plane). Hit the up arrow to select the entire plane. Or navigate back out of the plane in the Link Editor window by clicking the orange triangle in the upper right corner of the window. Then select the Plane. |
Post by Steinie // May 12, 2007, 5:47am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I bet Jaywat skipped parts of the manual (it's large so most people would) but earlier in the chapters basics are covered first. Yes the tutorials work you through the app but for me learning the basics first made working with TS much better. Hats off to Caligari for making the manual nicer but part of their QA process should have been by a user with NO experience. TS is so big it's rather easy to assume things.
They could also have the 7.0 manual available too but that could make things worse. The good new is what you are doing right now. Post you problems and the Authors help you through it. Where else can you get that kind of help for FREE!:) |
Post by stan // May 12, 2007, 6:06am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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Stan I feel for you and I always had you in mind when making the icons so I ensured they were crisp and bright wherever possible. Sorry to hear they are no better for you. They are now 32 bit icons with alpha so it may (MAY) be possible to modify somehow the toolbar colour which I guess you would want much brighter...but only dev's would know...:o
thanks Splinters :) , not sure how one could change tooltip colours and panel colours at all..on the icons its that dark colour they chose as gradient that doesn't work for me, the icon images are fine if I could keep them light as they appear when you pass over them, which is more what they use to look like..or how the model side is..
Ok at risk for asking a dumb questions, have you calibrated your monitor Stan?
A lot of the monitors now a days are WAY off on the color and gamma. I had problems even making out some windows menus before I calibrated my monitor.
The colors all seem pretty crisp distinct and easy to read for me at 1680x1050...
-Jack.
Jack, yes that was kind of a dumb question..I'm visually impaired.[have about 20/40 to 20/80 vision at times abit worse]...the old colour scheme was fine, this one just doesnt work for me, I'm straining to see what should be easily read like the tooltips or panels..but I know I'm not the only one who can't see them well, I'm just the worse case senerio :(
Gord :cool: |
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