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Achieve Reflection in workspace view
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Achieve Reflection in workspace view // New Users
Post by PrimMac // May 13, 2007, 12:51pm
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PrimMac
Total Posts: 78
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So, does anyone know if I can make reflection in Workspace view? How would I go about it? Must I use the sample shaders provided in the Library as base, or can I make my own reflection shader from scratch? Thanks for the info. |
Post by noko // May 13, 2007, 1:48pm
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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The sample shader uses a bitmap, hence a fake reflection. It does allow use of enviroment images which at times can be very useful.
New feature in tS7.5 is render to texture, you can have real time reflections (not raytracing) of the enviroment using this new ability. To see sample scene open up the Library browser, then go to Render To Texture and open the library. In the library is a sample scene where you can start playing around with and get ideas.
You can use render to texture and hook up the output to let say the Glass shader input bitmap and have real time refractions maybe (I think this is possible but havn't tried it yet).
This is really powerful stuff and in the end not to hard to use, if you saw Parva's House video, it has a mirror inside of it which showed reflections. Now reflections in this case is really very much different and really isn't using ray tracing to figure out the reflections, it is basically another camera view writting to texture. |
Post by EyeInStein // May 13, 2007, 2:55pm
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EyeInStein
Total Posts: 38
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The sample shader uses a bitmap, hence a fake reflection. It does allow use of enviroment images which at times can be very useful.
New feature in tS7.5 is render to texture, you can have real time reflections (not raytracing) of the enviroment using this new ability. To see sample scene open up the Library browser, then go to Render To Texture and open the library. In the library is a sample scene where you can start playing around with and get ideas.
You can use render to texture and hook up the output to let say the Glass shader input bitmap and have real time refractions maybe (I think this is possible but havn't tried it yet).
This is really powerful stuff and in the end not to hard to use, if you saw Parva's House video, it has a mirror inside of it which showed reflections. Now reflections in this case is really very much different and really isn't using ray tracing to figure out the reflections, it is basically another camera view writting to texture.
After reading this, I dropped that scene into mine and then attempted to recreate it. I'm stumped though. I can't figure out how to get the the D3D Render to Object as the bitmap for the cube (inside the cube). Got the control hooked up to the camera, but that is as far as I can get. |
Post by noko // May 13, 2007, 3:14pm
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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Inside your cube you should find material object, on the material object you export bitmap all the way up until the node shows on the cube object with the Render to Texture object.
Use cube 1 in Render to texture sample scene to see how the bitmap for the material is exported to outside of object. Open up Cube1 (orange square at top of Cube1) In the Link Editor (LE) you have two tabs at top, one says "Artist" the other says "Developer", select Developer, this will show how all the objects are linked together. Notice how the material for cube 1 has the bitmap node or attribute exported, line connected to side of window.
Exporting a node you can rclick on panel node and export or just drag using left mouse button to side of screen which will export that attribute so it becomes accessible outside of the object. Once accessible this attribute can be controlled by other objects such as the render to texture object. This ability to work inside of objects and have access to structure sets tS apart from all other 3d programs and gives it incredible amount of power. Anyways let me know how it works out. |
Post by EyeInStein // May 13, 2007, 6:12pm
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EyeInStein
Total Posts: 38
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Well, even stripping that scene down to just the single wall, the LE views in that are a nightmare to a noob in this stuff. Trying to follow the exports on down to the lowest levels is not hard at all to navigate - but it is very hard to understand what you are seeing.
I added the DX9 texture 'Layered Plastic' to Cube 1. I drop down 1 level in the LE and it looks nothing like the preloaded scene. I have a Cube 2, Transform and Material List. The preloaded scene has Transform, Shape and Layered Plastic.
The only way I can get Layered plastic in this level is to drop it in there, which seems like a 'workaround' instead of a straightforward way of doing it - but then again - I don't really understand this LE. The only way I can get shape to show up is cube map the texture.
Anyway, while typing this, I kept trying a combination of things. I am getting some results, but nothing as clear as the sample file. One problem is that my UV repeats has somehow gone to 4 - and I can't find a way to set it to 1. Secondly, the texture is showing up behind the model being reflected - not the smooth screen in the sample.
I have to say - this is just a little complicated to figure out with nothing but samples. It is like reverse engineering. IMHO, this is not good. We are working for the application - it is not working for us. Very frustrating. |
Post by weaveribm // May 13, 2007, 10:50pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Very frustrating.
There's a sense of a hugely powerful earthmoving machine and we just got the keys and we know what needs to be done but oh that climb up the ladder to the cab and all those levers and pedals :)
Will be just a matter of letting it all sink in bit by bit. This can happen to heavy machinery see it's a good metaphor get the winch warmed up :)
Peter |
Post by noko // May 15, 2007, 4:25pm
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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Well, even stripping that scene down to just the single wall, the LE views in that are a nightmare to a noob in this stuff. Trying to follow the exports on down to the lowest levels is not hard at all to navigate - but it is very hard to understand what you are seeing.
I added the DX9 texture 'Layered Plastic' to Cube 1. I drop down 1 level in the LE and it looks nothing like the preloaded scene. I have a Cube 2, Transform and Material List. The preloaded scene has Transform, Shape and Layered Plastic.
The only way I can get Layered plastic in this level is to drop it in there, which seems like a 'workaround' instead of a straightforward way of doing it - but then again - I don't really understand this LE. The only way I can get shape to show up is cube map the texture.
Anyway, while typing this, I kept trying a combination of things. I am getting some results, but nothing as clear as the sample file. One problem is that my UV repeats has somehow gone to 4 - and I can't find a way to set it to 1. Secondly, the texture is showing up behind the model being reflected - not the smooth screen in the sample.
I have to say - this is just a little complicated to figure out with nothing but samples. It is like reverse engineering. IMHO, this is not good. We are working for the application - it is not working for us. Very frustrating.
When I get some time, hopefully in near future, lets make simple scene using render to texture, nothing fancy. LE can be very dauting at first, spectacular once navigated a few times and just awesome once comfortable with. Render to texture has so many possibilities I hope others will use this powerful new ability in tS. |
Post by EyeInStein // May 15, 2007, 6:46pm
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EyeInStein
Total Posts: 38
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I stuck with this the next couple of days and finally got some respectable results. I still don't know how they got the double reflection on the wall, don't have the textures like the sample , don't have the finesse with the lighting that would make it worth viewing -- and I never attempted the projector - but I did get a clear reflection.
A hint that helped considerably --- to apply the texture, hold down the Ctrl key and double-click the texture. |
Post by weaveribm // May 15, 2007, 11:14pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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spectacular once navigated a few times
It is noko it's rather similar to an object-oriented program like Visual Basic, seems very powerful with very many object properties exposed
When I get some time, hopefully in near future, lets make simple scene using render to texture, nothing fancy
Yes please that would be very kind of you :)
I made a start last night and followed the 7.5 manual sections on D3D rendering. It helped to drag the 'Blank D3D texture' (I think it's called) on to an object in the scene before experimenting- and finding the Library Browser icon opened up a whole new and fairly spectacular world... I finally managed to discover how to render an object in base colour. Big drink celebration :)
I think it may be useful to render all the objects in a scene (in the workspace) with base-level D3D textures so that the scenes are fully D3D before tweaking the base colours and textures. Good workspace practice anyway
Peter |
Post by noko // May 17, 2007, 1:48pm
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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Been working 12 hr days or near them, Saturday will work on sample scene and tutorial, it will be fun :). Maybe also able to experiment with refraction later on ;). |
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