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How do you delete a loop
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
How do you delete a loop // New Users
Post by mykyl1966 // Jun 14, 2007, 5:45am
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mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
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How do you delete a loop? I can delete all the edges but it leaves the vertices behind so i have to then go round and select all the vertices. How can I just remove vertices and edges in one go.
Thanks
Mike R |
Post by mykyl1966 // Jun 14, 2007, 7:27am
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mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
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So far in my experiments it cant be done. I can do it in my other modeling apps but I really want to be able to create totally in Truespace so i can enter into the monthly gallery thing. From how I read it it has to be entirely Truespace created.
Mike R |
Post by Tiles // Jun 14, 2007, 7:47am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Confirming.
And this issue seems even more complicated. How do you delete an vertice without to delete the underlying edge? |
Post by Norm // Jun 14, 2007, 8:14am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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Working with the tools, I suggest this as workflow:
Remember it is called "Edge Loop". 6858
Select an edge using for instance the pick'n'paint. 6860
Change the selection mode from "Edge Loop" to vertices.6858 ~ 6859
Use the convert tool to convert the selected edge loop to vertices. 6861
Use the Delete tool to delete the verts, which deletes the edges.6857
This leaves me with this large face I show selected in the image. Of course I had to change selection mode from verts to faces to select it, but seems to me this is what you are looking for? |
Post by mykyl1966 // Jun 14, 2007, 8:32am
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mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
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Right. I will give that a try although it seems a bit long winded. What had happened was I beveled an edge loop and later when I tried to add subd to the model it was just a mess. I undid as far back as I could but the bevel was left behind. Hence my problem. lol.
Cheers
Mike R |
Post by Norm // Jun 14, 2007, 8:37am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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Well I believe the devs thought this out pretty good. Once you get a handle on the selection tools and that bottom row in image, you begin to be able to think your way through what has to be done. I am working on them very tools as we speak so the scenario was pretty fresh for me to answer. Hope the vids will help when they are published. :o |
Post by splinters // Jun 14, 2007, 8:48am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Norm, you just keep coming up with these cool screen grabs....genius...:D |
Post by mykyl1966 // Jun 14, 2007, 2:17pm
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mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
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Norm, I can see the logic now that I have tried it. Only one problem. the delete tool doesn't delete any of the verts then selected. It works if I choose them manually. I cant for the life of me think where I am going wrong.
Any ideas?
Cheers
Mike R |
Post by Norm // Jun 14, 2007, 2:23pm
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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Try duplicating my scenario.
The Delete tool is shown in the image. Is this the tool you use or are you using the delete-key on keyboard? |
Post by mykyl1966 // Jun 14, 2007, 4:24pm
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mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
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I was using that delete tool which has an icon of a cube with a red cross on it and it says delete when you hover the mouse over it. Of course on model view there is an actual delete vertex button. I have not found similar in Workspace. Just Delete. (The delete key deletes the object)
I Tried it with an actual sphere this time and it works. Try it with a cube that has a number of sections. Mine is 10x10x10. For this it doesn't work.
Sorry I took so long to get back to you. I have been going through the manual piece by piece as I should have done when I got Ts 7.5 in the first place.
Thanks
Mike R |
Post by Tiles // Jun 14, 2007, 8:47pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Hmm. Was quicker and cleaner in TS 6.6.
1) Select Edgeloop
2) Erase Vertices
Done.
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ext/deleteedgeloop.jpg
Also, no destroyed topology left as you show in your above shot. Just the loopedges and its vertices are gone. As it should be.
With the current workspace method you also delete the edges that crosses the loop. And so you forgot to add the steps to connect the now deleted edges again. Which means you need six steps, not only five. And this sixth step can be enourmous work.
This current method with switching between different settings is also this unclear that you surely will never be able to find it out without an advice. |
Post by Norm // Jun 15, 2007, 4:00am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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Norm, you just keep coming up with these cool screen grabs....genius...:D
Thanks Paul, I appreciate the vote of confidence :) |
Post by mykyl1966 // Jun 15, 2007, 7:55am
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mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
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Norm,
Did you try it with a cube shape? Do you also find that it only works on a sphere?
Cheers
Mike R |
Post by Norm // Jun 15, 2007, 10:05am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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Perhaps it depends how you are doing it, but I just did this same procedure to a cube and was left with a plane. To me that is same scenario as I described. |
Post by mykyl1966 // Jun 15, 2007, 10:34am
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mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
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Now that is strange. If I follow the exact same procedure as I use with a sphere I don not get the same result. Perhaps I will do a video so you can see exactly what I am doing and therefore a problem.
Well I did a video showing me doing the sphere then the cube. Exactly the same steps.
Cheers
Mike R |
Post by Tiles // Jun 15, 2007, 8:47pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Confirming. Cube, selecting edgeloop, convert to vertices, pressing delete, and it doesn't delete the vertices nor the edges. Same scene with a sphere, same steps, it deletes the vertices and edges. Would call it a bug :)
While still at it, is there a way just to delete the vertices without to delete the crossing edges? Because it worked that way in TS 6.6. And it can end in enourmous work to reconnect the unnecessary deleted edges then. |
Post by mykyl1966 // Jun 16, 2007, 12:14pm
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mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
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Is this confirmed as a bug or am I doing something wrong?
Cheers
Mike R |
Post by Norm // Jun 17, 2007, 2:41am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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I can not confirm as a bug.
I bring in a cube, right-click and clear the warning message as the cube is turned into an editable mesh.
I select edge loop around top face. Change to vertex selection mode, convert the edge loop to verts, hit delete tool and I am left with a plane object that has been triangulated. |
Post by Norm // Jun 17, 2007, 2:43am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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While still at it, is there a way just to delete the vertices without to delete the crossing edges? Because it worked that way in TS 6.6. And it can end in enourmous work to reconnect the unnecessary deleted edges then.
An edge exists only because it has two vertices to connect to. Remove the verts and you remove the edge. |
Post by mykyl1966 // Jun 17, 2007, 3:09am
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mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
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Norm, I will say to you what you said to me. Follow my instructions carefully. A simple cube is perfectly ok. Did you look at my video and read what I first mentioned. I will quote what I said. "Try it with a cube that has a number of sections. Mine is 10x10x10. For this it doesn't work."
Try it with a cube that is 2x2x2. it will work for the top loop but don't do that try it with a middle loop and it WILL NOT WORK.
Sorry this seems a bit grumpy but unless you actually follow MY instructions you will find that of course you wont get the same result and little bugs will slip through the net. This happens every time. I am purposefully trying to make sure I put exact steps for you guys to follow now instead of just It doesn't work but unless you follow the steps you wont see it.
Cheers
Mike R |
Post by mykyl1966 // Jun 17, 2007, 3:29am
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mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
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Here is a new video showing what you are doing and it working and then what I am saying does NOT work. Please make sure you read my previous post on the preceding page as well.
Cheers
Mike R |
Post by transient // Jun 17, 2007, 3:59am
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I can confirm this as well. It also happens on cylinder objects. Unusually, if you combine a cylinder with a sphere (i.e by adding a sphere in point-edit mode), you can still erase the sphere vertex loops, but not the cylinder ones.
TS seems to have a problem erasing some vertices in these objects when they are selected together and are diametrically opposite each other (i.e 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock on the cylinder loop). I haven't really tested this thoroughly, so don't quote me.
You can still erase them if you do it in smaller grabs.
I am kind of wondering why you would want to do this operation in the first place? All it seems you are doing is mangling the geometry. :confused:
I'm sure you must have a reason or you wouldn't be angry about it, but I would never model something this way. |
Post by nowherebrain // Jun 17, 2007, 5:19am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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The only work around I know of is to weld the edges of the ring to the inside or outside of said loop, you have to do them one by one...(sip of my coffee)...yeah. I do wish it were more elegant, hopefully someday all the loop tools will work properly. I'm still a satisfied customer though. |
Post by mykyl1966 // Jun 17, 2007, 5:49am
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mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
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transient, It all came about when I was building my model and had beveled an edge and alter on realised that it looked very rough when using subd on the model.
My undo history was not far enough back so I asked how to delete a loop without leaving vertices behind.
Norm came up with the way to do it in Truespace in his diagram which I was thankful for but when I tried it on my model it wouldn't delete them. I then tried with a sphere as his diagram showed and it worked. So I then tried it with a cube and once again it failed.
I think I got a bit grumpy about it as it seemed he had not followed what I said or watched my short video showing the exact problem.. Not really a problem as I know they are very busy but at the same time if bug reports are not followed correctly then that would seem to show why certain silly bugs get left behind in the application. This is not a dig at Norm or anyone else just an observation I made.
Its not elegant. Not at all. In fact it would leave the problem of then having to rebuild certain edges that were removed as well.
A more useful workflow would be select the loop as edges and press delete and it removes the loop and the vertices in one go. That would leave any crossing edges behind as you would expect.
Cheers
Mike R
Anyway |
Post by Vizu // Jun 17, 2007, 6:49am
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Vizu
Total Posts: 628
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tiles ! 100 % agree.
For me it looks like a bug or like a wrong way.
Unbeliveable that the latest version of TS makes all more complicated. |
Post by Tiles // Jun 17, 2007, 7:00am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Originally Posted by Tiles View Post
While still at it, is there a way just to delete the vertices without to delete the crossing edges? Because it worked that way in TS 6.6. And it can end in enourmous work to reconnect the unnecessary deleted edges then.
An edge exists only because it has two vertices to connect to. Remove the verts and you remove the edge.
An edge exists because of two connected vertices. correct. Now imagine the situation that you have three vertices at this edge. One vertice in the middle. Does deleting the middle vertice mean to delete the edges? Must it really be that deleting an vertice has to kill all edges in reach?
This wasn't the case in previous versions. Why now? Has TS 1-6.6 always handled it the wrong way?
I can not confirm as a bug.
I bring in a cube, right-click and clear the warning message as the cube is turned into an editable mesh.
I select edge loop around top face. Change to vertex selection mode, convert the edge loop to verts, hit delete tool and I am left with a plane object that has been triangulated.
We are not talking about the top loop here. We are talking about a divided cube. Then selecting an edgeloop in the middle somewhere. And it doesn't work for two independand people. When that doesn't proof it as a bug i don't know what will ;) |
Post by stan // Jun 17, 2007, 7:30am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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a vertice removed will remove adjoining edges, even in ts66, but this new way of removing edges and leaving vertices should be optional not the only way..in one test I did it left a lone vertice in the middle of a face with no adjoining edges,why? to keep the shape the same?
I think deleting a row of vertices effectively cuts the object in two with a gap, but is one face . |
Post by Tiles // Jun 17, 2007, 7:47am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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a vertice removed will remove adjoining edges, even in ts66, unless it is only connecting two edges, ...
Well. I have posted a screenshot a few postings above what happens when removing an edgeloop in TS 6.6. By removing the edgeloop the edges of the loop plus the vertices are gone. But NOT the edges that crossed the loop. As it should be. This completely deleting of all edges that touches the vertices simply makes no sense historywise nor featurewise.
TS 1 up to TS 6.6 never completely deleted an edge when you deleted the middle vertice of an edge with three vertices. Like it is the case with an edgeloop. That for history.
Featurewise it makes no sense because you have to readd this much edges to connect the remaining edges again than you have removed by removing the edgeloop. So why delete the edgeloop at all? Why not better simply delete the loop edges one by one? It's nearly the same work.
Or better said, i will simply never touch 7.5 for this need then. Why be this crazy to reconnect edges that shouldn't be deleted? Current way of deleting an edgeloop is as useful as bevel, sweep and many other current modeling functions: completely useless.
EDIT, Forgot to answer this one:
I'm sure you must have a reason or you wouldn't be angry about it, but I would never model something this way.
Yup. Sometimes you need some helper loops to insert a window in a wall of a building for example. When done remove the not longer needed construction helper loops ... ;) |
Post by stan // Jun 17, 2007, 8:01am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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remember edgeloop selection was not a caligari tool, but ck games polytools..and yes did it by deleting vertices in the edgeloop too |
Post by nowherebrain // Jun 17, 2007, 2:09pm
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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I thought the tool reacted a bit like the polytools version...now I know. It was an outstanding effort for one person, but as a corp. I expect a little better from my loop controls....someday hopefully, we will get a loop re-write. |
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