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So I wanna make an Atmosphere for my Earth..
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So I wanna make an Atmosphere for my Earth.. // New Users
Post by om1nous // Jun 15, 2007, 3:48am
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om1nous
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Hi all,
I'm just trying to get my feet wet with 7.5.1 and I've set out to make an Earth model. I have a use for it and figured I'd start with something seemingly simple.
This is a general request for any tips in constructing this model :D. I would like it to be as good of a model of Earth as possible!
I can slap an Earth texture around a sphere and align it with the UV Editor (after applying the stock spherical UV map to it). It looks ok. My questions come in on adding a little bit of polish to the model to make it more interesting.
First question would be what kind of material should I use in general? I spent a bit of time playing with DirectX textures in the link editor last night only to go hit VRay render and the alpha effects didn't work! So I assume I should NOT be using a DirectX texture.. which should I use that will translate through to the renderer correctly? I assume being I want to use the VRay rendered, I should use all VRay materials?
Second, how would anyone go about creating a 'clouds/atmosphere' effect around the whole earth? I tried duplicating the earth sphere and making it a smidge bigger as well as applying a cloud texture (a proper earth cloud texture for global wrapping). It is a grayscale map where whites represent clouds, blacks (or non-white) represents what should be transparent (it's, an alpha mask basicly, but also a texture). How can I get truespace to 'knock out' the gray areas, like a color key? I did it with just playing with the alpha blend object in the directX texture I made but the transparency only rendered in the workspace view, it didn't work in VRay.
Thanks for any tips! I'd love to know how to make the water look shiny but the land not reflect light and how to apply bump mapping! I have textures for all of these, I'm just trying to figure out how to apply them :D |
Post by om1nous // Jun 15, 2007, 4:59am
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om1nous
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To clarify with some images, this is my problem.. I'm using a DX9 texture-thingie and I'm using the alpha shader example directly out of the manual (but with my own bitmap applied to it). It works just fine in the workspace but upon render, you can see that the alpha isn't working at all. I'm using the VRay 1.5.1 with either ScanLine or RayTracing with VRay selected. In the screen you also see I played around with Lightworks and such also, no luck either..
Click on the thumbnail below for a 1920x1200 version:
http://www.ertp.com/test/dx9alpha.jpg (http://www.ertp.com/test/dx9alphabig.jpg)
Here are the alpha shader settings the manual has me do (aside one step the manual forgot to mention, which was hooking up the bitmap input). Anyhow the alpha shader seems to work fine in the workspace but why is it screwing up in the render?
The (resized) alpha object:
http://www.ertp.com/test/alphashade.jpg
Thanks for any input! Not sure if I should be using another type of material but so far I can only figure out how to get DX9 material to do what I want.
edit:
Bonus points, I can't even seem to find the place where you specify the background color on the render. I wanted to set it to black (like space) and I figured that would be in the render settings. I see it says the background is set to color in the drop-down, but where do I configure that color? I can't click on the word background and get it to pop up a color dialog *shrug* |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 15, 2007, 5:15am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Hi om1nous,
Just a thought...
You said you are using your own bitmap and a similar thing happened to me once before in another 3D Application (although not in Vray it still may apply).
Is the "bitmap you are using in Truevison Targa (.tga) Format? If not, that may be the issue due to the fact that Targa files actually store alpha channels well and some formats don't support it correctly or at all.
If the bitmap is not a Targa file and you have PaintShop Pro or Photoshop or something similarly powerful for a 2D Bitmap Editor, then create a new alpha channel for it from luminousity and save it out as a Targa - then apply the new targa for alpha and retry your render in Vray.
Just a hunch, but it could hold the real key to the issue.;)
Hope that helps,
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 15, 2007, 5:29am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Bonus points, I can't even seem to find the place where you specify the background color on the render. I wanted to set it to black (like space) and I figured that would be in the render settings. I see it says the background is set to color in the drop-down, but where do I configure that color? I can't click on the word background and get it to pop up a color dialog *shrug*
(1) Right-Click the Vray Render Icon. In the Stack on the right you will see that the "Panels" stack opens with your render settings.
(1b) Pull / Drag the left edge of that stack view fully until you see drop down arrows on the right of it.
(2) Under "Photo Render" skip down until you see "Render Engine." Look to the right of that and if it says "Lightworks.tsr" use the dropdown arrow immediately to the right of that and select "Vray.tsr"
(3) Go up to the top of the Stack Panel (where it says "PhotoRender") and just to the right of that use your mouse to depress the word "Default"
(4) A dropdown menu shows "Default" and "Background" - Select "Background," then double click on the actual color swatch to the right of the words "Background Color" to set any color you like.
(5) Render away! :D
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by om1nous // Jun 15, 2007, 5:37am
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om1nous
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First off thank you for showing me where the background color was! I'm not sure why it's nested in that drop-down but I'm sure there's a reason :confused:
Anyhow also thank you for the tips on the TGA texture. I went in photoshop and took these images, originally JPEGs, and made a TGA of the clouds. I added an alpha channel and copied the bitmap in (as it already was grayscale) and saved it out as 2 different versions, 24bit and 32bit TGAs. Unfortunately it didn't change anything :(. I still get the same exact black areas where alpha transparency should be.
http://www.ertp.com/test/alphamap.jpg (http://www.ertp.com/test/alphamapbig.jpg)
I added the new TGA (in both 24bit and 32bit) to both the bitmap in the TextureShader and the ConsAlphaTex alpha shader itself. I first did it to the alpha shader, then updated the TextureShader (for the color shader) after it didn't work just to see if it would help. Neither did anything so I suppose my issue is not related to it being a TGA or JPG?
Thanks anyhow and if you have any more tips I'd love to hear them! |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 15, 2007, 5:39am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Oh...
one other nice little thing...
when you save a scene with a background color or image set in the manner I just explained those settings are saved along with that scene so you don't need to set it up again if you open it a month from now... it will all be as it should be. :D (Thank you Caligari Devs for that!!!)
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by om1nous // Jun 15, 2007, 5:44am
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om1nous
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Haha good I had hoped so. I still say it's an odd place to put the background color but this is the second thing I've seen nested into a curious drop-down. The other thing I was curious about putting in a hidden drop-down was inference snapping. Not sure why these places are ideal for this stuff but at least I'm getting used to looking in drop-downs now :D
Thanks again and if anyone has any idea why the alpha channel isn't working I'd love to know! |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 15, 2007, 5:45am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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That's a bummer.
I was hoping it was only that but apparently there's something else going on then.:(
Hang in there, there's lots of folk here with much more rendering savvy than I have and I'm sure somebody here will come to your rescue on this!
Glad to help with the background color anyway, that one had me stumped a while ago myself until somebody came to my rescue here!;)
Best of luck in the meantime!
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by om1nous // Jun 15, 2007, 5:52am
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om1nous
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Thanks again!
And hey, any other ideas/tips you have on making the Earth a bit more realistic, I'm all ears ;). I wanted to add a bit of a glow but I was planning on doing that in After Effects afterwards, not really knowing if TS is good for that sort of thing. I'm also unsure if I should add in a sun (light) and work that angle on it before I render it or add the lighting effects in After Effects.. I'd also like to get the 'shine' off the earth altogether but even setting the shininess setting up very high, it just makes the shine smaller (it's basicly making the earth reflect as if it's smooth glass when I'm looking for more of a plastic/phong look). Ideas on any of those effects or is that all found in the manual, elsewhere than the surfacing tutorial?
edit:
I'm definitely up for other suggestions on how to perform the clouds over the globe! I have no idea what would be the best practice for doing this but I had hoped to place the cloud layer a little higher than the earth so when I rotate the earth, the clouds can be animated a bit seperately. Also wanted there to appear like there was a little depth difference between the clouds and the earth. Though I'm not sure I executed it as best.
Again all I did was place one slightly smaller sphere inside another sphere. The smaller sphere has the earth texture on it. The slightly larger sphere has the clouds applied to it. In the workspace view it has the effect I desired to some extent.
Though as we know, an atmosphere works differently.. On earth we have the land and sea masses. Then we have miles of gasses on the surface until we get to the outer atmosphere. I'm uncertain how to add in that type of atmosphere in TS. The land/sea masses are fine as a sphere (esp with a normal map for interest on land height). The clouds being in another sphere seems like it will work to some extent, albeit the clouds themselves are not 'gas' in the physical sense, just 2D textures placed on a 3D sphere, so when the camera 'pokes' through them, they instantly disappear, as they are not 3-dimensional. Also there is no gaseous 'atmosphere' between the clouds and the earth land mass itself. Is there some kind of property/shader that would make a translucent gaseous-esque atmosphere appearance?
How would you all execute this Earth? Thanks in advance! |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 15, 2007, 6:02am
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3dvisuals dude
Total Posts: 1703
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Just 1 more thought...
I wonder if it was in the way the alpha channel was created/layered by the 2D Software... hmmmm. :confused:
You might try posting a zipfile of the image here in a reply to your own thread so people can try to sort out the issue themselves rather than them just guessing like I tend to do here too much! ;)
Anyhow I'll leave the solution to more talented renderers here and there's plenty of them!
Best of luck,
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by parva // Jun 15, 2007, 6:07am
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parva
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"earth" : there is a nice feature in this forum called "SEARCH FUNCTION" :D
For the alpha transp. prob.. You should choose what you want. A pure hardware accelerated DX9 shader version or a software render based version with Lightworks/Vray etc.. Not all DX shader are supported to render correctly in the software based renderer. |
Post by om1nous // Jun 15, 2007, 6:14am
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om1nous
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What I can't seem to convey is that I guess I dont know how to switch between a hardware DX9 shader and something that will render. I don't know why there's a difference between them or why the renderer doesn't support it, but how do I change to something that will render properly? I dont care if it looks right in workspace, I just want it to work on the render!
And I found the interactive earth post (that you're in) via searching. Thanks for that! I'm examining it now but it seems at the bottom of the post he mentioned he used DX shaders also?
edit:
Yep I loaded his interactive earthWClouds object and it also has the same issue, won't render in vray, just works in the workspace.
I'm struggling with understanding why anyone would make something that works in workspace but not in a render. I can only assume it's because they want to work on it while viewing it, but intend on swapping textures out to something that renders later? Or they're exporting this stuff out to game models who can make use of the DX9 textures?
I'm trying to make an Earth that I can render out.. :) |
Post by Ambrose // Jun 15, 2007, 6:29am
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Ambrose
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DX9 is for live shows or live animations if you want ;)
You should allways start with chosing the render you need and stay within it's shaders.
Looks good by the way :)
SeYa/Ambrose... |
Post by om1nous // Jun 15, 2007, 8:08am
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om1nous
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Hmm ok, so if I plan on using Vray then I should use all Vray textures? I read the entire surfacing part of the manual (workspace) and I didn't get more than the absolute basics of editing in the link editor. I didn't see anything in it regarding how to set up a Vray texture but they did take a directX texture into the link editor and changed things. This is why I worked with a directX texture, because they showed me how ;)
In using similar concepts in the link editor, I can't seem to get the proper result. I have blanks in my mind that need filling, left from the manual. The directX isn't even covered very well. I had to achieve what I wanted by experimentation rather than having a reference that explains everything in the interface.
The manual suffers from the usual 'assumptive' nature of learning. Caligari is relying on older manuals to provide details on things like creating a texture using the old lightworks material components. Instead of including that information in the manual itself, it's left out and you're expected to go hunt that information down, or just be an existing user of truespace who should already know all this stuff. The manual is excessively assumptive in this nature and it makes learning all of this stuff the first time unnecessarily difficult. This obviously puts off adoption on many levels and disinterests people from trying a new product in the first place.
So now I will have to drag every VRay texture into the link editor and start examining how the effect was performed. That or come here and ask how materials are put together or where to find a link to an old TS manual that will explain these older TS concepts. I have no idea is Caligari actually thinks this is a good way of learning, but I have to admit, I find it irritating, and it should be irritating to all of you who have to read these nonsense posts that should never exist. Because these concepts are fundamental to using trueSpace, and they're not in the manual at all. |
Post by SteveBe // Jun 15, 2007, 8:54am
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SteveBe
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Hi om1nous,
1. Start by using the ME Inspect on your cloud mesh.
2. This will bring up the Material Editor (ME), and double click the transparency icon.
3. This will bring up the Vray transparency shaders. Double click the Mapped Transparency icon.
4. This will bring up the transparency settings, click the grey bar to open your alpha map.
5. Click the ME paint object icon to apply your texture. |
Post by TomG // Jun 15, 2007, 9:24am
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TomG
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Quick note on why you need to choose different shaders (quite quick for time pressure reasons!)
A renderer takes the definition of a scene (ie geometry, lighting, surfacing) and turns that into an image.
Anything that shows you an image is a renderer - your "offline" renderers like Lightworks and V-Ray, but then so is your real-time renderer. Just because it does it instantly doesnt mean it isnt serving the same role - take the geometry, lighting and surfacing and turn it into a 2D image :)
All renderers are different in how they do their calculations. V-Ray for instance can do blurry, soft reflections (ie the render engine has code to do that). Lightworks cannot (no code in the render engine). Blurry reflections are computationally expensive, and in fact so are reflections, they require raytracing, so the real-time engine doesnt do those either (no code in that render engine).
Naturally each render engine has different code on how to draw the surface. A shader calls upon that code - hence, the soft reflection shader for V-Ray will not work in Lightworks or in real-time, as it is calling upon code that those render engines just dont have.
The same is true of the real-time DirectX renderer - it has access to code that V-Ray and Lightworks don't have (primarily, code that accesses the GPU directly and takes advantage of its built-in routines).
What this means is that shaders should be chosen based on the render engine you are planning the scene for. If it is a real-time scene, the DirectX shaders are the answer. If V-Ray, the V-Ray shaders are the best choice.
Do note that if you are making a scene for V-Ray, then the DirectX shaders look great as you model (since in this case the render engine, the real-time one, is actually what powers your workspace). But of course when you hit render, the V-Ray engine doesnt have that code, so, all your cool real-time effects dont show up in your render at that point (even though youve seen them all along in the real-time renderer).
The confusion arises since the real-time renderer is "always on" - its what lets you manipulate the scene. It helps to think of it as a separate render engine though and always keep that in mind, and to remember that even when you are modeling, you are looking at an "instant render" of your work. And then you remember that since it is a separate render engine, its code and its shaders are not the same as Lightworks and V-Ray too!
Do note finally that there is some cross-over. Simple shaders can be "translated" into their equivalents, so if you just use plain Phong, then it should look pretty much the same in all 3 engines.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by TomG // Jun 15, 2007, 9:29am
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TomG
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PS - different shininess for land and water, use the Mapped reflectance shaders in V-Ray, layered shaders in Lightworks. Turn your texture for land and water into a greyscale and use it as the map to control shininess etc.
For atmosphere, use a sphere a shader that is sensitive to the angle between viewer and object is a great choice. Some exist for Lightworks (some of mine in Shaderlab for instance). If they dont exist in real-time, they sure could be created. This will make the atmosphere appear at the "edge" of the planet and not when you look straight down at it, giving that "glow around the planet" look.
Clouds, another sphere that uses an image as a transparency map.
These multiple layered spheres should look great!
Oh and a bump map on the original planet, to stop it looking like a highly polished marble :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by om1nous // Jun 15, 2007, 9:58am
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om1nous
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SteveBe
Thank you! I threw a random VRay material on the sphere with my cloud texture on it. I always saw in screenshots that there was some caligari texture option for the 'color' of the vray material in screenshots but didn't know how to get it. I double clicked as you said on the color and the transparency portions and configured them as you said to get my texture set up and it worked great! Thank you!!
http://www.ertp.com/test/vrayalpha.jpg (http://www.ertp.com/test/vrayalphabig.jpg)
It works now!
TomG~
Can you put this information in the manual in the surfacing section?
Anyhow since early truespace, the same basicly properties have existed for materials. They largely haven't changed in 'effect' at all, they just change in implementation and quality of render. Bump mapping (or normal mapping or displacement mapping, pick a term!), specularity, color map and alpha map have been in the game forever, so why a DirectX, VRay or ANY rendering engine wouldn't support it is a bit odd to me.
I understand each of them have their own way of setting up the effect. Some require different parameters than others and have extra features. But the way trueSpace is interacting with these engines and how it handles materials is a bit strange and ineffecient to me.
To me, trueSpace should (and could) make this a lot more seamless. I think you should create a trueSpace material itself, if you plan on internally supporting multiple engines, and handle mapping these properties properly internally and automatically between each render engine. A trueSpace master texture should support all options of all engines. At that point I set all these maps up one way, all the time, using this single material creation method, and based on the rendering engine I choose, truespace can provide the 'supported' features of the material to the engine.
This is very much like an 'interface' for materials. Therefore people don't need to know or care if they're using directX materials (because they're in workspace in the real-time renderer), LW or VR (or some other new format). This means it passes the real-time engine the directX-compatible material instructions when in Workspace, but then the VRay compatible instructions when I choose to render using VRay. This centralizes material design and puts the work on trueSpace to handle the differences.
Imagine if the only thing people needed to worry about anymore was understanding the limitations of any rendering engine, rather than how to create each different type of material or having to shift between materials in a whole scene just to use the scene live in a truePlace, or offline for a render.. Less work managing things like this means more time to... play and create :D
So do you have a link to a tutorial that can help me create something as seemingly complex as a shader that responds to the view angle of the camera? Yes, the effect of atmosphere should be stronger on the edges and less apparent when looking straight down at earth as you're obviously looking through a great deal more atmosphere. So it should look differently. But creating that sounds complex and just saying it at least indicates that materials could do something like this. However it doesn't help me get it done like a link to a tutorial or a mention that this kind of thing will be covered in the next manual update or such would. Can you point me in a bit of a direction or give me an example?
edit:
Just adding that one of my absolute favorite things about Adobe After Effects is that for the longest time in video applications you needed to have the project specs set correctly and you had to know what format/specs the videos and such you will be working with were. Is your end project NTSC (eg 720x486 0.9par 29.97fps lower field) and are you using all NTSC footage to work with? If not then the video source needed to be interpolated from whatever it was to something compatible with NTSC or it would get garbled in some programs. They just made you do a lot of work to 'set up' to even begin editing. Premiere still requires you to interperate video you work with before placing it on the timeline or it can become garbled.
Enter: After Effects (AE). AE removes my need to care what the footage is anymore. I can drag video of all sizes, pixel aspect ratios, color depths, compression types, fielded or progressive, etc and it lets me use them all as if the project was set up perfectly for that type of video. It renders each video, regardless of its specs, as best as possible. Just that one thing AE does for me lets me focus on editing and creating effects rather than spending time making AE read and display my assets correctly.
This is what I want from truespace. Centralize more and do more behind the scenes to make things seamless in this regard and you will have a LOT more happy artists. |
Post by TomG // Jun 15, 2007, 11:03am
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TomG
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" Bump mapping (or normal mapping or displacement mapping, pick a term!), specularity, color map and alpha map have been in the game forever, so why a DirectX, VRay or ANY rendering engine wouldn't support it is a bit odd to me.
"
Actually tS does already translate these standards over to the other render engines effectively.
The issue arises with the unique shaders that are NOT standard forever, like Gooch shading using the GPU, transparency effects using the GPU, soft reflections, subsurface scattering.
So subsurface scattering has absolutely no equivalent in Lightworks or DX9. There is simply nothing at all similar, the shader can only work in V-Ray. And that is why different shaders are needed.
A more unified editing system would be nice, but again the user would have to be made aware and keep in mind that if they choose Subsurface Scattering, then it is a V-Ray shader exclusively and will not work rendered in real-time or Lightworks.
So the interface I think could be improved, we are always looking for improvements on that side of things, but the concept of different shaders for different engines will still remain - the uniqueness in each engine is exactly why there are different engines of course :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by SteveBe // Jun 15, 2007, 11:06am
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SteveBe
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Your welcome!
As you can see from your own screen capture, this method works for your DX9 display
as well.
The ME is the central way of working with materials in workSpace, but personally
I don't want the interface 'dumbed down' for simplicity sake.
While you were working on this I'm sure your frustration level was high but look at it this way, in the process you learned some things about DX9 shader building that you may not of explored.
ATB
Steve |
Post by weaveribm // Jun 15, 2007, 2:57pm
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weaveribm
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the effect of atmosphere should be stronger on the edges and less apparent when looking straight down at earth as you're obviously looking through a great deal more atmosphere.
-when looking at the limb I think it's called. Quick google- yes that's it
http://sci.gallaudet.edu/daylight.html
So a volumetric-smoke (as it were) sphere enclosing the planet but fading into nothingness further away from the planet
Might help not to see the atmosphere as perfectly linear-density in scope it could get denser in places, layers even way out perhaps
Something like the Saints have around their heads, a halo of light not a solid ring halo more like bloom
What about many transparent spheres like an onion with the planet sitting in the sweet spot. The smallest transparent sphere would be much less transparent than the outermost very transparent sphere, the outermost atmospheric sphere would be very transparent and the background colour could be chosen to render so that no line was visible in the outer limits. Where we will control the horizontal and vertical shaders of your TV
Very interesting and a bit of a challenge :)
Peter
On volumetric smoke
Once up and running, you'll be impressed with the functionality and synergy of the bundle. Four programs, headlined by PyroCluster, which creates true volumetric smoke, fog, fire, clouds, and similar effects, add particle-creation capabilities. You assign these effects to objects or particle systems, including those created by trueParticles, a fellow plug-in.
Less linear fading than you'd think
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/titans_halo_1.jpg |
Post by 3dvisuals dude // Jun 16, 2007, 3:54am
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3dvisuals dude
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So Om1nous...
...now that you've got a great looking Earth model that even looks good in Workspace what are your plans with it?
(hint: TS7.51 didn't have one for us all in its libraries ;) )
Glad it all worked out for ya -
- 3dvisuals dude |
Post by om1nous // Jun 18, 2007, 4:34am
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om1nous
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Thanks for the link and all the input! Yes, the atmosphere and sun creates most of the external portrait of the Earth. By using a color map with things like, blue water, it's already doing things to simulate that which could be performed on a physics level. There will always be a great deal of faking-it until we can get a per-particle physics-level rendering engine ;).
Creating something that resembles an atmosphere is my next task. I didn't think of a cloud volumetric 'sphere' of light because I wasn't aware you could create that in TS. What is it, and what is it called? Is it actually a light, or is it a sphere with a material that creates the effect? Is it producable for VRay or LW or is it a DX9 effect?
My needs for an Earth are simple. I can use the globe I already have for my current needs. The atmosphere is just more learning TS for me. Once I get a good, believable atmosphere on there and support for a night and day texture (per-pixel based on light?) I will gladly upload it for everyone else to use. It's all in good fun to me |
Post by weaveribm // Jun 18, 2007, 5:44am
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weaveribm
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volumetric 'sphere' of light... I wasn't aware you could create that in TS
Not sure if you can do that simply in TS but it describes the feature you're after I think Om. The atmospheric shell can only be seen if light's bouncing off it. You could maybe fake it with shells of semi-transparent material is what I thought perhaps
You know when it's misty and you look at a street light/traffic light and there's the round glowing ball where the atmosphere scatters the light? With very sharp falloff :)
Or sunbeams in a dusty/smoke-filled room, the scattering light becomes visible, occupies a space- a volume. You know this I'm sure, just brainstorming forgive
Hmm thinking on it bloom has a volumetric quality and Bloom is in the 7.5 panel if you have a graphics card that handles Shader Model (2 or 3 I think) in hardware
Peter |
Post by om1nous // Jun 18, 2007, 6:18am
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om1nous
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Ahh gottcha. As far as multiple spheres, you'd get the typical hard line on the circles edges, onion-skin style, unless there was something to soften them up somehow. You'd effectively need a good gradient glow or a blur to some extent to fix the hard lines on the outer edges of all the atmosphere spheres.
I'm nowhere in a position to be able to even think about how to perform it in TS until I get more of the UI under my belt, and know its material capabilities. I will figure it out and when I do I'll be sure to share the technique!
And yep, I know what volumetric light is. And the halo-effect of a street light is just what happens in your eye with the high contrast edge of light and darkness. The light doesn't exist. Though the light in a dusty room does, which is an example of what volumetric light produces. It produces the effect of visible material existing in the path of any form of light (usually directional).
Thanks for your thoughts, I will check out bloom! |
Post by weaveribm // Jun 18, 2007, 9:01am
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weaveribm
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the halo-effect of a street light is just what happens in your eye
You're thinking of an eye condition :) Yes there is that halo too in that eye condition but that's not the one I'm thinking of right now in connection with the atmospherics thing
The volumetric light effect is a real one with light scattering due to the mist enfolding the street lamp, drops of water. Like the dust particles, the motes sliding along the light beam in the room
Coincidentally that's a theme of a song we're working on. The scene is a room in an empty and disused building with boarded-up windows but with gaps between the boards where light penetrates. Sound drifts up from the street below
Dust kicks up and catches the light
In an abandoned room somewhere out of sight
Where lovers spent a single night
Abandoned to love
By love abandoned
In pieces like a jigsaw on the ground was how you found me
Then you played me your piano
And the sound of it
Really turned my head around
I had that image before getting TS7.11 so it's not cheating. The light not the jigsaw :)
Peter |
Post by om1nous // Jun 18, 2007, 9:52am
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om1nous
Total Posts: 0
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Hmm, not sure what effect around a bright light in darkness you're referring to. Maybe I have much cleaner air where I am haha? But there is no glow around any ordinary street lamp that I see, unless it's misty out, in which yes, I'd see the light affecting nearby droplets.
Anyhoo I don't think a volumetric 'light' would work. to achieve a spherical light of some sort you'd need to have an omni direction light in the center of the Earth that has a extremely quick falloff, shortly after the radius of the Earth. Not to mention, light won't go through Earth to create the effect if it starts at the center of it anyhow, unless there's a way to make light ignore certain objects? (It's likely there is a way)
Aside this I presume using a single translucent, blue sphere slightly larger than earth with only say, 5% opacity, will do the same job. IT will tint Earth slightly blue, but my texture can use some of that blue TBH. Straight-on the outer translucent sphere will barely be visible but the more you view it on an angle, the more of the sphere surface your vision pierces and the more blue it'll appear. Kinda the same effect. Though making the edge of the outer blue sphere 'blend' or 'blur' so it's not a hard line is the hard part.. I'll just have to figure it out. |
Post by Leif // Jun 18, 2007, 10:16am
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Leif
Total Posts: 276
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Ill post a link...
http://www.geocities.com/verratta/ts4/atmosphere.html |
Post by om1nous // Jun 18, 2007, 10:57am
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om1nous
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Thanks for the link. It seems to second the idea I already posted about just making a translucent sphere for the atmosphere itself. I didn't know the polarize filter previous to that article so that was very useful, thanks!
I (and that articles author) still have the issue to address of softening the atmospheres hard edges though :( |
Post by weaveribm // Jun 18, 2007, 10:58am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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...there is no glow around any ordinary street lamp that I see, unless it's misty out
That's it
The volumetric light effect is a real one with light scattering due to the mist enfolding the street lamp
Ah I'm in foggy London Town so I probably see more of it than you do... :)
light won't go through Earth to create the effect if it starts at the center of it anyhow, unless there's a way to make light ignore certain objects?
Yes objects take shadows and cast shadows functions
There's an image in here of a Gothic Romance :) in Victorian London (to my eye) house entrance, a gate and outer wall- I think that has volumetric lighting. Ah but volumetric lighting is not a Vray function thinking on it, it's post-processing I think like fog proper. In the right-hand vertical render options toolbar from Lightworks or Virtualight (I think they're called) renderers
Peter |
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