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Anyone got a link editor tutorial?
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Anyone got a link editor tutorial? // New Users
Post by om1nous // Jun 19, 2007, 4:50am
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om1nous
Total Posts: 0
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I'm struggling learning material setup with the new link editor. (or is it new?)
Anyhow have any tutorial links on the link editor or has anyone figured out how to use it that could share some of their knowledge with us new users? Specificly on how to create materials using it..
I read the DX9 workspace surfacing tutorial and did some of the examples and it all worked just fine. I can create DX9 materials without any real trouble. However LW and VRay materials are another story for me specificly. Any help on those would be great!
Thanks and I hope some useful info for everyone pops up! Post anything as you figure things out if you choose to share and I will also! |
Post by Norm // Jun 19, 2007, 5:14am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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When I was spearminting with materials, I would just examine existing scenario. How many levels did it have, what was in each level. What happens if i change this value .... sort of thing.
The LE is a huge area. The biggest element is understanding the levels and how to traverse the whole of trueSpace from a link editor standpoint.
Of course it helps to have the "mad scientist" gene as well :) |
Post by om1nous // Jun 19, 2007, 5:22am
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om1nous
Total Posts: 0
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I'm a programmer so I'm very versed in objects, hierachy and such. I understand that aspect of it very well and it all a great deal of sense. The LE is just a pretty object view with access to properties and scripting for any aspect of a TS object.
I've been dropping the materials on things and have tried to adjust them but I've had very little success getting inputs and outputs to hook up together. Inside of a LW material I cannot get LW color shader outputs to go into LW material color shader inputs, and I really have no idea why. This is why I think I'm missing some vital part of the 'bigger picture'.
For example I thought a color shader input should accept any kind of flat color shader input, or a texture input, as they're both color maps. Though I slap a prefab Vray material on something, jump into it in the LE and drill down to the color shader and you can see a texture shader output supplying the color shader input information. If I break the link between the two and try to re-apply it, I can't even link them together again!
http://www.ertp.com/files/mat1.jpg
If I take the LWColor Shader link in the picture above and break it off the LWMaterial color shader input, and then simply try to re-apply it (in expanded mode of course so you can see it), it won't let me re-apply it! I have no idea why :confused:. Nor can I drag out other LW color or texture shaders and apply it from the library :confused:.
I'm just missing some basic information..
To edit the texture on it and change it to say, a flat color, I had to go into the vray color shaders
http://www.ertp.com/files/mat2.jpg
And drag a solid color into the LE, which didn't even drag a color shader into LE, all it did was send the color to the material editor :confused:
http://www.ertp.com/files/mat3.jpg
To get it to apply to the sphere I had to apply the material in the material editor to the sphere while it was selected. Why couldn't I just drag a new color shader into LE and edit it that way :confused:
Was I supposed to edit the texture using the material editor all this time? I figured I could build them completely in the link editor but maybe this is the information I'm missing? |
Post by Norm // Jun 19, 2007, 5:59am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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hmmm ... been mentioned elsewhere on forums but perhaps again is helpful.
If you type: RsApp.Help() in a command prompt window, a couple of files are created in your \ts folder:
RsCmdDoc.xml
RsNodeDoc.xml
In theory, you should be able to parse those docs and get an idea of what and why connectors are not being allowed to connect.
I am told that the files need some updating, however basic material scenario should be well covered.
Hope this helps with bigger picture :) |
Post by om1nous // Jun 19, 2007, 7:15am
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om1nous
Total Posts: 0
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Cool I'll take a look! Got a command reference for any other command prompt commands people might find useful, such as this?
Thanks for the inside info! |
Post by trueBlue // Jun 19, 2007, 7:35am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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If you have not already downloaded the Developers Document it may prove helpfull. The document itself needs updating too. May help with trueSpace material creation as well as there is a basic tutorial.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=2334&postcount=4 (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=2334&postcount=4)
Here is a Link Editor Navigator I made that might prove useful in navigating the Link Editor/trueSpace enviroment.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=35795&postcount=11 (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=35795&postcount=11) |
Post by frootee // Jun 19, 2007, 7:44am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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*****If I take the LWColor Shader link in the picture above and break it off the LWMaterial color shader input, and then simply try to re-apply it (in expanded mode of course so you can see it), it won't let me re-apply it! I have no idea why . Nor can I drag out other LW color or texture shaders and apply it from the library . *****
Hi Om1nous. I think I might understand the problem here.
Are you Deleting a link by pressing the Delete key, or are you clicking on a link (the wire part), and moving it away from an output connector? I believe there's a difference.
Also, just before you disconnect a link while you are inside a sub-object, look to the right end of the link. Is there a "blue?" output connector? And, after you disconnect the link, does the blue connector disappear? If it disappears, it sounds like you're deleting the output connector as well, somehow. Just something to look for. If you're deleting it, you probably need to add another in its place.
Another keyword to investigate: EXPORT. There's a slight difference between exporting and adding output connectors I believe (trying to do this off the top of my head). That may also provide some clues to the issue here.
HTH!
Frootee |
Post by om1nous // Jun 19, 2007, 9:07am
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om1nous
Total Posts: 0
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trueBlue~
Thanks for the link on the developers manual, I will give that a look over! And I saw some of the LE editor hierachy shortcut UI mods and I had wondered to myself if there was a lot easier way to get around the LE without having to hit the orange triangle 500 times to get out of a complex object haha.. I thought I was crazy and couldn't find shortcuts to do it but I guess they don't exist. I hope they make some quicker ways to get into the LE of the selected object (aside the custom mod) that's built into TS to make traversing it much easier!
Frootee~
I was simply left-clicking on one side or the other on the actual link wire itself, and it turned green and disconnected itself from the side I pulled it from. I figured that was not a 'delete' means, just a temporary disconnect. But if I just do this (and the link wire is still connected to the other side), and I go back and try to reconnect it, it won't work. I never take my finger off the button to let the wire go or anything, it just won't reconnect!
I understand you can edit objects and do things like remove (and add) parts of them. I wasn't deleting the output (or export). And the output/export is always blue, yes? The input is red.. I always used a blue export/output (almost always at the bottom of the object) and tried to connect it to the proper input (like color shader to color shader), or a 'like' connector (like bitmap/texture to a color shader).
Another odd thing is I can edit the material in the LE (for a LW or Vray material) and any changes I did would not be reflected on the model. I could change the texture (bitmap) of a color map (like the caligari texture object) by ctrl-clicking on the bitmap and selecting another JPEG or whatever on my system. In the LE the bitmap changes, though the model itself doesn't get changed.
If I did this on a DX9 texture in LE, it works. However not if I do it on a LW or Vray material in LE.
Does all this sound right? |
Post by frootee // Jun 19, 2007, 9:31am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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hm... well, I'm kinda stumped.
Do you have the same problem with attaching/reattaching links with other object parameters, or just the material ones? I'll have to try this at home tonight.
Dele has done a considerable amount of work with the link editor, as well as texture stuff in the link editor I believe.
Here is a link to a forum discussion in which Dele talks about building textures in the LE. Hopefully it may help.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=3267
He has also created a video tutorial on procedural animation with the LE. Norm has also done some scripting tutorials. They are kinda pricey at the moment but they usually have sales.
HTH!
Frootee |
Post by trueBlue // Jun 19, 2007, 10:11am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Well if you look at my Link Editor Navigator it does indeed make traversing the LE much easier. There is no predifined shortcuts, but you can make them several ways. Basically they are trueSpace commands. Easiest way is to make a Button with the correct command. Then you can right click the button to assign a shortcut. As far as the commands goes what little I know has been by using the jScript macro recorder. trueBlue~
Thanks for the link on the developers manual, I will give that a look over! And I saw some of the LE editor hierachy shortcut UI mods and I had wondered to myself if there was a lot easier way to get around the LE without having to hit the orange triangle 500 times to get out of a complex object haha.. I thought I was crazy and couldn't find shortcuts to do it but I guess they don't exist. I hope they make some quicker ways to get into the LE of the selected object (aside the custom mod) that's built into TS to make traversing it much easier! |
Post by frootee // Jun 19, 2007, 10:22am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Hey Trueblue.
Nice. I will check out your solution tonight!
Frootee |
Post by Cayenne // Jun 19, 2007, 10:59pm
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Cayenne
Total Posts: 144
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I've been dropping the materials on things and have tried to adjust them but I've had very little success getting inputs and outputs to hook up together. Inside of a LW material I cannot get LW color shader outputs to go into LW material color shader inputs, and I really have no idea why. This is why I think I'm missing some vital part of the 'bigger picture'.
For example I thought a color shader input should accept any kind of flat color shader input, or a texture input, as they're both color maps. Though I slap a prefab Vray material on something, jump into it in the LE and drill down to the color shader and you can see a texture shader output supplying the color shader input information. If I break the link between the two and try to re-apply it, I can't even link them together again!
If I take the LWColor Shader link in the picture above and break it off the LWMaterial color shader input, and then simply try to re-apply it (in expanded mode of course so you can see it), it won't let me re-apply it! I have no idea why :confused:. Nor can I drag out other LW color or texture shaders and apply it from the library :confused:.
I'm just missing some basic information..
To edit the texture on it and change it to say, a flat color, I had to go into the vray color shaders
And drag a solid color into the LE, which didn't even drag a color shader into LE, all it did was send the color to the material editor :confused:
To get it to apply to the sphere I had to apply the material in the material editor to the sphere while it was selected. Why couldn't I just drag a new color shader into LE and edit it that way :confused:
Was I supposed to edit the texture using the material editor all this time? I figured I could build them completely in the link editor but maybe this is the information I'm missing?
Hi, Both the Vray and the LW materials are not currently editable by relinking the components in the Link editor in the same way as the DX materals, ie they are non editable from inside the LE.
In this case the LE is serving as a storage and holding place for the Material editor panels (interface ) in the stack to allow for the materials to be edited and manipulated.
So yes in the case of VRay an LW the only way to edit the material is through the Material editor which shows in the stack. |
Post by om1nous // Jun 20, 2007, 3:11am
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om1nous
Total Posts: 0
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Is this information in the manual and I missed it? Otherwise I'd definitely include it, even though I presume you plan on making LE editing support in the future.
Anyhoo thanks for the info! I don't have any issue using the ME, everything is working fine now :D |
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