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Mannikin Out Of Control
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Mannikin Out Of Control // New Users
Post by johnhoward // Sep 22, 2007, 6:38am
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johnhoward
Total Posts: 231
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Using Windows Vista and TrueSpace 7.51...
I have been trying for 2-3 weeks to make a simple mannikin that I can pose. I started with the mannikin that came with the program, but it could not be posed in workspace using the dynapose tool where I can watch the shadows, so I deconstructed it - tossed the model side skeletin and unglued the pieces, modified some and re-built and made a new skeletin in workspace.
Every time I tried to move it, the trunk would leap up, shortening the neck, elongating the belly, and distorting the two shoulders.
I decided to get a new graphics card (which did solve some other problems) and decided to rebuild the mannikin from scratch with all new pieces. Same problem.
I tried it leaving the mannikin as separate unglued pieces (A) (the trunk still being a union of 5 pieces: central shape + 4 sheres).
I tried gluing the separate pieces - arms, hips, limbs, etc, all glued together with trunk.
I tried a union of all pieces to form a single skin (B)
I tried locking both trunk and hips before touching the mannikin with the dynapose tool (C).
I tried uninstalling and reinstalling TrueSpace - twice!
Nothing works. As soon as I click on a joint or bone with the dynapose tool - even a leg bone while trunk and hips are locked (C), the trunk leaps up to some sort of weird default position, wrecking my mannikin (D). This is especially weird when the mannikin skin is a single object (B). Somehow TrueSpace remembers the trunk as a separate object to be shifted upwards.
Building figures and posing them in architecture with real-time shadows was my whole reason for spending all this money and time. The mannikin has suggested we get a rope and find Bill Gates, Michael Dell and Roman Ormandy. I think he's probably being rash.
Anything you can tell me to calm him down would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again. |
Post by trueBlue // Sep 22, 2007, 7:30am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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If you upload your Mannikin, I will take a look and see if I can help. |
Post by johnhoward // Sep 22, 2007, 8:17am
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johnhoward
Total Posts: 231
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Thanks, True Blue. The Object file (let alone the Scene file) exceeds the 2MB uploading limit, so I am sending it in a Zip archive.
I have saved a series of scenes:
Mannikin
1) as separate pieces - no bones yet
2) as some pieces in union - such as trunk (main + 4 spheres)
3) as unions and other pieces all glued
4) as all pieces in union - 1 skin
5) all of the above with bones unattached
6) all of the above with bones attached
For now, I am sending mannikin as one union skin with bones attached, but let me know if you would like to see any other version, as object or scene.
Thanks again |
Post by trueBlue // Sep 22, 2007, 9:03am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Okay the first thing I notice is that you did not set the Default Pose.
In the Character Editor toolbar is Set pose as default.
There is also Reset Pose which after you set the default pose will reset it.
I would suggest that you create handles w/ locks to make it easier to pose your character. Load up the Bobby character for an example. Bobby has named Bones, Joints, and Handles for easy identification. In the Manual is a tutorial about Handles and Locks plus a video.
So number one load this character that you supplied here, make sure it is selected, select the Dyna Pose tool, select the Set pose as default tool.
Then proceed to add Locks and Handles. If you need more help just ask. |
Post by johnhoward // Sep 22, 2007, 9:27am
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johnhoward
Total Posts: 231
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TrueBlu,
All those experiments have been run. Nothing works. The reset pose button does bring the pose back to the original, but does not undo the error of the trunk shifting up, which occurs with the first attempt at any movement.
Adding handles at wrists and ankles which are associated with locks on trunk and hip work fine, but the error occurs the moment I use them. I can "undo" the error, but only after several undos, which undo some of the other work, such as the adding of handles and locks.
I am curious. Now that you have the mannikin, is it acting as I describe on your computer too?
Thanks again for your time. |
Post by trueBlue // Sep 22, 2007, 10:01am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Yes I do see what you mean and it does happen here too on XP. But why is a wild guess. Only thing I can think of is how you Unioned the three spheres to the trunk. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Sep 22, 2007, 10:01am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Something you might want to try is to add a keyframe for the skeleton at frame 0, that has been helpful for some in cases of odd keyframe interpolation.
Also you may want to try to set joint limits so that the skeleton can only deform in ways that would be natural to the human body. |
Post by johnhoward // Sep 22, 2007, 12:24pm
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johnhoward
Total Posts: 231
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Thanks again. I tossed the union trunk and rebuilt with no union so trunk was original single and simple piece. Error still occured. Then I tossed trunk entirely and replaced with a new simpler non-union (scab?) shape. That worked, but I don't know why.
If this ever happens again, I'm just going to toss the piece that is affected and rebuild it.
Jack, I did not try your keyframe idea, but will next time before I toss and rebuild.
What a pain in the mannikin. Thanks again. |
Post by Burnart // Sep 23, 2007, 1:53pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Have you moved the joints after attaching the mesh? I might be barking up the wrong tree but every time I have tweaked the joint position or angles I've re-attached the mesh because I just assumed it would be problematic not to. Then click the set default pose button. (NOT the reset to default pose!)
Also, are you using the object to bone method or attach skin? It looks like an object to bone project to me in which case all the individual bits should (I think) be separate objects to begin with.
There is a certain amount of stretch and squash built into the bone system (I think, based on my limited experience!) Don't know if that can be turned off. |
Post by opiejuan // Sep 24, 2007, 11:30am
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opiejuan
Total Posts: 120
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First let me say that I do not have tS7.x yet, so I cannot speak like I know how the animation tools are working now, but this problem reminds me of a similar problem we had in earlier versions. So just in case I thought I'd chime in.
What we found in tS5 and 6.x was that tS would sometimes set what I called an invisible or phantom deform keyframe when creating a mesh and this keyframe did not show up in the KFE. Yet if that keyframe was not cleared similar strange behavour could drive a guy bonkers. I remember having sections of a mesh fly off in random directions but was not quite the same as the old total mesh explosion thingy. It was more like one section would move and leave the rest intact.
Like I said, I do not know if this is still the case or if the fix we found will work either, but to remove the phantom deform keyframe you would have to enter point edit mode on the mesh in question and when the pop up window would ask if you wanted to clear the deform animation say 'yes'. That was the only indication that there actually was a keyframe set and the only way to clear it. Also, this had to be performed on the un-boned mesh.
If all this is just silly talk and does not apply to tS7.x then .... Never Mind :)
I hope you figure it out,
Opie |
Post by trueBlue // Sep 24, 2007, 11:39am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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When I checked his Mannequin there was no Animation. With that I could confirm the same problem that he was seeing. I believe it was because of the Boolean used and the Topology of the the wire mesh. Just a guess. See post #6. |
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