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separate selected faces
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separate selected faces // New Users
Post by andras // Feb 4, 2008, 10:24am
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andras
Total Posts: 111
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Hi again :o
I would have an car model and some probleme with this.
http://www.andras2.extra.hu/window.JPG
You can see the left hand side window screen and the door. Unfortunately the two is one. how can I separate selected faces from an object. So I get two object from one. So the result will be an searated door and window.
Or would be an other solution that I add an other material for the selected faces. Is it possible? |
Post by TomG // Feb 4, 2008, 12:05pm
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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The geometry there looks pretty nasty - I take it this is imported from another format?
You may well run into problems with this model as the geometry is invalid, and even if a fix works to separate these faces, there may be other problems in there too which could cause anything from odd rendering to crashes. My first thought would be to get the same model in a different import format in case that gets around the problem.
Otherwise, fixing this will be tricky. First thought is to use the Delete Face tool which will erase the face (or what looks like two faces). Next will be to try the Make Face tool to add faces back in, but this may or may not work - it may fill in both holes again. With geometry in this state too, the Delete Face may also cause unexpected results (including a crash).
If the above doesnt work, you can try adding edges across these faces to split them up into smaller faces, then once again try deleting and re-adding. With extra geometry in place, the Delete and Add Face tools may work better.
But to be honest perhaps the best bet here is to start again and rebuild, the geometry looks pretty messy all over and likely to give more problems beyond just this.
EDIT - forgot to add, also try the Fix Bad Geometry tool that may help. And for getting this loaded from another format, see if you can get the model when it is NOT triangulated (automatic triangulation has been done here it seems, resulting in various "long thin" faces that are often bad news for rendering and nowhere near as safe and effective as manually triangulating). If you cant get the model in a different source, you can create a cube that does not touch the object, then use boolean subtract to remove the cube from the object with "Delete Edges" enabled - this boolean a non-touching object trick will remove triangulation where it is not needed, and could simplify the mesh to make it easier to fix this problem (or could even fix the problem directly).
HTH!
Tom |
Post by andras // Feb 5, 2008, 12:10am
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andras
Total Posts: 111
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Thanks ..But my english is not too good and maybe You dont understand me and vice versa. That's why I write it again. Anyway the polygon geometry is good and that is nasty but it dont cause crash in render. I know because I tried it. So..
I have downloaded this 3ds model from another site. And I realised that the door and the window of car is in one block. Well it is not so good because If I would like to add material for this I get some propleme. Because If I add an glass material to this object than the door and window (because the two in one; the two is in one block. )will be glass in the same time but the door should be phong and not glass. Unfortunately I dont know how can I add two material to one object. (in the Blender it is available that I select the polygons then add an material for this selected polygons, and push an ASSIGN. but in TS I have not found this feature yet.)
There is an another solution. If I select the polygons as polygons of window (anyway you can see in my picture the selected polygon of window what are merged) then I would like If this object will be separated. So If I have an separated door and an separated window of car I have not material probleme.( in Blender If you do this. You can select the object --> Edit mode --> select the polygons what you would like to see separated --> push "P" and you get an question: and select "separete to selected" --> and done)
I hope you can see my probleme:) |
Post by hultek43 // Feb 5, 2008, 5:08am
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hultek43
Total Posts: 234
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You can select the face you want to be glass and use the paint face tool, or should be able to in this case. You did not mention which version of trueSpace was being used. |
Post by TomG // Feb 5, 2008, 5:24am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Hi Andras,
Thanks for the extra information! Sounds like it does in fact confirm what I was originally thinking, and my first answer is still relevant :) While the object currently renders ok and you have not had a crash yet, the fact that these two separate "faces" are in fact one face is indeed a problem in the geometry - it has not imported correctly. Whenever you see a face that exists at two locations in space and should be two faces, it means trueSpace is "confused" about the geometry and the model is not defined correctly, and problems will likely happen at some point.
Naturally your first problem is you can't paint these with different materials, as they are both the same face, so either you have car door material in the window, or window material in the car door - this is not due to how trueSpace handles materials, but because the geometry is invalid.
This is why you cannot apply separate materials, as though they appear to be two faces, in terms of the how they are defined to trueSpace, they are in fact one face. You can paint different materials on different faces, but in this case the same material will apply in two places since both are being counted as the same face. You use the Paint Face tool to apply different materials per face (you'll find it in the Material Editor) - but as noted it wont help here.
While you've not had a crash yet and it renders you could have a crash at any time while modeling on this object since something is indeed invalid. If you can get it in OBJ rather than 3DS it should import better.
The same solutions steps apply as in my previous post. If those work to make two separate faces rather than one face at two different locations, then you can use the Paint Face tool to paint the window as glass and the door with car paint.
There is a tool to separate parts of the object - you would use the Point Edit face selection tools, then use Separate Selected Part of Object. Unfortunately, the face selection tools are likely to select this and count both the part in the door and the part in the window as one face. You could try it, selecting all faces in the window with the face selection tools (use Rectangle selection to grab most of them, and then just use CTRL and the paintbrush version of select face to add the rest). Once separated you'll most likely need to follow the steps mentioned below - ie adding a face into the door where one will likely now be missing, and deleting the "one face at two places" in the window and re-adding.
There is once again a fair chance that something will go wrong, from bad normals, to distorting the model, to a crash, when you try the Separate Selected Part of Object, since the geometry here is invalid, but you can try.
Ultimately though, when you see this, it means something is wrong, and still the best option remains to try and get it in OBJ format; then to try detriangulating with non-touching booleans; then to try deleting and adding faces.
HTH!
Tom
EDIT - a quick PS, I am assuming in your first image that you did not manually select two separate faces, which would give the same image - I assume you used Select Face on just one, and got both of them selected at once, and when you paint on the window with Paint Face , it also paints on the door at the location shown in green? |
Post by Jack Edwards // Feb 5, 2008, 8:03am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Hi Andras,
A simple solution you may want to try is to select the face, then choose the Split Polygons tool on Workspace side (it will triangulate the face), then use the delete tool to delete the the extra edges.
Hope that helps! |
Post by Dirk_Fist // Feb 11, 2008, 9:30pm
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Dirk_Fist
Total Posts: 15
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Ok first although the screen shot appears to show invalid geometry, if a face is'nt flat it will occasionally get culled when it should'nt be, but that does'nt mean the geometry is invalid.
Second there is a problem with dx9 shader materials, you can't apply two dx9 shader materials to a single object.
From Andras first post
Unfortunately the two is one. how can I separate selected faces from an object. So I get two object from one. So the result will be an searated door and window.
From Andras second post
And I realised that the door and the window of car is in one block. and later . . .
Unfortunately I dont know how can I add two material to one object.
(Note: The DX9 glass wont render properly in Vray or Lightworks, it is strictly for use with the realtime renderer.)
Three solutions:
1) If you have Vray use the workspace side paint faces tool which will bring up the Vray material editor
11017
2) If you do not have Vray you can use model side material editor to use lightworks material editor which also has a paint faces tool.
11018
3) If you want to use the real time renderer you will need to split the window out from the door. In the workspace make a copy of the door/window in the copy select the window, invert selection, delete faces tool. (this gives you a window object, you will need to fix the geometry on the window ) now on the original door select and delete the window. (you will need to fix the geometry on the door)
Hope this helps :) |
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