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Start with D3D shaders How to?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Start with D3D shaders How to? // New Users
Post by andras // May 2, 2008, 6:56am
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andras
Total Posts: 111
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Hi!
I would like to ask some help for my D3D shader creation. Unfortunately I am full stupid for it :) Where can I start to learn?
Anyway this real time technology is fantastic :D:banana: I Think I will reexplore TS 7.51. |
Post by andras // May 2, 2008, 7:16am
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andras
Total Posts: 111
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Sorry--> I found in Manual. |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 2, 2008, 9:45am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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It's pretty complicated stuff. Let us know if you get stuck Andras. :) |
Post by rjeff // May 3, 2008, 3:07am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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If you ask me jack..based on what I have seen in Parav's tutorials..they make it to complicated.. It is like they went out of their way to make it only understandable to uber graphic gods like Parva... |
Post by andras // May 3, 2008, 4:25am
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andras
Total Posts: 111
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Hi. Are there some improvements in TS's realtime rendering engine in the future? for instance: HDRI or GI:D or anything. Nowadays I am seeing a lot video trailer about Crysis. It is incredible. However Parva stuffs are incredible too. Is realtime the Future of rendering? :) |
Post by Emmanuel // May 3, 2008, 4:38am
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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However Parva stuffs are incredible too. Is realtime the Future of rendering? :)
Undoubtedly yes.
Now the question is : should 3D artists start to learn the rules of game development to use the power of real-time rendering ; or should the software itself make real-time affordable and natural for pure 3D artists, and not level designers only.
In other words, should the artist workflow match the tool's design, or should the tool fit artist workflow ?
That is the question... |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 3, 2008, 4:58am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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@ Emmanual,
I think the answer is a little bit of both. :D
And yes, I think we will get realtime GI and HDRI, the question is whether Caligari or a User/3rd Party developer will write the shaders. ;)
As to the complexity issue, HLSL is what it is. TrueSpace just provides the bricks as visual wrappers for the language so that you don't have to code the relationships by hand. I'd say that kind of node based approach has already made shader creation more accessible for artists as opposed to programmers. For the artist that doesn't want to learn HLSL then I'd recommend buying shader packs from Parva, Noko, and others who will start providing them as they learn the technology.
I might even whip up a few shader packs myself since I have some ideas as well and it's real easy to do once you know what you're doing. :) |
Post by parva // May 3, 2008, 5:15am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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Jack said it right.
Another thing in addition to D3D shaders is that there is no perfect shader or a shader which would suit all needs.
Realtime is all about effectivity so the node based design is already the best approach I think.
You can disable shader bricks you don't need or wire additional ones to it.
I also agree with Emmanual and I'm sure that in the future we find a way to build up a shader system which is suitable even for artists which will allow quick access but currently I see no way to refuse or ignore the node based shader creation.
For the question if HDRI and GI will come, well I don't know where Caligari has it's priority. Currently these techiques are already possible some works better as others.
HDRI support you have already in trueSpace. Means you can load hdri and exr image files. The problem is tonemapping and eye adaption these are the things that make the visual effects in motion.
For GI I still like the results from Geomerics (http://www.geomerics.com/enlighten-media.htm) |
Post by transient // May 3, 2008, 5:32am
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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One of the problems at the moment is that the goal posts keep moving. We're already up to shader model 4.0 and direct x11 is just around the corner.
As soon as a company makes artist-friendly real-time tools, they're likely to be already obsolete. I really like real-time artwork, but many ducks will have to line up in a row before it's a serious challenger to raytracing as a standard imo. |
Post by jamesmc // May 3, 2008, 6:04am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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There's really no reason an interface cannot be made for constructing shaders. Anything that can be assign a numeric value can be put in an interface. |
Post by parva // May 3, 2008, 6:08am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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agree. If you look back to the DX8 area with the cryptic HLSL
I surely hadn't understand a word but with DX9 it has become easier.
I'm sure the same will be for DX10 and above. It can just become better :D
I also think that Realtime is an addition not a replacement
for the software based Ray and GI Renderer.
Maybe in the future a gpu replaces these, I don't know,
but for now it's great to use the power from one for the benefits of the other. |
Post by TylerZambori // May 3, 2008, 8:19am
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TylerZambori
Total Posts: 100
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If you ask me jack..based on what I have seen in Parav's tutorials..they make it to complicated.. It is like they went out of their way to make it only understandable to uber graphic gods like Parva...
How do I get Parva's tutorials? |
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