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Shadows Of Glass
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Shadows Of Glass // New Users
Post by johnhoward // Jul 5, 2008, 11:28am
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johnhoward
Total Posts: 231
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TS 7.51 & VRAY...
When I have a transparent object - in this case a bottle, it throws a shadow as if it was an absolutely opaque object. If I click "transparent shadows", the shadow of the bottle disappears entirely, leving only the shadows of the cap and label. "Soft shadows" just softens the edge of the shadow.
It seems to me that the bottle ought to throw a colorful shadow looking like light that has been effected by passing through the optics and color of the bottle. In other words, I should see a shadow that is clearly different from the shadows of the cap and label.
If I switch on caustics, it has no effect. Apparently, from what I read in the manual, caustics is only about reflected, not transmitted light.
Is there a way to get what I am after, or is that asking for more than TS and VRAY can deliver at this time?
Thanks for any clues. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 5, 2008, 12:00pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Certain light types don't work with caustics. I forget which ones though. So you may need to use a different light.
It can also help to crank up the caustics factor value to something like 14 to make your caustics more obvious. Transparent shadows is what gives you both transmission and shadow. But there's a bug in it with the current implementation that causes black shadows when a shadow is cast onto the transmissive surface.
BTW, you need to dirty up that pillar some. ;) |
Post by johnhoward // Jul 5, 2008, 1:25pm
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johnhoward
Total Posts: 231
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Thanks again, Jack.
It sounds like I'll have to wait for 7.6 to get what I need.
Dirty up my pillars?? Really! Have you no shame? |
Post by RAYMAN // Jul 5, 2008, 1:33pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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No you dont have to !
It is very easy to use the free renderer Kerkythea with
Truespace and it does caustics with glass very well !
It even does dispersion !
You export using obj format one by one and use merge with the
objects one by one to import them !
Its free and can render very well !
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=3960&highlight=kerkythea
I use Vray very often myself but when it comes to convincing glas
and caustics i always failed !
Peter |
Post by splinters // Jul 5, 2008, 1:44pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Are you absolutely sure you are not on commission from Kerkythea?? |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 5, 2008, 1:47pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I agree with Peter. Kerkythea gives much more convincing glass result than TS VRay. I do like VRay for it's quick and easy GI and HDRI setup so there's definitely reason to have both renderers if you can afford it. But until the glass issues get fixed, you're better off using Kerkythea for that.
LOL Splinters! Yeah, I think they need to get Peter on the payroll. ;) |
Post by RAYMAN // Jul 5, 2008, 2:25pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Are you absolutely sure you are not on commission from Kerkythea??
@ Paul : No dedfinitly not !
But I´m 100 % sure this is the best if you use mlt bpt for it !
I agree with Jack on this too !
I´m just cooking an mlt for this kind of setup.... unbiased renderers
just work much better for physical accurate renders !
note that Kerkythea is not 1 render engine but over 5 !
You use the method that is most suited !
I do the same convincing people of other software including
Truespace if I see that it helps someone for a job !:D
Peter |
Post by johnhoward // Jul 5, 2008, 2:32pm
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johnhoward
Total Posts: 231
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Thanks, Rayman.
I can't figure out how to "export as .obj" . I seem to have the choice of RsObj or Cob.
I have downloaded Kerkythea and am ready to experiment. If I understand your instructions, I must export each object individually? If I encapsulate them in Workspace, does that then become one object? - easily exported and imported into Kerkythea? |
Post by RAYMAN // Jul 5, 2008, 2:43pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Not very good to encapsulate !
You export from the mo0delside using the plugin Luuv that
comes with Truespace and you export one object after the other
into a folder and then import one by one using first with open and then
with merge (only object) one by one !
Not that the objects should import into the same place they were exported from !
Read the getting started tutorial first its in the repository.... you learn
everything you need to know in it !
The render I made for you is a first hand on to show you how caustics work
when you render with the render preset MLT bpt !
Dont foreget to download all the materials including glasses from the repository !
If you need any help I will be glad to help you !
Peter |
Post by nowherebrain // Jul 5, 2008, 3:05pm
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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use spot lights to light the scene, they are the only lamps that support caustics. I'm pretty sure that is even true of max and maya. |
Post by johnhoward // Jul 5, 2008, 3:22pm
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johnhoward
Total Posts: 231
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Rayman
Thank you. The LUUV plugin worked. I was able to create and open an OBJ file in Kerkythea. I have downloaded the Getting Started Tutorial and will go through that before more questions. Your sample picture is exactly the effect I was looking for. This is great. Thanks again.
Nowherebrain,
Thanks. I am using a spotlight for the scene, so after I do some homework on Kerkythea, I should get it right. BTW, while you are here, I should tell you thanks for your modeling tutorials. I have spent many hours with them and learned an enormous amount. They are seriously under-priced. |
Post by nowherebrain // Jul 5, 2008, 5:37pm
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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Not a problem, those who can't do teach right:D, or we try:p |
Post by TomG // Jul 7, 2008, 2:44am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Some notes :)
V-Ray in tS7.51 has a bug with glass shadows, hence the solid shadows. Caustics will indeed work in V-Ray with transmitted as well as reflected light. I think if you use caustics but no GI you should get the desired effect, turning off the dark shadows bug, but not sure.
For exporting, not sure why you can't group and export it should work, exporting them separately shouldn't change how it renders, so group them export should save you doing so many load steps later. But, not sure, as not used the other renderer in question (what goes wrong if you export a grouped object?).
HTH!
Tom |
Post by johnhoward // Jul 7, 2008, 6:43am
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johnhoward
Total Posts: 231
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TomG,
Thanks for the reply. When I encapsulate a few elements from the scene into a single object and attempt to export as OBJ using the LUUV plug-in, a box pops up saying that the object has holes in it and should be triangulated and would I like to do that. Whether I say yes or no, TS gasps, its eyes roll up and it collapses onto the floor and twitches violently before finally crashing to death.
Do you know if the VRAY glass shadow bug has been worked on for the next release? Will TS 7.6 be out this week or early next week? |
Post by RAYMAN // Jul 7, 2008, 7:30am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Johhoward I can only go from my experience and that is select
object by object and just do export all into a folder !
With merge on the other end you should have everything coming
in in place where it was except for the lights and camera and you can
render straight from there !
Its realy simple !
Only complication can be that the normals of an object have to be reversed
but thats simple to correct !
Plus you can switch from hard to soft in the renderer !
Like you would coose hard for a diamond and soft for a heart etc !;)
Peter |
Post by johnhoward // Jul 7, 2008, 7:41am
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johnhoward
Total Posts: 231
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Thanks Rayman,
I am working on Kerkythea. It's just that some scenes are loaded with objects and some of them are encapsulated groups themselves, so it is a major project to export, let alone reassembling on the Kerkythea side.
What is the simple way to reverse the normals? In which program? How do you know when that is necessary?
thanks |
Post by RAYMAN // Jul 7, 2008, 7:52am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Well eporting can take some time because we dont have Jacks exporter yet !
But that will change ....
You can see that normals are reversed when materials dont look right
on an object ! you do that in any renderer you export to !
In Kerkythea its when you right click on the object in the stack on the left side you have a pull down menu that has a setting modeling.....
one is loop subdivision ... one is flip normals and one is vertex welding !
flip normals is the one !
Sometimes if your building a house and render from the inside you have to
flip it because your looking at the backside of your mesh ....
Peter |
Post by RAYMAN // Jul 7, 2008, 8:14am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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It shouldnt take longer then 10 minutes to select one obj after the other and hit the luuv button and hit merge button on the other end for lets say 20 objects !
You dont have to place the object because they come in where they were !
Peter |
Post by Changa // Jul 7, 2008, 10:38am
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Changa
Total Posts: 187
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What is the simple way to reverse the normals? In which program? How do you know when that is necessary?
thanks
I work with Kerky from the model side in this way:
1. select all objects (Ctrl + drag) and glue them in one
2. Triangulate it It resolves holes.
3. export this object as 3DS. It keeps correct colours and bitmaps.
4. open it in Kerky and make corrections to materials (reflection, transmition etc.) or apply from KT lib.
6. Set sun and sky
5. Render
It works well for me with no normals problem.
KT is material oriented (not meshes ), so it is important to have different materials applied before export to KT. For example if you have 2 different materials on one object it will be devided in 2 meshes in KT. If all TS objects have one texture (I did not try this) - most probably it will be only one object/material in KT. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 7, 2008, 11:43am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I agree with Changa and was going to recommend using 3DS format for exporting scenes to Kerkythea as well.
The good news is that with my current project I am learning the APIs needed to transfer data into and out of TS. So depending on how things go I may have a bigger surprise for you guys than a Kerkythea exporter.
The cool thing is that I will be able to re-use a lot of the code directly for implementing the Kerkythea exporter so it should be good news all around. :D
It's still going to take me a while to figure out the UI and materials integration stuff though. :o So my plan currently is to get my current project released, then implement a simple Kerky exporter, then follow that up with the Kerky integration, and somewhere in that mix will be animation support for both projects. |
Post by nowherebrain // Jul 7, 2008, 3:40pm
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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I have successfully used obj, by gluing everything together I believe....this was a long time ago. have not used KT in a while. |
Post by Changa // Jul 8, 2008, 6:39am
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Changa
Total Posts: 187
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If all TS objects have one texture (I did not try this) - most probably it will be only one object/material in KT.
I've experimented and can say that I'm not 100% right. KT keeps objects with the same TS material as separate objects. So you can apply in KT different textures, or change a material for all objects at once. If one TS object has a number of different materials on it, KT imports it like N objects - TSobjectName#Material1.....TSobjectName#MaterialN. They can be grouped in order to keep geometrical integrity. |
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