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Villa
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Villa // Work in Progress
Post by kena // Feb 3, 2008, 4:07pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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I liked the idea of a place to sit, so I re-created a bench that I used to find very comfortable when I was younger. I always liked how the legs curled inward both front and back instead of them both curling forward. The seat was a bit deeper than was normal too.
Darkened the wood paneling inside, but then lightened it a bit more.
10918 |
Post by W!ZARD // Feb 4, 2008, 4:41am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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It's great to see you really puyshing this Kena - you're moving ahead in leaps and bounds.
Firstly thanks for the picture of all your columns - Most impressive variety.
Now, to comment on your Villa pic - I think the bench is a great Idea but I don't like the one you have. The overall 'stone' feel of the architecture calls for a stone bench I think - the wrought iron look of the one you have doesn't fit to well for me.
Secondly, I'd like to see more detailing in the wall and ceiling - even a brand new ceiling has more subtle textural details, varying amounts of shine and so on.
Lastly is the lighting which looks a little flat - partly because of the textures perhaps, particularly on the wall. You clearly have one light casting shadows as the sun would - but a covered area like this, open to the sky, would have a lot of scattered ambient light bounced from the sky and other objects in the environment we can't see directly in the picture.
You could try an IBL (I love IBL's myself) with shadows enabled and that would, when positioned around your scene at a good height (say the same height as the top of your urns), cast faint and fuzzy areas of shadow on the ceiling from your cool columns. Set the IBL to not show in the environment and choose a reference picture of a sunny but cloudy sky - this will generate a natural colour cast to the overall lighting.
Of course if you're current light set-up is just a working arrangement then obviously ignore everything I've said :D You're clearly on the right track without any input from me anyway!!:cool:
WZRD |
Post by Steinie // Feb 4, 2008, 4:49am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Wizard "The overall 'stone' feel of the architecture calls for a stone bench I think - the wrought iron look of the one you have doesn't fit to well for me."
I like the bench he picked because it matches the wrought iron fence in the background. Just another opinion.:) |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Feb 4, 2008, 5:20am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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I agree with Wizard, the additiion of a bench is a nice touch and fits the pic very nicely but I don't like the one chosen. It looks too 'weedy' and doesn't have any grounding shadows so looks like it's floating, it also looks twisted in perspective too, like it's been 'shopped in afterwards. A stone bench would, I think, be adding just too much stone, there's enough already, a chunkier wrought iron and wooden slabbed bench would fit nicley (in my opinion, of course). Look at on-line garden centre catalogues for ideas. It's these decorative touches that takethe eye away from the straight lined-ness of the basic structure and give it interest.
It's great to be seeing this image grow and grow. |
Post by kena // Feb 4, 2008, 6:41am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Image based light? I tried it and it just didn't seem to work for me
10925
Here is an extra spotlight just above the hole in the breezeway.
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Suggestions? I've never used the IBL before. |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Feb 4, 2008, 8:23am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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IBL - quick starting point for half decent lighting (usually) that can then be tweaked/added to - encompass scene in IBL, turn off show environment, set shadows to mapped, change the three settings to high, low, high (can't remember what they're called) and render away. IBL takes longer to render cos it's got a lot more maths to fathom but, as always, the better the scene gets, the longer it takes! (I'm assuming you're using tS 6?)
Hope that helps. |
Post by spacekdet // Feb 4, 2008, 9:09am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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The scale of the bench seems a little too large.
Imagine a tall person standing up from it and his head would be close to the ceiling- breezeway/porches/loggia like this are usually tall and impressive.
"Never used IBL"...!? What are you waiting for?!
PS Fire your tile contractor...he's laid the floor with uneven spacing along the edges. |
Post by kena // Feb 4, 2008, 9:35am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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The scale of the bench seems a little too large.
Imagine a tall person standing up from it and his head would be close to the ceiling- breezeway/porches/loggia like this are usually tall and impressive.
"Never used IBL"...!? What are you waiting for?!
PS Fire your tile contractor...he's laid the floor with uneven spacing along the edges.
Actually, the bench I recall was 1.5 times deeper than a normal one. Why I liked it. You could get a pillow and an afgan and just lean against one of the armrests and read a book all afternoon... Unless mom called me for chores.
IBL takes a lot of memory. I got out of the habit 3 PCs ago of trying to use it.
I've been worrying about those tiles too. I will probably shift the UV to center the diamonds better. |
Post by spacekdet // Feb 4, 2008, 12:20pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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It's not the depth of the bench, it's the overall size in relation to what's around it that strikes me as a little off.
Shadowmapping an IBL is indeed a memory hungry route.
Using raytracing and experimenting with the IBL resolution will curb it's appetite.
It's never going to be fast, but the results are good.
They do tend to give a flat look to the light so I usually pair them with another type of key light; inf, local, area, etc.
Don't forget that the rarely mentioned skylights also make excellent fill lighting. Don't turn on shadowing unless you have patience.
Myself, I'd have a border around the field of tiles. |
Post by kena // Feb 4, 2008, 10:36pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Unfortunately, the problem is that the poor bench looks like it is floating without some sort of shadow, so enabling shadows is a must for me.
here is an IBL that I shrunk down a bit - did not use an image - just used a color. darned thing took about 4.5 hours to render though. It's those darned trees. Without the trees, it only took 2 hours to render.
10932
once I finalize the lighting, I have to go back and fix that diamond floor, then can make the final render. |
Post by Nez // Feb 4, 2008, 11:01pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Still getting better all the time. I was going to suggest colouring your vases to tie in with the colour of the tiles - i.e. a maroon vase or cream with maroon accents - the blue doesn't really co-ordinate with anything...
With the IBL, I've tended to find that a plain colour doesn't work as well as an image - the variation in intensity (and shadowing) that you get from an image stops the light and shade being too uniform in every direction. You can always do test renders without your trees loaded into the scene to speed things up a bit. NB: WWotW - I've never tried them with shadow maps because I always tend to leave raytrace as the default setting for lights - I guess I'll have to look into that... |
Post by kena // Feb 5, 2008, 8:19pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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OK - I traded out the trees for cardboard cutouts for now... Final render we will re-add the trees and let it run for the 6 or 7 hours it needs.
How does it look?
10938
EDIT:
Decided to put some of those pretty blue flowers on the vines
10939 |
Post by kena // Feb 6, 2008, 10:45am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Well.. anyway.
Here is the complete one with the IBL
10950 |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 6, 2008, 10:57am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Very cool, I like the way the vases came out. The columns are quite original and very neat.
Very good scene, lots to look at and appreciate. :banana::banana: |
Post by kena // Feb 7, 2008, 4:25am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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OK - have a very small update here, then I have to work on something that just keeps niggeling me...
10957 |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Feb 7, 2008, 6:00am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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Looking much better. The addition of the blue flowers reduces the stark contrast of the vase decoration and the few scattered leaves and petals is a nice touch. What are the blue things on the grass? I'm assuming they're more petals in which case they look too big and too far away (if it's been that windy where's all the loose leaves from the trees?). Talking of the grass, where the edge meets the stone is too crisp, are you going to put in some small alphamapped planes or fudge it in photoshop? A little bit of debris on the left hand side wouldn't hurt too.
Lastly, that bench. Floating-ness aside I just don't like it! It's obviously just a personal thing but I really don't think it fits.
Apart from these minor nit picks it's really starting to take shape. If you look at the earlier pics and then the where it is now it's great to see how this has evolved and taken shape. We all know how tedious the constant minor tweaks and adjustments are but I hope you stick with it and don't give up on this before it's time. |
Post by Nez // Feb 7, 2008, 7:42am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Two other minor comments - firstly I can't quite work out what is going on with the door at the end - is it a window in the door and if so, what are we seeing through it or reflected in it? I just can't make it out, so it looks a littel strange.
Secondly, there seems to be a bit of a strange patch in the floor tiles in the distance, on the left side - this is possibly just a function of the tile pattern and such like, but it looks a bit messy compared to the right hand side... don't know if you can do anything with it...
I like the addition of the flowers - ties in with the blue on the vases well. |
Post by kena // Feb 7, 2008, 12:05pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Looking much better. The addition of the blue flowers reduces the stark contrast of the vase decoration and the few scattered leaves and petals is a nice touch. What are the blue things on the grass? I'm assuming they're more petals in which case they look too big and too far away (if it's been that windy where's all the loose leaves from the trees?). Talking of the grass, where the edge meets the stone is too crisp, are you going to put in some small alphamapped planes or fudge it in photoshop? A little bit of debris on the left hand side wouldn't hurt too.
Lastly, that bench. Floating-ness aside I just don't like it! It's obviously just a personal thing but I really don't think it fits.
Apart from these minor nit picks it's really starting to take shape. If you look at the earlier pics and then the where it is now it's great to see how this has evolved and taken shape. We all know how tedious the constant minor tweaks and adjustments are but I hope you stick with it and don't give up on this before it's time.
The blue in the grass is actually groups of flowers. Then I decided to put some on the vines. I suppose I could get rid of the ones in the grass though.
For the edge meeting the stone, I figure I will try some alpha mapped planes or something.
But I'm sorry. The bench stays. It was my favorite bench when I was a lad, and now the real one is scrap rust in some landfill somewhere because it just got too old. :D I was actually thinking of adding the companion seat and table over in the grass, but I don't think they would look good there.
Two other minor comments - firstly I can't quite work out what is going on with the door at the end - is it a window in the door and if so, what are we seeing through it or reflected in it? I just can't make it out, so it looks a littel strange.
Secondly, there seems to be a bit of a strange patch in the floor tiles in the distance, on the left side - this is possibly just a function of the tile pattern and such like, but it looks a bit messy compared to the right hand side... don't know if you can do anything with it...
I like the addition of the flowers - ties in with the blue on the vases well.The door at the end is open, and there is a picture hanging on the wall opposite.
Think it would look better if the door was closed?
The strange patch is cause by the floor pattern all those diamonds tend to run together after about 30 feet or so.
Right now, I tweeking the lighting to anchor the tops of the nearest columns to the roof that they support. I'm sure that my next render is going to take longer due to the extra lights. |
Post by kena // Feb 7, 2008, 6:51pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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I think maybe after I get the grass up a bit over the top of the walk, this one may be done. any suggestions?
10967 |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Feb 8, 2008, 4:38am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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any suggestions?
I wont mention the bench! :-) Tweak the position of the back doors cos at first glance it's not really clear what they are (shutters? Strange columns?) I think the tips of the doors being in line with the top thing is what's throwing me. The inside wall and the picture on it add to the confusion as there is no sense of depth.
Did I not mention the bench? :-) |
Post by spacekdet // Feb 8, 2008, 6:46am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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I know what's wrong with the bench.
There's nowhere to put down a drink.
Cushions wouldn't hurt, either. |
Post by Heidi // Feb 8, 2008, 8:06am
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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Um...what happened with the skylights on that last render?
I second the motion for someplace to put a drink! :) |
Post by kena // Feb 8, 2008, 11:52am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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I'll work on a table, but I'm not sure about the cushions..
I don't see anything wrong with the Skylights... can you elaborate Heidi?
for the doors at the other end, I guess I will go with a closed-door policy and you will have to knock when you get there. ;) |
Post by Heidi // Feb 8, 2008, 1:40pm
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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Ooops... my mistake... sorry, a trick of my monitor. I couldn't differentiate the shadows on the skylights and it looked like right side on the bottom of the skylights had collapsed. |
Post by kena // Feb 8, 2008, 5:44pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Ah - that is good news. I thought I was missing something.
I really don't like the doors now. I think I need to make them darker and maybe put in some panels.
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Post by kena // Feb 8, 2008, 10:18pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Well Darned if I didn't re-look at that pic above and notice that you cannot see the handrail anymore... and a lot of other things seem to have merged too.
So I went to a previous version and re-did everything, including the doors to make them darker with some panels as well.
Let me know what you think.
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EDIT:
Subtle changes...
Tweeked the flowers to make them more 3-d
Made the window a bit wider
got rid of that really dark area toward the back left.
Have Insomnia right now, so been working through the night. 2.5 more hours and except for some brief naps trying to sleep, that will be 24 hours.
Guess I will work on that end-table.
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Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Feb 9, 2008, 3:12am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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Doors look MUCH better, well done. Grass edge planes are too tall compared to the rest of the grass though. Might be an idea to shorten them a tad AND put some randomly on the grass itself to give it another dimension. Might be worth trying to lighten up the texture too so that it matches a bit more. Definitely on the right lines though.
One thing that got me though - handrail? Crikey! How tall are the people upstairs compared to the downstairs people that use the door? :) Or is it really more of a fence? |
Post by kena // Feb 9, 2008, 9:33am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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More of a fence.. That has been bothering me too. I'm thinking of shortening it. but I crashed 3 times while trying to make my end-table, so I went and took a longer nap, and now I'm going to get a shower - go out and get lunch/breakfast and then tackle it again. |
Post by kena // Feb 9, 2008, 6:30pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Gee. You add one object....
Then it doesn't look right at that angle.... so you have to change the camera to be higher.
Then the little sliver of a window is not visible through the column. So the column has to be rotated.
But then the vines are in the way.
Reposition the camera. Rotate the column... several times! Finally get that right, and notice...
You can no longer see the sky through the skylight.
Move skylight... Now the patch of sun doesn't hit the vase anymore. Decide that to be minor.
Spend 3.5 hours rendering and once it is done, notice that you forgot to change the railing from a fence to a railing, and now that you repositioned the bench and side-table, that IBL is slightly off.
Anyway, while I'm fixing those here is what I have so far.
10996
Fascinating what niggles you when you see what you have done. It's always those little details that catch the eye. Fixing those little details can be a pain, but there you are. :D |
Post by kena // Feb 10, 2008, 12:24am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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OK - got 7/8 through THAT render and noticed that my handrail was moved to the middle of the air, so had to go do it again.
What do you all think?
10999 |
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