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input devices - mouse | trackball | tablet | puck | etc
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
input devices - mouse | trackball | tablet | puck | etc // New Users
Post by grymmjack // Aug 3, 2008, 6:45am
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grymmjack
Total Posts: 87
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hi guys.
just curious, which input device type do you use?
the reason i ask, i'm a mouser. always have been, and i blame wozniak for that on my Apple][ when i was a kid. it's the only interface i've found myself to be 100% comfortable with.
but now as i'm fossilizing stupid body hurts sometimes, hands, elbow, back, etc. cant wait til we hit the singularity and we can just wetwire ourselves into the matrix and model with our minds and decay into smelly flesh pods forsaking the physical world for the virtual one :P
i've owned tablets, wacom artz (old serial one) 8x12 - was too big, too clunky. i thought more would mean better, not the case in tablet land. wacom intuos2 4x6 - too small, not enough room now my hands are shaking. wacom intuos3 6x8 - about right size, but by now i'm jaded against it and i get too frustrated working with it. now i'm considering buying with this xmas bonus a wacom cintiq (that new affordable sub $1000 jobbie) as you can draw right on the screen and the size is right and the price is atleast somewhat reasonable. but this is a whole new ball of wax, i understand they use dvi throughput passthrough cables and i've got a dual 22" lcd setup here that i'm quite fond of. if i cant share both monitors i'm nervous about that for obvious reason :)
this leads me to trackball. i could never understand this, but had a friend that swore by trackballs. it is significantly less RSI from what i understand as you are only moving your fingertips and thumb and so it might be worth the transition for me. but there is the possibility i could wind up wasting time/money/effort and productivity goes into the toilet.
which tools do you use with 3D? do you ever use something more aligned with 3D like i've seen joysticks and pucks that are designed to navigate 3D space, but never used one myself. i always see them using these exotic input devices on science channel/discovery channel documentaries when they are backstage at CG houses, etc.
so just curious what you use and why and if it would be worth it to get the cintiq or a 3D thing or a puck or whatever. i find the mouse perfectly satisfactory in use with truespace and have no complaints but my elbow and hands hurt quite a bit after an extended session in 3D much more than they do in 2D world. the pushing forward and backward especially i think because i'm so new, i always forget to pickup the mouse and reposition it and then drag up or down, what i find myself doing is pushing and dragging with my whole arm, OUCH.
thanks in advance for your thoughts/suggestions. |
Post by spacekdet // Aug 3, 2008, 7:08am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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For what it's worth...
I've switched to a thumb trackball. While the mouse was more tactile, the RSI was getting to me. I liked the 'feel' of the mouse... click (grab) drag left (object moves left,) etc... very intuitive and it felt like you were actually manipulating the object on screen....but the wrist and shoulder just complained too much.
Now I can move from one side of the screen to the other with less motion than it takes to give 'two thumbs up'. It seems a little less precise sometimes, but it's a fair trade if it helps avoid carpal tunnel syndrome. The slew of extra buttons comes in handy, I map common tS/browser tasks to them.
Some people swear by the 3D puck thing (the name escapes me, but I think W1zard is a big fan, maybe he'll chime in here).
Not sure if it's fully supported in 7.6 yet. |
Post by Steinie // Aug 3, 2008, 9:51am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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This thing?
http://www.3dconnexion.com/
Will get support very soon! |
Post by RichLevy // Aug 3, 2008, 10:15am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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I have been using the Logitec thumb trackball mouse for years, I love it! :) I also use a graphics tablet (wacom Intous 2 6x8). They offer the best of both worlds for me...
One of the things you will find, everyone will have their own preferences to these things, there is no one right answer. When TS7.6 (or 8) finally works correctly with a tablet, I believe that will be most people's choice... till than we have to settle with whatever we can find.
Rich |
Post by splinters // Aug 3, 2008, 10:46am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Some people swear by the 3D puck thing (the name escapes me, but I think W1zard is a big fan, maybe he'll chime in here).
Not sure if it's fully supported in 7.6 yet.
Not sure Wizard uses one but I have been an advocate for quite a while!. Looks great in model side but needs to be moved to workspace.
Just as soon as the SDk is out then......:rolleyes: |
Post by grymmjack // Aug 3, 2008, 10:56am
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grymmjack
Total Posts: 87
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This thing?
http://www.3dconnexion.com/
Will get support very soon!
that's pretty sweet :) $59 is pretty affordable price too. so ts will support 3dconnexion soon? |
Post by grymmjack // Aug 3, 2008, 10:57am
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grymmjack
Total Posts: 87
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For what it's worth...
I've switched to a thumb trackball. While the mouse was more tactile, the RSI was getting to me. I liked the 'feel' of the mouse... click (grab) drag left (object moves left,) etc... very intuitive and it felt like you were actually manipulating the object on screen....but the wrist and shoulder just complained too much.
Now I can move from one side of the screen to the other with less motion than it takes to give 'two thumbs up'. It seems a little less precise sometimes, but it's a fair trade if it helps avoid carpal tunnel syndrome. The slew of extra buttons comes in handy, I map common tS/browser tasks to them.
Some people swear by the 3D puck thing (the name escapes me, but I think W1zard is a big fan, maybe he'll chime in here).
Not sure if it's fully supported in 7.6 yet.
was it a difficult transition for you to make to the trackball? for me i find the cursor is much too sensitive and my thumb is constantly shaking even the tiniest bit moving the cursor by 4-8px at a time. |
Post by spacekdet // Aug 3, 2008, 11:44am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Transition wasn't bad, although I kept trying to drag the whole thing around the desk for a while! Common reaction of people who first use it, I've observed. The kids take to it quicker than adults, the problem is their smaller hands and I've seen them using it two handed sometimes!
I remember thinking at first maybe I should have bought a finger operated trackball but now I don't recall why; perhaps it would feel more tactile, like you were actually grasping the object, but by now I'm accustomed to using the thumb, which frees my fingers to do the normal left/right click thing.
The mouse software should allow you to set sensitivity/precision to your liking.
I know the puck has gotten rave reviews- no offense Splinters (and vice-versa) if I've confused you with W!zard; I knew it was one of the forum regulars that tried it and really liked it. I've considered giving it a spin once it's 100%.
Never had a tablet; always wanted one. |
Post by splinters // Aug 3, 2008, 3:07pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Remember that the truball.tsx works perfectly with model side so if you do buy one you can use it right away. With workspace support, you get the best of both worlds.
A lot of major apps now support it as well as google earth and VE.
It really is a nicely made bit of kit, with it's solid metal base (for weight) and cool blue LEDS glowing from the bottom....:D |
Post by Heidi // Aug 3, 2008, 4:24pm
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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I tried other devices but went back to the mouse. I ended up getting a gaming mouse (Logitec G9) that allows me to change the level of sensitivity as I'm working.
I use an Intuos pad from wacom for 2D stuff and occasionally in the workspace. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Aug 3, 2008, 4:30pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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interesting that the 3Dconnection device is used in combination with the mouse, so that your left hand navigates while the right hand clicks and models with the mouse. That could be a very fast workflow. Stopping work to constantly change views is definitely a slow down. While I hadn't really thought about using the 3dconnection previously, I'm seriously considering it once the new plugin is available.
A tablet is a must. Hopefully TrueSpace will eventually support tablet sensitivity for 3D painting and solve the tablet navigation bug. So I don't use my tablet for TS currently but it is invaluable for texture painting and photo retouching. I use a Wacom Intuos 3 4x6 now and I actually like the smaller size better than the 9" Aiptech that I had previously. |
Post by jamesmc // Aug 3, 2008, 4:43pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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What the heck is wrong with a mouse?
I mean you drag that hunk of plastic across the mouse pad like a block of cheese on a cheese grater and ouila! instant graphics! :D |
Post by grymmjack // Aug 3, 2008, 5:13pm
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grymmjack
Total Posts: 87
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Remember that the truball.tsx works perfectly with model side so if you do buy one you can use it right away. With workspace support, you get the best of both worlds.
A lot of major apps now support it as well as google earth and VE.
It really is a nicely made bit of kit, with it's solid metal base (for weight) and cool blue LEDS glowing from the bottom....:D
what is truball splinters? is it the device by 3dconnexion? Space explorer? |
Post by splinters // Aug 4, 2008, 12:54am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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truball.tsx is a truespace plug in that communicates with the Space Navigator. In other words, when it is loaded into tS, it allows you to use the space navigator in model side of tS. I loaded a video somewhere in the forums (search for space navigator). The combination of two hands really does improve workflow and this is one device I have been using for a while but yearning workspace side support. |
Post by grymmjack // Aug 4, 2008, 2:47am
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grymmjack
Total Posts: 87
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truball.tsx is a truespace plug in that communicates with the Space Navigator. In other words, when it is loaded into tS, it allows you to use the space navigator in model side of tS. I loaded a video somewhere in the forums (search for space navigator). The combination of two hands really does improve workflow and this is one device I have been using for a while but yearning workspace side support.
ahh. ok thanks for the explanation. i understand. hopefully workspace support comes :) |
Post by TomG // Aug 4, 2008, 4:59am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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I use a tablet for everything but tS - sadly tablet support there could use a bit of an improvement, but having said that I do understand that it is better to spend development time on things that affect everyone, rather than working on something that would only affect a few users. I find a tablet awesome, much easier on the hand than a mouse, and just all round more pleasant to use.
The 3D Connexion I use for Virtual Earth navigation, will be nice to try it out when it works in workspace. Not trying it with the truball.tsx since I never use the Model side any more so it would be a bit pointless :)
The mouse I revert to for tS and for games.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by 0oseven // Aug 7, 2008, 2:11am
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0oseven
Total Posts: 3
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Switched to Logitech Trckball about 9 months ago. very Uncomfortavle at first but after about a week continual use Its my preferred device for getting around the screen. |
Post by frootee // Aug 8, 2008, 4:23am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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I use a trackball too. Great for zipping around in shared space! |
Post by hultek43 // Aug 8, 2008, 7:36am
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hultek43
Total Posts: 234
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I got one of these, 5 buttons makes it quite handy.> http://www.microsoft.com/products/info/CatImg/ProdImg/1/10/TO_l.jpg
Also a Wacom ArtPad II |
Post by grymmjack // Aug 9, 2008, 4:19pm
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grymmjack
Total Posts: 87
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just got a wacom bamboo. we'll see how i do with the new cheap model :P |
Post by TomG // Aug 11, 2008, 4:32am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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It should be great, I've been using their previous cheap model, the Graphire 4(which now seems to be the wireless only - the one I have was in the same price range as the Bamboo is now), and while the smallest and cheapest they had at the time, it is still fantastic.
The Bamboo has all sorts of changes to it so I imagine it should be even better :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by grymmjack // Aug 11, 2008, 3:11pm
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grymmjack
Total Posts: 87
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actually no kidding, the bamboo is as good for responsiveness and pressure as my old intuos2 was. i'm quite happy with this one. it's quite affordable because it doesn't bundle any software i suppose, but i'm set there anyway.
really cool.
this topic in mind, does ts support tablet pressure in any way? it would be really cool to use it in soft point edit select mode. |
Post by RichLevy // Aug 11, 2008, 3:46pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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this topic in mind, does ts support tablet pressure in any way? it would be really cool to use it in soft point edit select mode.
Unfortunately no.
I hear the Bamboo is about the same specs as the intous2, at about half the price... or something like that.
Good purchase.
Rich |
Post by TomG // Aug 12, 2008, 2:53am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Actually workspace side doesn't work too well with tablets overall, the widgets etc respond oddly, and going just off the edge of the tablet will cause craziness. tS is the only app I go back to a mouse for at present :)
And no pressure sensitivity either of course, given that tablet support isn't implemented workspace side.
HTH!
Tom |
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