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Question regarding the "Music machine Course"
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Question regarding the "Music machine Course" // New Users
Post by J90 // Aug 13, 2008, 1:58pm
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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I have been trying to complete this course but I can't get past the part where you have to get the ball through the catcher to record the physics to an aniamtion path.
The problem I am having is the geosphere gets stuck and won't go down smoothly.:(
Is there anything I am missing so I can fix it? |
Post by kena // Aug 13, 2008, 6:15pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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you could try viewing form the top and moving your geosphere a little bit to change where it drops down from. It could be getting "caught" on the edge of the funnel.
You could also try shrinking the geosphere.
This is one of the few courses I didn't get to yet. |
Post by J90 // Aug 13, 2008, 6:36pm
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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Kena, thanks for the suggestion but I already tried that too.
I tried dropping a different geosphere straight down the catcher it didn't change anything.
It is a really fun course. well until the ball gets stuck. |
Post by Heidi // Aug 13, 2008, 9:19pm
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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Um... I haven't tried that course. But try turning the bridge off and see whether the ball still acts like it's stuck. The physics animation may be hanging up on the bridge syncronization....just a thought. |
Post by J90 // Aug 14, 2008, 7:59am
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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Um... I haven't tried that course. But try turning the bridge off and see whether the ball still acts like it's stuck. The physics animation may be hanging up on the bridge syncronization....just a thought.
I turned off the bridge. It won't let me see or edit anything on the model side if bridge is turned off after loading the scene.
After loading with the bridge on and then turning it off I can no longer edit the ball or show the simulation.
I thought maybe if i delete the fourth bar it won't get stuck. I tried deleting the faces after selecting them with the "delete face" button but it doesn't work.
I never thought it would be so hard to delete geometry. In other programs you just hit the "delete" key.
I attached the scene file so anybody that feels like seeing if it will work for them. The ball doesn't go in perfectly but it should still go down:confused:
If anybody does get it working could you please attach it so I can see if it works on my end.
Thanks |
Post by TomG // Aug 14, 2008, 8:25am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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You should turn the bridge off before loading the scene. The scene is an old tS6.6 one, so by turning the bridge off then going to Model side and loading it, you avoid sending anything to the workspace side (which doesn't need it for this course, as it is all model side based being for tS6.6).
That way you avoid the workspace side "accidentally" changing anything or interfering with the old physics.
Turning the bridge off after loading may be "too late" in that conversion will have already happened to move the data from Model side to workspace side.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by J90 // Aug 14, 2008, 8:30am
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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Tom,
The scene I am referring to is the one I made in the current 7.6 version
by following the course video's
Loading the scene after the bridge is turned off makes it so there is nothing in the model side. It must all reside in the workspace side?
Physics can only be simulated when the bridge is on.:( |
Post by Heidi // Aug 14, 2008, 9:37am
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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In the upper right of the screen click on TS Files and from the drop down menu Save as Scene. That will save your scene into the model-side format (TS 6.6). You can then turn off the bridge and use the TS Files drop-down menu again to load that scn file.
The only thing I changed from your view was to move the lights from layer 7 (where the cube and the geosphere are) back to the basic layer.
When I run the simulation the ball doesn't bounce high enough to make it to the catcher. I didn't try adjusting the physical properties of your geosphere. I was referencing video 10 in the course.
I'm attaching the scn file that I used (the lights are in the base layer). Load this scn file using the TS Files drop-down.
If the ball is still getting stuck with the bridge off or if you're still having a problem with the scene with the bridge off, post back. |
Post by TomG // Aug 14, 2008, 9:46am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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The music machine course however is meant for tS6.6, using the Model side to build and animate. Rebuilding it in workspace may require differences from what is shown in the course.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Heidi // Aug 14, 2008, 10:00am
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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He built it on the model side, otherwise he wouldn't have the layers. So I looked at it from the model side. :) |
Post by J90 // Aug 14, 2008, 10:27am
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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it wasn't bouncing high enough? hmm
I will try it and let you know how it works.
Thanks again
Edit: After bridge being turned off and loading the scene that you uploaded I can't run the simulation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After turning bridge back on:
I lined up a different ball and lined it up perfectly and it actually goes down to the curved part with no problems. then it stops. :(
Ok well even if it can get all the way through... well it can't because it bounces. :(
here is the 6.6 scene with a different ball with the same properties.
turning the friction and coarseness from 0 to 100 makes the ball get a little further down the curved part as long as the ball can't
bounce.
Edit: Nevermind it is the coarseness that allows it to go slightly further not the friction being at 100. |
Post by Heidi // Aug 14, 2008, 10:37am
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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That's weird. I went to model side, then turned off bridge, then loaded the scn file. I just tried it again and it's running here. I have layer 7 as the active layer and the geosphere selected as the active object.
Edit: I'm attaching a screen capture of the simulation as it runs on my machine. |
Post by J90 // Aug 14, 2008, 11:08am
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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That's weird. I went to model side, then turned off bridge, then loaded the scn file. I just tried it again and it's running here. I have layer 7 as the active layer and the geosphere selected as the active object.
Edit: I'm attaching a screen capture of the simulation as it runs on my machine.
That makes no sense why there is a large difference like that. |
Post by Heidi // Aug 14, 2008, 12:18pm
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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Hmmm.... well, your original .rscn file gets imported into the workspace library. Which means that any of the physics, etc are translated into the workspace before I can save it back out. That may be what's causing the difference in the bounce.
I'm assuming that you're trying to do all this on the mode side. As Tom stated, the translation to the workspace format could be what's causing the problem.
I'm stubborn....let's try one more thing. Save your original music_3.RsScn file that was originally giving you the problem using the TS Files, save as scene (that will create music_3.scn) and post that. Then I can try loading it directly into the model side without going through the workspace conversion required by the rscn file type.
Edit: Well... I tried running the animation from the workspace. In there the geosphere does bounce high enough, does a clean entry into the receiving cup but then bounces back out... this is your original zipped scene and all I did was to turn on all but the base layer. So my question is, are you trying to run this in the workspace or on the modeling side? The physics engines for the two sides are different.
Here's a screen grab of the animation in the workspace. |
Post by J90 // Aug 14, 2008, 2:23pm
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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Everything has been done on the model side
attached is the .scn
It seems that the simulation is somewhat random:confused:
Sometimes it will bounce to the left or right,and somtimes bounce in and then a little inside the catcher, or even bounce in and then out completely like what it did for you.
Edit: Is the start stop simulation button on the bottom only for the workspace?
And the one on the top for the model side? |
Post by Heidi // Aug 14, 2008, 3:01pm
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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I'm getting the 'not bouncing high enough' thing again. I'm at a loss for the difference in the bounce.
I'll be able to work with it some more a little later this evening and try to see what's going on. |
Post by J90 // Aug 14, 2008, 3:32pm
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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Ok, thanks again heidi.
Is the start stop simulation button on the bottom only for the workspace?
And the one on the top for the model side? |
Post by Heidi // Aug 14, 2008, 5:33pm
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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Yep... that's correct.
I understand the difference in the bounce performance between the workspace and the modeller because they're two different engines. What I don't understand is the difference in performance that you're seeing versus what I'm seeing.
In the workspace, where the ball bounces correctly for me, it drops cleanly through the receiving cup if I remove the guides under the cup. I haven't figured out why it's hanging up with the return rails in place. |
Post by J90 // Aug 14, 2008, 6:01pm
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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Is there any possible way you could try removing the fourth rail closest to the middle to see if it will not hang?
and please attach the scene
I can't delete the geometry for some reason. |
Post by Heidi // Aug 14, 2008, 6:49pm
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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I can't delete the geometry for some reason.
Well THAT I can help you with. :)
The rail is part of a radial array. First you need to select the layer that contains the object then you need to convert the array to an object group. Then you can delete and/or edit the individual objects.
BTW, to me it looks like it's the rail that's opposite that one that it's hanging up on. |
Post by J90 // Aug 14, 2008, 6:52pm
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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Well THAT I can help you with. :)
The rail is part of a radial array. First you need to select the layer that contains the object then you need to convert the array to an object group. Then you can delete and/or edit the individual objects.
BTW, to me it looks like it's the rail that's opposite that one that it's hanging up on.
Thanks again :)
Edit again?: I forgot to mention that I the other ball that just drops straight down to go all the way down to the end but then a little bit before it reaches the end it stops and then reverses the direction going very slowly.
Here is a screen capture video. |
Post by Heidi // Aug 14, 2008, 8:35pm
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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hmm... well the bouncing ball towards the end of the video is the same thing I'm seeing with the bouncing ball. Giving it the attribute of rubber and zero friction helps. When I load your scene, the sphere doesn't have the properties of rubber. The zero friction should also help with the ball that's being dropped straight down.
In addition to that... I found something else...
Looking at the course video orthogonal view, your receiving cup things are a lot taller than those in the course. I loaded the finished course scene and extracted one of the receiver things (see attached).
You should be able to just load the .cob object into your scene. I colored it orange so you can see how it compares to the height of yours. |
Post by J90 // Aug 15, 2008, 7:53am
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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hmm... well the bouncing ball towards the end of the video is the same thing I'm seeing with the bouncing ball. Giving it the attribute of rubber and zero friction helps. When I load your scene, the sphere doesn't have the properties of rubber. The zero friction should also help with the ball that's being dropped straight down.
In addition to that... I found something else...
Looking at the course video orthogonal view, your receiving cup things are a lot taller than those in the course. I loaded the finished course scene and extracted one of the receiver things (see attached).
You should be able to just load the .cob object into your scene. I colored it orange so you can see how it compares to the height of yours.
Attached is a video showing what happens when I use the proper sized one.
it does move quite a bit faster now. |
Post by Heidi // Aug 15, 2008, 9:39am
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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The bouncing ball does that on all the scenes I've downloaded. On the modeler side it doesn't make it into the receiver cup. Is that what you're referring to?
Your video shows that the dropped ball goes all the way down the track on that without hanging up. The bounced ball may just be a matter of adjusting the physical properties. |
Post by J90 // Aug 15, 2008, 3:20pm
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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It could be the physic attributes. I tried adjusting them but it didn't fix it. |
Post by Heidi // Aug 15, 2008, 4:15pm
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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I got it adjusted at one point so that it would go down through the cup, but it stopped before it got all the way to the end of the guide at the center of the machine....not quite enough energy.
....sooo close. |
Post by kena // Aug 15, 2008, 9:53pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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try changing the weight.... sometimes you have to make it heavier, sometimes lighter. |
Post by J90 // Aug 16, 2008, 12:10pm
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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So far I have tried changing every physic attribute and every collision settings. Still can't figure out how to stop the ball from reversing direction.
I decided to see what happened if I take the actual scene from resources and see if a ball will go all the way through.
It went all the way through. quite slow though.
Not quite sure why mine won't though.
Attached is a video showing the results. |
Post by Heidi // Aug 17, 2008, 7:15am
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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Well I've made some progress :)
I found out why your ball is stopping at the end.... in the scene editor, try deleting the shell volume for your central cylinder and the ball should roll through. The ball is seeing the shell volume as a solid object. I checked the course's final scene and I didn't see any shell volume in the scene editor.
I also got the ball to bounce into the cup... it's not a clean entry, so be patient with it, but it should give you a place to start further tweaking. :)
The test scene with the ball settings that I used is attached. I increased the ball's mass to 400 and then tweaked the other settings until it would go into the cup. It then rolls all the way through into the central cylinder. |
Post by J90 // Aug 17, 2008, 8:30am
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J90
Total Posts: 107
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Well I've made some progress :)
I found out why your ball is stopping at the end.... in the scene editor, try deleting the shell volume for your central cylinder and the ball should roll through. The ball is seeing the shell volume as a solid object. I checked the course's final scene and I didn't see any shell volume in the scene editor.
I also got the ball to bounce into the cup... it's not a clean entry, so be patient with it, but it should give you a place to start further tweaking. :)
The test scene with the ball settings that I used is attached. I increased the ball's mass to 400 and then tweaked the other settings until it would go into the cup. It then rolls all the way through into the central cylinder.
Thanks for helping as much as you did. |
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