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MMC - Hey this thing CAN fly...
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
MMC - Hey this thing CAN fly... // Work in Progress
Post by Nez // Feb 6, 2008, 4:06am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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I decided to go for something more straight-forward than Steine and James - an aircraft that looks like it probably shouldn't be able to fly...
At the end of today's lunchbreak, here's how she's looking so far, pre and post SDS - some of the parts are just roughed out shapes as guides which I'll remodel to get some smoother edges later. Doesn't have a name yet, just 'Ugly'. Maybe I should go with 'Ugly Betty'....
Still plenty of parts to go, not to mention a setting.... I know there's some good aircraft threads on the forum already which I should go and find for reference but I can't remember who by so expect they may take a while to find... |
Post by Nez // Feb 12, 2008, 4:30am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Decided she wasn't really ugly enough! So she's now got mismatched wings...
Have started adding some more detail - canopies, pylons and equipment, some of the little antennae and such like... could still do with some more odds and ends.
Have (separately) started on some undercarriage, need to pull them in to the main model and sort scale and position etc and get on to some textures... expetc I'm going to need to hand-paint the textures for this to get it to look how I want, with some degree of UV mapping (which I've never tried before and don't have any extra software to help...) - aiming to apply a reference grid texture, align it sensibly on the model and then paint a texture based on how it projects onto the model/part... |
Post by 3dfrog // Feb 12, 2008, 5:15am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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hehehe, thats one crazy flying machine. I love it. I have a love of the absurd. I can't wait to see it textured and rendered all pretty. |
Post by Nez // Feb 18, 2008, 12:29am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Thanks 'frog! Ironically, it hasn't turned out half as weird/ugly as I'd originally had in mind - I think the problem is I'm too familiar with modern jets and subconscioulsy strove to make it moderately sensible...!
So it's become more of a concept jet, configured as an in-service air-to-air interceptor, albeit with a somewhat unusual configuration - kind of a cross (visually) between the A10, F-18 and X-29...
Anyway, the major part of the modelling is basically done, although I'll probably try to keep adding little details here and there (blisters, antennae etc) and minor tweaks until I run out of time.
Unusually for me, I've basically done all the modelling before moving onto texturing - I usually texture as I go but most people round here say that's not really the best way to do it so I've tried to doing it this way round for a change (well, aside from using one slightly different shader for the canopy glass).
So here she stands, waiting to be painted up in the paint shop, with just some basic lighting. |
Post by Nez // Feb 18, 2008, 12:36am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Following the above shot, I decided a few tweaks were required - the canards ('fore-wings') needed reconstructing so they didn't look like they'd been cut from a sheet of plywood and the rear engine pods needed a bit more support...
I've also made a start on painting her up; I've done another first and tried using UV mapping of a sort (no real native tools in TS 5) - I applied a reference grid image to parts of the model and then used that as a guide for my created textures.
The example shown below is the texture applied to one of the 'sidepods' - constructed using several layers in Paintshop Pro. Aiming for some subtle variation in colour, with the overall look in keeping with modern interceptors that use what's referred to as 'low contrast' colour schemes.
Quite pleased with how she's shaping up - still lots of painting to do plus scene composition and lighting, though I have a basic idea for that in mind. Don't know whether you'll get to see anything more before the deadline later this week... |
Post by Michael Billard // Feb 18, 2008, 8:00am
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Michael Billard
Total Posts: 125
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Looks good! Say, that numbered grid-like texture is pretty handy, did you make that? |
Post by Nez // Feb 18, 2008, 11:07pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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No, I confess I didn't - it came with my version of Truespace, tucked away in the textures folders on the CD I think.
Have attached it below for you.
I've seen other people on the forum using similar textures of their own making for similar purposes, although I can't remember who... This is a new method or me mind, so I'll have to see how successful it turns out to be - the wings are a particular problem, think some careful shadows may be required! |
Post by kena // Feb 19, 2008, 5:52am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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These tutorials may help
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=24960&postcount=1 |
Post by Nez // Feb 19, 2008, 6:03am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Thanks for the link, but there is no built in UV editor in TS5.1 (that I'm aware of). I could really do with upgrading to 6.6... would help on lighting too... |
Post by Nez // Feb 21, 2008, 1:55am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Well, this is pretty much what I would have been submitting for the end of this week on the basis of the original deadline.
As I've now got some extra time to play I can add some more detailing/'props' (navigation lights, possibly a crew ladder, misslile trolleys or the like). Anyone have any suggestions/request? (no promises! ;))
Also crits and comments welcome - any suggestions on how to improve what I've got so far? I'm quite pleased with how the lighting and textures have turned out at this stage, but there's always room for improvement.
Cheers |
Post by rjeff // Feb 21, 2008, 5:02am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Oh I know..add that monster mouth like the A-10 has on the front of yours..would look very cool..and maybe some stripes on the end of the missle tips...or some writing to the rockets |
Post by TomG // Feb 21, 2008, 6:15am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Nice lighting indeed, gives a real sense of mass and solidity to the aircraft - which also manages to look vaguely reasonable and yet unreasonable at the same time as a design, so nice job there too :)
While I like it already, I look forward to seeing any other changes you make to it.
Tom |
Post by Nez // Feb 21, 2008, 7:10am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Thanks guys! :D
rjeff - I was thinking about the mouth I confess - although that's more common on ground attack jets like the A-10 and I have set her up as an air-to-air interceptor with Sidewinders and Sparrows... Mind you, I've already got a toothy grin on my shark, maybe I can use a render of that as my texture?! :D with regards the missiles - well they already have a few colour stripes/different colopur tips - they're based on fairly 'proper' colouring so I probably won't change those but figured I should add the warning triangles to the weapons pylons, plus the payload release clamps... at the moment, it has no real way to hold on or let go of those suckers...
Tom - cheers for your comments, I guess I managed to get that strageness going ok in the end then! I'm pretty pleased with the lighting - I'd say I've managed to make quite a big step forward in lighting over the last few months largely thanks to IBLs... hopefully I can continue to improve in this area - I'd like to get my hands on TS6.6 so I can try out the GI features which I can't currently do... |
Post by W!ZARD // Feb 25, 2008, 4:58am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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:DHey nice work Nez! You did a good job with the lighting, the textures. the composition and the originality - well done! (Although if you are after a career in aeronautical design and engineering I wouldn't give up your day job just yet! :D |
Post by Nez // Feb 25, 2008, 6:25am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Cheers W!zard!
I grew up with model planes and my dad worked in the avionics business, so I know a fair bit about planes - but yes, it is supposed to look rather unlikely to get off the ground... perhaps it's because I design buildings for a living (structural engineer) - they are most decidely supposed to stay on the ground ;) |
Post by Nez // Mar 5, 2008, 4:23am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Just to show that work on this hasn't ceased, here's a glimpse of some of what I've been working on since the last post. Primarily been focusing on 'background' detail to make the setting better - this little cluster is from the back corener of the shot, so won't be seen this close in the final view. Have also worked up some hangar doors, some wheel chocks and a few other minor bits. Should probably add some kind of floor drain(s) seeing as there's no roof...
Might then get back to considering any final tweaks to the jet itself, depending on how the poly count is looking...
Still open to suggestions... |
Post by Steinie // Mar 5, 2008, 5:00am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Nez, yes I can see this as part of the background. I was going to suggest a fire extinguisher but you have a Monotone Achromatic look and the bright red would stand out.
I notice something going on under the stairway, but cannot make it out.
Overall this is going to be an awesome scene. I can't wait to see it finished. |
Post by Georg // Mar 5, 2008, 5:44am
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Georg
Total Posts: 270
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Hi Nez, It has become a very nice picture with a somewhat scary lightning, lots of details on the textures but nothing too much or asking too much attention, very well done.
As for suggestions: I would change the heavy beams of the roof structure and change them for lighter forms as you use in this nice staircase picture. Beams with the shape of a "capital i" (no idea how to call them in English, but certainly you of all people will know).
As for the staircase, the left part seems to float from the ground plane, could be a shadow/light thing. Very realistic corner and will add well to your plane scene!
Georg |
Post by Nez // Mar 5, 2008, 6:07am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Thanks for the comments guys!
Steinie - I was wondering about a fire extinguisher, but as you note was a bit concerned about a strong flash of colour standing out too much - plus the scale. Most of my 'extra detail' is in the background, so appears very small (especially at 800x600). Might still stick one in - but perhaps a low key black one?
Under the stair is suposed to be kind of murky, but at the moment there's a couple of gas cylinders and a generator (or some other sort of large vented box!). Even the orange of the cylinders is possibly a bit strong - as is the (dirty) yellow I used on my wheel chocks - I'll have to review in context of the whole scene in due course and decide whether to tone them down more.
Georg - cheers for the thoughts. I spotted the 'floating stair' thing after the render and have added some base-plates where it sits on the ground (similar to those on the columns) to help ground the stairs. Hopefully that will help (haven't done another test render yet). As these will be seen from a different angle anyway, I need to see if the issue remains when seen from the correct angle.
I do know what you mean about the roof (we call them 'Universal Beams' or I-beams if we're lazy!) - I had thought about doing a lighter or more elaborate roof, possibly with some sort of glazing or skylights or something but was originally going for a very 'solid' and substantial concrete look, like a bunker perhaps. I should maybe still try it out to see how it looks, but I do kind of like the almost oppressive heaviness of the roof structure. I also didn't want something too fancy that might distract from the plane, so went for something very simple geometrically... Doesn't mean I'm right though....
Maybe I should knock up a moderately relaistic steel roof and see how it looks...
Thanks guys. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 5, 2008, 8:28am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Wow, Nez! You're really stepping it up a notch with the latest updates. :banana: |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 5, 2008, 9:25pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Verrry cool Nez - you are certainly getting the hang of it. This is coming along nicely - the detail and level of quality is excellent. Are you still using tS 5.2? (Pauses for a brief fond reminiscence). You might consider entering the final product in the monthly Caligari gallery - you could win yourself an upgrade!! |
Post by Nez // Mar 5, 2008, 10:52pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Jack, W!zard - thanks for the very kind comments. I am very pleased with the way this is turning out so far - I feel it's probably my best texturing job to date, and possibly the best lighting I've done so far too, except perhaps my cathedral pic... I probably will submit it the monthly gallery but there's usually so much good stuff in there I won't get my hopes up!
W!zard - I'm still on TS5.1 (plus service patch - think it makes it officially TS5.1 SP2 SSE). If I managed to win an upgrade, I think I'd choose to go for TS6.6 if I was allowed to choose. 7.5 looks amazing in many ways but my hardware is very lacking and I'd be pretty happy with the extra GI type additions in 6.6 without having to face the learning curve that everyone is still up against with 7.5.... I don't doubt its potential but I'd certainly get results quicker from 6.6!
Thanks for the feedback :D |
Post by Nez // Mar 6, 2008, 5:18am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Well, I've had a go at some steel beams for the roof structure as an alternate - tell me which you like best...
This shows some of the other additions from the right angle. Must be in Liverpool - someone's nicked me plane...! :D (actually just left it out for a better loko and to cut render time).
Can see that adaptive antialias isn't really up to the job for this scene, going tohave to use higher AA settings which is going to hurt my render times even more...:( already slow enough with shadow-mapped IBL... Not sure if I'll be adding much more background detail, need a few minor additions to the plane still and then will probably call it a day... |
Post by Georg // Mar 6, 2008, 6:05am
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Georg
Total Posts: 270
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Very nice, Nez, I like those lamps on the beams and the staircase makes it all very realistic, also because of your lighting. When your plane is back from its test flight send the whole picture to the gallery!
Georg |
Post by spacekdet // Mar 6, 2008, 8:29am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Can see that adaptive antialias isn't really up to the job for this scene, going tohave to use higher AA settings which is going to hurt my render times even more...
To avoid the hit to render times that anti-aliasing gives, just render the image out to twice (or 3x, or 4x, etc) it's normal size.
When you resize it in your 2D program of choice, it'll do the AA for you in a fraction of the time that it would normally take. |
Post by Nez // Mar 20, 2008, 12:51am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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spacekdet - thanks for the suggestion, I did try that for the renders below. I can't say how long it saved as I didn't do a comparison render with the AA turned up, but certainly PSP downsampled the images pretty fast.
I've got as far as I've got time to take it now - results below. I decided to try a night shot as well as the day shot, so you can choose your favourite. I made on eminor post-process tweak to the night shop to brighten the lights and add some very subtle glow (did a plain render of the lights only with high luminance level on a black background, added some blur in PSP and layered back over the original image in Lighten blend mode). Other than that, they are both as straight from TS. Still not 100% happy with the shadows and one or two other things, but fairly happy overall.
Thanks for all the comments along the way. |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 20, 2008, 3:12am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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That's one beautifully ugly aeroplane Nez. Great job, nicely executed technically, artistically inspired and good fun too. I like it! |
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