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New 7.6 Coming Soon?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
New 7.6 Coming Soon? // Work in Progress
Post by Tiles // Apr 2, 2008, 7:54am
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Tiles
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Have not missed that. But implemented features should nevertheless work. Even in the intermediate solutions :) |
Post by Steinie // Apr 2, 2008, 9:46am
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Steinie
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought 7.6 was going to get rid of the Bridge and all the tools would be moved. Other post I read says 8.0 will be the version that happens plus 64 bit support.
Do you all remember past post that stated what "could" happen? (since nothing is set in stone) |
Post by splinters // Apr 2, 2008, 9:47am
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Bit of a tangent, but I wonder just how many reported bugs are simply incompatibility with drivers, hardware or other software?
I use tS7.51 on a Vista machine and an XP machine. Before I used on two XP machines but even then the results were always different.
Now I get lots of crashes with Vista while the same scene is rock solid in XP.
You shouldn't have to change OS to get tS to work but I wonder if it can all be blamed on the software. I am aware of certain bugs but I did not think there where that many.
I am on the fence here, I have my own gripes but tS does remain a great piece if software even if much if it is in unrealised potential. |
Post by splinters // Apr 2, 2008, 9:54am
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splinters
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought 7.6 was going to get rid of the Bridge and all the tools would be moved. Other post I read says 8.0 will be the version that happens plus 64 bit support.
Do you all remember past post that stated what "could" happen? (since nothing is set in stone)
For the bridge to go, LW needs to be integrated into workspace or Vray would have to be included. Otherwise you are forced to buy Vray or have no render engine....unless you relied on realtime/DX.......conspiracy theorists feel free to chip in now...:rolleyes:
Too many features needed to make workspace a true standalone program, incomplete toolset, no plug-in support etc.
Unless of course tS7.6 becomes a new program and not an upgrade from tS7.5. Somehow I doubt that will happen...but I know nothing for sure. |
Post by mykyl1966 // Apr 2, 2008, 10:32am
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TS 7.6 I hope is an absolutely must have upgrade... especially if its a pay for upgrade, but even more so as it will have to convince me to reboot to Windows to use it.
I guess I could sort out my room and setup the old pc for it but I really like my mac monitor.
Either way I am looking forward to solid information and hope to continue to use TS.
Cheers
Mike R |
Post by jamesmc // Apr 2, 2008, 10:51am
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At the rate they are progressing, when version 8 comes out, I'll be eligible to draw Social Security retirement and benefits.
Hope these folks aren't being paid by the hour. |
Post by CdeB // Apr 2, 2008, 11:44am
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Without being able to produce a specific thread..my consistent impression is that the bridge will not go before 8 (at the earliest!). Unless there is some recent Caligari revealed info I missed, I certainly would not expect workspace alone with the 7.6 release. In fact I would eat my (straw) hat if this were the case.. yum yum! |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 3, 2008, 4:12am
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W!ZARD
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Tiles - Thanks for taking the time to write a reasoned reply - it's most appreciated. I like to know how other folk think because there is always the potential for me to learn something from it.Have a look in the bugs section. LOL - Tiles I've used tS consistently for 6 or 7 years now, produced award winning images and animations with it and more than once I've lost my temper over my (usually temporary) inability to get it to do what I want. I've been active on these forums for most of that time. One thing I have never done, ever, is look in the bugs section - not even once. I don't intend to start looking there now either!
The reason why - on the off chance anyone is interested - is that I'm an artist and not a computer programmer - I would never know if something was a bug or simply my ignorance of how it goes. Any serious bugs invariably get discussed in the roundtable forum and once or twice someone has posted a reply to one of my queries informing me of a known bug.
But if I can't get to the top of the mountain by one route I seek (and usually find) another route.
These days I have a reasonably competent computer - but before that I constantly experienced crash after crash (with tS6.6) because my pc lacked sufficient memory. If you know my work you know I tend toward lots of detail and high poly counts - I learned to work around the limitations of my pc by doing many renders in two or three pieces and compositing them together. I had a mountain to climb and the way there for me was to improvise and find a route that did work, rather than needlessly complain that the mountain was insufficiently signposted for me.
Putting it another way, I'm really only interested in what something or someone does. What something or someone doesn't do has no practical application that I can see. Yes trueSpace has areas that require development - doesn't everyone and everything? I can see nothing to be gained from constantly rehashing something everyone is aware of in negative and emotive terms. It's got to be bad for your blood pressure!
There you can watch when i have touched the workspace, which nearly always ended in a screenshot. And there you can watch the bugs that have stopped me using it. The ones i reported are around 60 before i finally gave up. Good for you! I hope you take some pride and pleasure from that fact that your assiduous reporting of aberrant behavior has no doubt contributed to Caligari's efforts to develop and improve a software package that is well known to be in a transition phase.
the bones system for example the bug that made it impossible to setup a default pose. Which makes the bones system at least for me useless. No default pose means no rig.
Staying at the bones system here: it was not my lack of knowledge that stopped me here, it was this bug. But let's use the same argument here: maybe you don't try to use trueSpace and its features deep enough to stumble across the bugs and quirks. The buttons are not only there to look at them ;) Interesting - I've used the bones quite extensively and haven't even realised a bug existed. Now you mention it I've noticed the Set Default Pose occasionally exhibits unexpected behavior but this has in no way stopped me from using the bones system.
My animation won the February Caligary Gallery monthly contest and it's got a reasonable amount bone driven animation.
I don't know if that qualifies as using trueSpace and it's features deep enough to stumble across bugs and quirks - I've noticed plenty of unexpected and downright inconvenient behaviour - but if one method fails I simply find another. If my car breaks down I'll take a bus, if the route I'm taking is blocked I'll just look for another route.
I was promised a bones system. And it's too buggy to work with.In all honesty Tiles, comments like this really baffle me. I look at these forums and see posts and animations not only using the bones in artful ways but also singing their praises. Then I see you posting that they don't work and I think Huh?! Where is this guy coming from?
What makes me nuts at this point is that i know most of these bugs are fixed. But Caligari doesn't deliver it to me.
It is (C) . It's all about business here. It's not incompetent to sucessfully find an idiot that pays for a 6.7 version with non functional workspace side twice. An Alpha Version. Caligari managed that, which is high art. And with 7.6 maybe the third time. Because i am sure we have to charge for this one too. And i am sure it also comes with lots of new bugs. The bugfixes for that one may come with 7.7 then, in two or three years ...Dude what do you really expect? Of course it's all about business - that's what Caligari is and it's what they do, just like any other business. Not only that but it's a company in transition with it's flagship product also under total rebuilding.
The city I live in has a ring road system - for as long as I've lived here that ring road has created major traffic snarls because of constant road works. The roading system is constantly being repaired upgraded improved streamlined and made more efficient at delivering traffic to the next set of roadworks - that's life, thats the way complex systems work - and often don't work in places - and what should I do? Move to another city? You can be sure that city is also constantly working on it's roads too.
More in the next post..... |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 3, 2008, 4:20am
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It is simply more comfortable to deal it the current way, delivering the bugfixes with the next version.Is it? I'm sure you have good reasons to think this but I'm damned if I can think of one. To reuse the roading metaphor you are advocating going out and repairing each pothole one by one, year after year, which ultimately causes greater congestion and cost than simply temporarily closing off the road and rebuilding it all so that the potholes don't form. You said it yourself - it's all about business which means it's about cost effectiveness and providing goods and/or services in the most efficient and effective way possible so you can keep the costs down for the end user ensuring more sales etc etc.
Delivering Bugfixes in a more regular manner means more work. And that's the point i mean that Caligari doesn't care about its customers.
What Caligari never understood here is that this "comfortable" marketing has cost lots of potential customers. That's where this "keep your hands away" comes from. Tiles I fail to see how you can justify these comments - Caligari is a business and for a business to succeed it has to care about it's customers otherwise it's not doing business. Have you ever done any sales work or business management? I have done both as well as extensive customer service and I've attended management courses and seminars and all manner of business training And I have never heard of comfortable marketing.
Add to this that fact that my experience of Caligari's customer support and service has been outstanding. I have ongoing business associations with a local company and I can't get them to even answer their emails. I spend amounts of money with that company in orders of magnitude greater than any amount I've paid to Caligari. I sincerely wish that there were more companies out there with customer service standards that match Caligari's. Heck I've left a company I worked because they wouldn't allow me to provide effective customer service which hopefully gives you some idea of how important good service is to me. I've had better service than I get from Caligari, but not very often.
I have paid for this non functional software. And wait for the fixes. Since one year.Software you knew was in a transition phase, software that seems to function adequately for plenty of other people, software that is currently being revamped, improved and upgraded as we speak - what more can they possibly do? And how can complaining about things effectively improve them?
I still hope that trueSpace goes on in development. I still hope that at one point the workspace is at least as useful as the old core. Which is still a long way to go. Workspace is in its best areas incomplete, and in its worst areas unuseable.I agree with these sentiments in some senses but it's my experience that the workspace does plenty of things the old version couldn't do. The model side is useless for any realtime activities for example. Yes there are some areas that could work better - but I challenge you to find any product anywhere in the world that cannot be improved on - heck they still haven't perfected the mousetrap - they keep coming up with better ones.:D
What i also hope is that Caligari wakes up and starts to deliver bug fixes in a more regular manner. One year is definitely too long. And even Microsoft has a patch day.I can certainly understand why you might say this - for myself I hope Caligari fixes bugs in the most cost effective manner as this will not only keep prices down for the consumer it will also ensure the companies economic viability hopefully for many years to come.
I am no fanboy and Caligari is not god. Which means i have the right and the duty to complain. And i will complain as long as i have this disfunctional workspace here that i have paid for, and as long as it is necessary to get the features working that i was promised, that i have bought.Like you I am no fanboy nor do I see Caligari as god - I support Caligari because it's my experience that, within the bounds of reason and good business sense they have looked after me and I see them consistently trying to look after lots of other folks too - even the ones who complain.
Here's another question for you - if you do something, could be anything, and it fails to get you the results you wanted, what's the point of doing the same thing again and expecting a different result?
Even when it disturbs you ;)LOL - I was going to say it actually baffles me but you are right it does disturb me as well. I struggle to see any positive outcome to repeated complaints - I neither understand the motive nor the reason behind such an act and that's disturbing - maybe I'm missing something that you can see and I can't.
Additionally, these forums are like my local pub or bar - it's where I come to relax and join like minded folk in discussion about common interests - 3d art and the quirky and wonderful software we all use in so many unique ways.
I don't come here to listen to people complain about the barkeeper or the beer he serves and I fail to understand why anyone who was that dissatisfied would want to continue to subject themselves to that dissatisfaction - it baffles me and disturbs me.It is fine when you are satisfied with the current buggy beast. I am not.I guess this is another place where you and I see different viewpoints - for me it's not a question of being satisfied with my beast it's all about being satisfied with where it takes me - and though sometimes trueSpace resists and doesn't go where I'd like it to every time in the way that I'd prefer, it has, for the last 7 years taken me most satisfactorily to everywhere I wanted to go. |
Post by Steinie // Apr 3, 2008, 5:27am
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I read Wizards and Tiles feelings about the bugs or lack of bugs in trueSpace with mixed emotion. Tiles comes across as a pain in the butt, BUT thank goodness he is here. I too want bug free software so I don't disagree with his statements. He is just disgusted about (apparently) not being heard from release to release.
"All programs have bugs"? Please name me ONE bug in Photoshop. I've used it myself for years without issue. (I'm also very aware that trueSpace is a complex piece of software)
Wizard, your feelings toward trueSpace is really commendable but your feelings won't bring back countless users that bailed on Caligari because of Bugs.
Maybe you like finding work a rounds but not everyone shares your energy.
With all that being said my job is in Quality Assurance were bugs are a part of my job. Sure there will be some left over from version to version. Since they are prioritized some bugs may never be fixed. That is a fact of life. The question will always be asked "Is it cost effective to fix?"
Unless we hear the voices of Tiles and others the answer will always be no.
Having Microsoft as an owner now bugs may be much more important then self preservation. |
Post by Tiles // Apr 3, 2008, 7:23am
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Phew, impossible to answer all your points. You have definitely more energy for that.
Just lemme answer this one. Even this will end in half a book:
I struggle to see any positive outcome to repeated complaints - I neither understand the motive nor the reason behind such an act and that's disturbing - maybe I'm missing something that you can see and I can't.
Heh, from my point of angle it is also hard to understand to act your way. Praising something that simply refuses to be good enough for that.
First, i know both worlds. Not just the world of making graphics. I make games since years. Graphics, Sound FX, Music, programming, i do everything by myself to finish my games. And i can tell you that i will not fix bugs in my games and apps when nobody reports them. Because i don't know about them then. I will not change features in my games and apps until somebody complains about. Because they seem to be good enough: nobody complains.
So for your answer what it`s good for: it's good for development. It's good to get feedback what went wrong, where is need to improve. So that development happens at all.
What would we have when everybody at TS 1 have said, okay, that is it, that is my ultimate graphics software. I don't need anything else for the rest of my life. What would we have then? You still miss the need for complaining? A practical success for complaining is the fact that we have an menu in the workspace side now that allows us to save our work externally. That one appeared by complaining. How should Caligari have known about the need when nobody would have complained?
Your input that the bones system is good as it is will just lead to the fact that caligari will not touch it. Why should they? It's good enough for you as you point out here.
The need to complain, another example: What i have seen happen is that the german trueSpace community transisted to a now non existant german trueSpace community. They all disappeared, using something else now. And they don't come back. Just a handfull trueSpace users left from formerly several hundrets. Main reason for that is not as you may think because of missing features. The main reason was that trueSpace is too buggy. And no bug fixes.
And that's what you overlook. That's what you miss. The fact that cheering is nice for the developer, feeding him with the needed energy to go on. But it's the complainers and bug reporters that are needed for development.
You try to battle with me instead here, telling me to stop talking. I will not do that. Too much have stopped talking here for my flavour.
While at that. This is the second time that you try to point out that my knowledge is not good enough. The second time that you try to tell me that your knowledge is bigger than mine. Please stop that. Arguments should be answered with arguments, not with insult and discredit the persons. This is something that disturbs me.
Fact is it is because of the bugs that i have quit using 7.5, and not lack of knowledge. The one with the default pose was one of many. Much too many.
By the way, i am a TS User since nearly 10 years now. I know how to battle with the old bones system, I know how to battle with motion studio, I know how to battle with the new one up to the point where the bug catched me. I have rigged several hundrets of meshes over the years. |
Post by transient // Apr 3, 2008, 4:32pm
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Arguments should be answered with arguments, not with insult and discredit the persons. This is something that disturbs me.
I think your probably smart enough to see the strategy here, Tiles.
Ultimately, whether anybody likes tiles' attitude or not (I'll refrain from judging him), everything he's saying is based on fact.
Caligari have decided to let the more zealous users do the fighting for them, and it's just making things worse. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 3, 2008, 5:38pm
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I think Tiles bug hunting has been very useful and I hope he will continue to post when he finds them. From the way I see it, Wizard's complaint is more likely with the negativity of the tone. |
Post by transient // Apr 3, 2008, 7:03pm
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That's no reason to flame someone.
And really if tiles is out of line then he should be explained why by Caligari, as his ire is directed at them, not any particular individual.
Self appointed wyatt earps always cause more trouble than they fix, no matter how good their intentions may be. |
Post by TylerZambori // Apr 3, 2008, 8:02pm
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That's no reason to flame someone.
And really if tiles is out of line then he should be explained why by Caligari, as his ire is directed at them, not any particular individual.
Self appointed wyatt earps always cause more trouble than they fix, no matter how good their intentions may be.
Er, I don't even read Wizard's posts on threads like this, because I
know it will be fanboyism. Sorry but it's true. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 3, 2008, 8:48pm
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That sounds insultingly judgmental, Transient. I don't think anyone on this forum is running posse for Caligari. We all have our complaints about various parts of the software and things we'd like to see improved. All of us here that are helping out others are giving freely of our time for the betterment of the TrueSpace community.
I agree with Wizard that the tone around here has been very negative lately. There's a difference between frustration and venting, and the "Caligari sucks and just wants your money" kind of negativity. Negativity that drives down Caligari's sales certainly doesn't help us users any either.
I also agree with Wizard that if a person hates the software so much that they only have negative things to say, why are they still here and why are they still using the software? If TrueSpace doesn't meet that person's needs and they're losing valuable production time, wouldn't it make sense to move to another software?
You'll notice that the people complaining the loudest are the ones that still use Model-side (or 6.6) for the majority of their work and haven't successfully transitioned to using the Workspace side tools. I suspect that many of these users clinging to the old may never transition to the new architecture and will either be stuck in the past or have to move on to a different software. This is something that they need to accept. The old trueSpace is not coming back and is mainly provided via the bridge to help provide missing functionality until it can be added to Workspace side and as a convenience to help users transition to Workspace side at their own pace. Something that always confused me about users not making the switch to workspace is: if that person doesn't like Workspace now, why would they like it any better after the tools are moved over?
Caligari certainly hasn't done itself or it's users any favors in that the manual, training courses, and tutorials are still very Model-side focused. It doesn't help new users to start them off on the old architecture. Though the new videos added to the manual do help a lot.
Not to mention from the way I understand it, TS 8.0 will drop model side entirely. That is required for it to become a 64-bit app and Roman has said 8.0 will be available as 64bit, so 7.6 is likely the end of the line for people who cannot move away from the old architecture.
There's not a lot I can say about 7.6 because of the NDA (basically only what Roman has already released :p), but personally I think many of you will be very surprised by the scope of the 7.6 release. From bug fixes (some already noted in these forums) to new features (for example, Morphing as demonstrated by Prodigy and Roman in the Captain's blog), this coming release has a lot to offer. In the old days I think this kind of release would've warranted a version number change instead of being a point release. ;)
Of course, that could have easily been said about 7.5 as well, it's a shame that the severity and quantity of the bugs in 7.5 marred what was an amazing step forward from 7.1.
If you guys want signs to read, take one look at what indirectly Prodigy pointed out earlier: notice how you hear a lot less grumbling from the beta testers this time around than previous 7.x releases. ;) My advice would be for users to put in the time to learn the new tools. The new Workspace environment is more enjoyable to work in than model side once you get the hang of it. It is very much like learning a new software all over again, but I feel that it is well worth it.
Keep in mind that a lot of new custom functionality has been packed into 7.5 and if a tool doesn't act quite the way you expect it too, a lot of times, right clicking on it's icon to bring up it's option panel will provide an answer. :) And there's also always help from the other users here in the forums.
I can tell you straight up, that the guys at Caligari are listening, and are VERY busy right now working very hard to make TrueSpace better. |
Post by Tiles // Apr 3, 2008, 9:29pm
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You'll notice that the people complaining the loudest are the ones that still use Model-side (or 6.6) for the majority of their work and haven't successfully transitioned to using the Workspace side tools. ... The old trueSpace is not coming back ...
And again there is this misunderstanding. Yes, i still use the old architecture: trueSpace 6.6. But i don't complain because i like the old architecture and the old handling more than the new one. I complain because i try, or better said tried, to use the new one and the software doesn't let me. I ended in making screeenshots and reporting bugs for nearly every feature i wanted to try. I HAVE to use 6.6 to get things done.
I would love to use the workspace features. Really. It has its reasons why you can find so many bug reports from me ;)
On the other hand, it is of course irritating when a task that needed one mouseclick in the old architecture now needs half an engineer, including several workarounds. But that is another chapter. It's really the bugs i am after here. And how Caligari lets me as a customer alone with these problems.
As told, i have seen the german trueSpace community disappear. It not longer exists. The people moved to something working. And when i talked to them the reason was nearly always the bugs. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 4, 2008, 12:01am
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Didn't mean to single you out in particular Tiles, it was more of a general observation. :o
I agree the level of bugs on 7.5 was unfortunate and simply judging by the change in activity level on the forum has cost Caligari a great many customers. Fingers are crossed that won't be the case with the upcoming release...
I think it's really important and that in someways Caligari "owes" it to their long time customers to "get it right" with this release. Especially considering that this is likely the final iteration containing the old model side core.
For those of us already migrated to Workspace side, the stakes are not quite so high as Workspace side is the future of TrueSpace and with the eventual arrival of 8.0 will finally be cut free from the old modeler core to really fly.
It's going to take a fair bit of work by Caligari to bring in new talent and rebuild the userbase though, but I think that is where the partnership with Microsoft will really pay off. Both in the financial resources needed to weather the transition and to get the visibility needed to attract new users after the transition is completed. |
Post by Tiles // Apr 4, 2008, 1:12am
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General observation is a dangerous thing sometimes :D
I agree with you though that a new software is always a hurdle. You need to learn it. And the new architecture is a new software. So my case may vary from the rest.
This immense amount of bugs has indeed cost lots of customers. But from my angle of view, talking with the guys that migrated, it's not only the lots of bugs that has cost the customers, it's that Caligari doesn't deliver bugfixes in a regular manner. Why should you stay with a buggy software when the company traditionally doesn't deliver bugfixes? The 7.51 case again shows what is tradition since years: no bugfixes for the customers. The gaps between the releases are simply too big.
Jack, you are in a special situation. You have access to the Betas where my bugs are fixed. I have not. I need to battle with the currently not fixed bugs here when i touch the beast. And that simply stops me to migrate. Because i need working tools. Brings me nothing when the bug fixes arrives a year or two later with the next version. I need to shape, texture, rig and animate my mesh with what's available. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 4, 2008, 2:35am
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Fair points all, Tiles. :o |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 4, 2008, 3:26am
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Tiles I do apologise if my words came across as insulting - that was certainly not my intention. I agree wholeheartedly that arguments should be answered with arguments.
I'm not in the practice of flaming people despite Transients impressions. If anyone takes my words as insulting I ask you to point out the insult so that I may be clearer and correct myself if required.
Tiles many of your points I agree with - it is important to say something when things do not work - but constantly complaining and repeating the same message is counterproductive. Yes the squeaky wheel is the one that gets oiled and from that perspective your complaints are certainly justifiable - you make a good point.
My concern is and always has been for this community of tS users which I value highly. My concern is this: how many people come to visit these forums and see complaint after negative complaint and think, sod this I'm going somewhere else? Every time that happens Caligari loses potential income which could be put to fixing the very problems you complain about! Catch 22.
Jack has correctly interpreted my meaning - it's not what is said but the way it is said. Consider these statements:
(1) I was trying to do somethings with the new bones system and there seemed to be a problem with the reset pose function - it would be great if Caligari could look at this and fix it.
(2) The new bones system does not work and Caligari does not care.
There is a vast difference between criticism and constructive criticism.
The science of Game Theory talks about success strategies and has shown that taking an "always nice" attitude is ultimately more effective than any other behavioral strategy. Any psychologist, dog trainer, horse whisperer or parent with happy kids will tell you that positive reinforcement is far more effective than negative reinforcement.
I am as aware as the next guy that trueSpace has areas in need of development - saying it does not work is an unfair exaggeration that gives a misleading picture.
But I've said all this before - I'm just sharing my point of view I'm not asking anyone to agree with it if they don't want to.
On a personal note Tiles I have no problem with you and I clearly see the positive intention behind your approach - it's the inflationary language that troubles me. Saying 'there is a bug with the Reset Pose function' is a true and fair statement - saying 'the bones do not work' is not true - people including myself use them everyday - nor is it accurate. It is misleading and potentially harmful in my opinion.
Transient - please re-read my post. You have misread it and you are casting negative assumptions about me - if I've flamed anyone here please put your money where your mouth is and show me the quote where I've flamed someone. Until such time as you are able to indicate direct quotes showing I've flamed someone please keep your personal judgements about me to yourself.
Regarding your earlier remark, that what Tiles is saying is based on fact is true. Tiles statements are based on fact and I've never disputed that. But an exaggeration based on fact is not a fact, it's an exaggeration and is therefore untrue. Tiles is entitled to any attitude or opinion he wishes to hold but he is not entitled to his own facts any more that I am.
Lastly Transient let me quote you. You wrote "Self appointed wyatt earps always cause more trouble than they fix, no matter how good their intentions may be." If that remark is directed at me then I must say I find it offensive as well as untrue. I can't help wondering how good your intentions are? |
Post by jamesmc // Apr 4, 2008, 3:29am
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I can tell you why I stick mostly to the model side.
- Layer support (Can actually use PSD layers in post production)
- Two Render Engines (three actually)
- The texturing is more conventional, not exactly Photoshop, but I don't have to plug in cube X into node B and switch on transform characteristic Y, in order to paint something (BTW, what the hell is wrong with keeping with known conventions like Photoshop anyway?)
- The training videos are made for version 7.1. I look at my interface, I look at the training interface - different. I hear and see terms that are like, wtf, there is none of that in 7.51.
- The videos I like, tS for Illustrators etc. etc. are made in the model side.
- LUUV import and other tsx. I mean Caligari sells the bleeping plug-ins and they only work on the model side - duh!
- Having three thousand different sets of shaders. Oh, I'm in workspace side, tS can't use that shader and blah blah. Makes me glad I accumulated all those shaders that are totally useless in half the program I use.
-Bugs and Crashes, Did I mention bugs and crashes. Let me open the pprogram, oops it's opening slow again and then boom! crash! let's try that again - nope, crash. Try it a day later - ah - nope - crash.
- Duh Panel. Lot's of twirlies and lots of hidden items, because the manual is out of date and the videos are made for another version, I don't know what the hell they are, where they are or what the hell they do!
- I like bitching cause I'm old and I can. :) |
Post by RAYMAN // Apr 4, 2008, 3:29am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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I dont realy get what you are talking about new architecture here.
some of us are people who not start doing things the box modeling way
if a simple one step rotosplineing would do !
lack of booleans huh !
another getting used to.......
no nurbs .... well who uses nurbs .... because some people at Pixar
side say its not the " fashion " nowadays.......
Most objects of our daily use are designed this way !
Am I just missing something or are we forced into a " BOX ".
Nobody said that a new architecture needed "NEW " tools.;)
If we have new tools that doesnt have to be based on the expense
of what we had. because some of us liked some of it... !
I´m not a big fan of how plastiform worked but roto and extrusion etc.
were very nice...
I could imagine more usefull nurbs tools.....
how about circles and elipses .....anyone ?
Arcs ? forgotten tools ? the fantastic model side primitives !!!!!!!!
I can tell you about hundreds of shapes that can be done with
these tools or nurbs in a minute that take half an hour in box modeling !
I JUST DONT WANT TO SPEND HALF AN HOUR INSTEAD OF 1 MINUTE !:p
Peter |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 4, 2008, 3:32am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Er, I don't even read Wizard's posts on threads like this, because I
know it will be fanboyism. Sorry but it's true.
LOL - er, how can you know what my posts are about if you don't read them?
If you want to claim it's true then prove it. Just because you have an opinion based on something you've never read does not make it true.
But then, you'll never know that because you don't read my posts, you just have opinions about them and advertise them as facts.
What was it Charlie Brown used to say? |
Post by Steinie // Apr 4, 2008, 3:35am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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JamesMc, that was a pretty good argument for using the Model side and I hope those items will be in 7.6.
Regardless I love the new WorkSpace side and can't wait to see the needed toolset show up there. It is much more stable and a lot of it's problems are because of it's nasty relatives (Model Side). |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 4, 2008, 3:41am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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JamesMc, that was a pretty good argument for using the Model side and I hope those items will be in 7.6.
Regardless I love the new WorkSpace side and can't wait to see the needed toolset show up there. It is much more stable and a lot of it's problems are because of it's nasty relatives (Model Side).
Strikes me as a pretty good argument for using the bridge - that way you have access to twice as many bugs - er I mean cool features.;) |
Post by TylerZambori // Apr 4, 2008, 5:21am
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TylerZambori
Total Posts: 100
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LOL - er, how can you know what my posts are about if you don't read them?
If you want to claim it's true then prove it. Just because you have an opinion based on something you've never read does not make it true.
But then, you'll never know that because you don't read my posts, you just have opinions about them and advertise them as facts.
What was it Charlie Brown used to say?
wow, you assume a lot, then you judge.
I read your posts, and felt they were too fan-boy-ish, and stopped
reading them. wait, is there still any wind in your sails? |
Post by frootee // Apr 4, 2008, 6:09am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Look folks, This doesn't need to degenerate into a personal argument.
Seems like the original topic has gone off course eh?
Personally I'm looking forward to the release of 7.6. |
Post by RAYMAN // Apr 4, 2008, 6:18am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Frotee ... the point is we are argueing about TS 8 already !
I personaly expect much from TS 8 !
no more excuses..... transition this transition that.
if you look at new primitives ... they deserve the name.
If you compare them with model side primitives......
they look RUN OUT OF MONEY !;)
Peter |
Post by Tiles // Apr 4, 2008, 6:40am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Wizard, i don't have anything against you neither.
My concern is and always has been for this community of tS users which I value highly. My concern is this: how many people come to visit these forums and see complaint after negative complaint and think, sod this I'm going somewhere else? Every time that happens Caligari loses potential income which could be put to fixing the very problems you complain about! Catch 22.
Hmm, i have the feeling you still don't get the point. There is nearly nobody left to visit this forum. They are all gone because of the bugs. I told you what happened to the german trueSpace community. Over 400 formerly users. Do you really think limiting answers to something like "aww, look at this neeat feature, it doesn't work, but look it is sooo cute" will change anything at that fact?
Besides that, i can rarely see permanent complainings here. They are nearly all left, have given up.
One more release like the 7.51 one with hundrets of bugs and no fixes and even Microsoft will not be able to hold Caligari into business.
Jack has correctly interpreted my meaning - it's not what is said but the way it is said. Consider these statements:
(1) I was trying to do somethings with the new bones system and there seemed to be a problem with the reset pose function - it would be great if Caligari could look at this and fix it.
(2) The new bones system does not work and Caligari does not care.
I reported dozens of bugs. Caligari didn't care. I still have no bug fixes. And there is a point where you have to put out your ellbows. See above.
There is a vast difference between criticism and constructive criticism.
How true. But there is a time where constructive criticism doesn't help anymore. By the way, how much bugs did you report? ;) |
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