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The 'Thing' is dead... Long live the 'Thing'.
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
The 'Thing' is dead... Long live the 'Thing'. // Work in Progress
Post by MadMouse // May 5, 2008, 12:05am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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After much deliberation I have decided to go back to the drawing board (yet again) with my thing project :- For Old Project CLICK HERE (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5218)
A combination of my poor rigging skills, a lack of forward planning and a rethink over my target market has lead me to scrap my old design. I felt that he/she was overly cute to reach a wide market. The lack of planning I had put into the mesh gave me problems when trying to rig the model. And I found it difficult to get the range of expressions that are vital to this project using the 'texture method' that I was planning (Yes I know you told me so Mr. Splinters;))
So... I was about ready to give up and consign this one to the great scrap heap in the sky.
Then I stumbled on this product :- Emotiguy (http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/shop/itemdetails/-/?item=3101&cat=10&_m=d)
and this add on :- Emotiguy Plane (http://www.3duniverse.co.za/viewproduct.asp?PID=90)
A combination of the two inspired me towards the idea of making a pose-able 'body suit' for the Emotiguy face to fit into. Thus giving me the flexibility of the Emotiguy's facial morphs and a pose-able body.
I've check with 3D Universe (http://www.3duniverse.co.za/) the makers of Emotiguy, in case I was infringing on their copyright and they have been kind enough to give this project their blessing.
Is this cheating?........ Yes probably, but 80% of the modeling and 100% of the texturing will be mine so I like to think of it as ingenuity!
This is what I have so far (No body yet obviously):-
Here's hoping 3rd times the charm :D
Comments and crits are most appreciated guys,
ATB
Steve
Edit: BTW does his skin look like fuzzy felt/muppet skin? Thats what I was going for. |
Post by splinters // May 5, 2008, 3:42am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Maybe subconscious Madmouse, or pure coincidence but he looks like the missing 'Planet Hopper':
http://www.woodwardp.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Planethoppers.htm
Only yours is much, much better....:D
Similar colours; that is all...;) |
Post by Steinie // May 5, 2008, 9:08am
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Steinie
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I like this new design. Three suggestions...
The material could be more pronounced for the felt look. Two of the panels almost have it right.
I would make the antenna slightly longer.
I would move the eye brows further apart so they don't touch the hair in the center. |
Post by jamesmc // May 5, 2008, 9:28am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Looks pretty close to fuzzy skin MM.
I trade making some velvet the other day and never could get it quite right.
Used some layered fractals and came close. Only observation I came up with is that material that has a "knap" to it, has a series of complex shadows graduating into highlights.
That and it's hard to simulate "hair, fuzz, fur and and strand based graphic without the real thing.
But generally, looks good to me, not sure what to suggest to make it stand out more though. Indirect lighting maybe? |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // May 5, 2008, 1:16pm
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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Looks good. Not quite getting the 'Muppet skin' look. Seems to have a bit of a 'glow' for that (highlights too heavy?). Maybe reducing the specular a touch and upping the noise might work? If you're rendering in Lightworks then you can get perfection with the Plush Simbiont shader.
Looking darn cute regardless! |
Post by splinters // May 5, 2008, 1:25pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Just one thing concerns me Madmouse. After visiting the link to the emotiguy, I realise now just how similar the two characters were. While this is a 'quick-fix' solution, is it really your individual style?
I know how long each image takes you to produce, but when you do, each image is something special. Not sure you will be so happy with this guy when he looks like a green version of this (below);
We go back a long way Mr Mouse and I love your work, just not sure about the use of emotiguy in this although the rest of the character is excellent.
Just my opinion...:o |
Post by splinters // May 5, 2008, 1:36pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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...unless there is a 'lucrative' outlet for an emotiguy variation, in which case....;) |
Post by Burnart // May 5, 2008, 2:07pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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I get Splinters comments re-Emotiguy but that is a disembodied head I think there is more to this alien character. As an extension to a pre-existing item I don't have a problem with that. Once you have a body you like you could change heads anyway!
Also I quite like the way Steve at 3DUniverse models his characters - wish I could figure out how to create meshes and animation structures with the kind of flexibility which allows for such extreme facial poses. I've bought several of his models over the years just to look at the mesh! Still none the wiser though! |
Post by W!ZARD // May 5, 2008, 11:49pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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If the latest vids in the Captains Blog are anything to go by you'll soon be able to do this kind of morphing totally within trueSpace.
I tend to agree with Splinters but I also suspect a lot has to do with the intended end use of the character.
I think Emotiguy is pretty cool - even if he looks like the yellow M&M guy!
I still like the version that looked like a peanut possessed by a demon best but I'm just that kinda guy! |
Post by MadMouse // May 6, 2008, 8:23am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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I would make the antenna slightly longer.
I would move the eye brows further apart so they don't touch the hair in the center. He did originally have long antenna, similar to the original thing but personally I felt they look a little odd with the much rounder face. As for eyebrow.......CHECK! will do.
I know how long each image takes you to produce, but when you do, each image is something special. Not sure you will be so happy with this guy when he looks like a green version of this
I tend to agree with Splinters but I also suspect a lot has to do with the intended end use of the character.
I take your point. If I were doing this for myself then he would look a lot different. But as he's destined for commercial ends, I need to look at functionality as well as what makes me happy. The emotiguy's flexability of expression is just what I need. But as W!Z said, looking at the captains blog, I should be able to do this directly in TS, in the fullness of time.:banana:
Fuzzy felt/muppet skin/fur its all flexible yet. I suspect that I might not like it so much when I've done the body in the same texture anywho.
Thanks guys.
Steve |
Post by Ambrose // May 6, 2008, 8:59am
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Ambrose
Total Posts: 261
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Great work as usual MadMouse!
The muppet skinni is spot on, I really like the colors.
Oh just look at those eyes and the redness of the wessels?, were the blood goes...
Looks really great!
Once again, I'm home looking at this with my Dell Triniton 21' monitor, at work it didn't look any special, this is the reason I don't want to go flat until I'm convinced it looks as good.
did I say great work ;)
Keep it up...
SeYa/Ambrose... |
Post by MadMouse // May 12, 2008, 12:11pm
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Back with another update....
I've recycled my MkII thing into the body of MkIII thing.
And have total re-topologised the mesh so that it flow much better, hopefully this will help me in the rigging stage.
Obviously no textures yet, just block colors to give you the feel of the finished thing.
I'm much happier with this version. I think I've captured the right balance between cute and cheeky/comical.
Coupled with the very expressive face I think I might be on to a winner this time.
Any comments or crits are welcome.
ATB
Steve |
Post by splinters // May 12, 2008, 12:44pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Love the cheeky 'bum' shot..:D
Nice work Steve, looking forward to seeing more of this project...;) |
Post by W!ZARD // May 12, 2008, 8:26pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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LOL - He looks great! One does wonder why he wears a helmet on his head but no underpants but hey, what do I know about alien fashion statements?!
I could imagine a bunch of these guys - each with it's own unique characteristic - interacting together. Once you get him rigged that's when the real fun starts. Looking good so far. |
Post by MadMouse // May 13, 2008, 9:32am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Thanks guys,
I could imagine a bunch of these guys - each with it's own unique characteristic - interacting together.
Now that's just spooky! Stay tuned ;) |
Post by Breech Block // May 13, 2008, 10:30am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Hi MadMouse. First of all, congratulations on creating such a superb character. I love it! Second, its very hard to post a comment when you know you could never make anything near as good – even if you lived to be a 100; but here's my two penny's worth:
I think the addition of the eyebrows definitely help out in portraying your character's emotional expression. But in the images you've shown above there seems to be an inconsistency in their placing, almost as if they are acting independent of the model. In one particular view, they are almost on top of his helmet.
I'd also like to see his quiff showing some degree of movement or flopping about. As the hair is on his forehead, as he frowns or raises his eyebrows you think the underlying muscles would have some influence. Even the tiniest of movement could add some further characterisation.
And last but not least, I know you have discussed the changing of his antenna before, but I think you might want to examine this feature in a bit more depth. By this, I mean what is their real life purpose? Do they allow your character to sense danger? Do they allow telepathic communication or do they just aid his current senses. Once you have figured that out you can then decide if you will ever have to communicate that fact to the viewer and if so, how that will be implemented in the character's animation - which in turn may have an influence on their design.
Hope you don't consider these comments as nitpicking and are of some help. |
Post by MadMouse // May 13, 2008, 12:10pm
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Hi Breech,
Thanks for your thoughtful comments:-
its very hard to post a comment when you know you could never make anything near as good – even if you lived to be a 100 You know, I used to say things like that, and I'm not quite 100 yet :D
.....almost as if they are acting independent of the model. In one particular view, they are almost on top of his helmet. Hmmmmm... They are supposed to be free floating but I take your point. To be honest I didn't put too much effort into the expression tests, I'll keep you comment in mind when I start the finished poses.
I'd also like to see his quiff showing some degree of movement or flopping about. So would I:D... unfortunately because the hair is separate from the face mesh and I am not allowed to alter the face mesh because of 3D universes copyright, it would be tricky to rig the hair to move. Possible I suppose but I personally don't think its worth the extra work.
I know you have discussed the changing of his antenna before, but I think you might want to examine this feature in a bit more depth. I do take your point but I think the antennas are down to personal taste and I have tried different styles before settling on these ones.
Thanks again Breech & welcome to the forum BTW
ATB
Steve |
Post by 3dfrog // May 14, 2008, 5:56am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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Dude, you're my hero. I love this character. If you want him rigged send him to me. :) |
Post by Improv // May 14, 2008, 6:06am
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Improv
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LOL - He looks great! One does wonder why he wears a helmet on his head but no underpants but hey, what do I know about alien fashion statements?!
What's with these toons? I mean the alien wears a helmet but no underpants, Donald Duck wears a shirt but no pants, Mickey Mouse wears pants, but no shirt.
Hmmm.....:p |
Post by kena // May 14, 2008, 11:09am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Toon Clothing Act of 1913:
No Toon shall have more than one piece of clothing and accesories that go along with it.
Modification to TOON Clothing act of 1945: No Toon Wearing a dress may skip wearing panties.
:p |
Post by MadMouse // May 18, 2008, 5:18am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Thanks Guys......:D
Well I'm back with the textured version. There is going to be times when my 'thing' will be wearing costumes/props and times when it wont,
so I've made two versions of the body textures, with and without spacesuit.
Comments and crits are most welcome.
Now on to the rigging (again :rolleyes: )
ATB
Steve |
Post by hemulin // May 18, 2008, 5:32am
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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Very impressive stuff there MadMouse! Looking at the UV Maps and comparing them to the actual model, however have you managed to make the spacesuit so shiny without making his skin shiny? |
Post by splinters // May 18, 2008, 5:36am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Very impressive indeed Steve but are you pinching my Planet Hoppers textures now...;)
C'mon Hemulin, surely you know that a texture is a different beast to a reflection channel...I suspect compositing here..:rolleyes: |
Post by hemulin // May 18, 2008, 5:40am
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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C'mon Hemulin, surely you know that a texture is a different beast to a reflection channel...I suspect compositing here..:rolleyes:
Yes, yes, I mean how has he managed to have the spacesuit reflective with the skin not, using the same texture map. :) |
Post by MadMouse // May 18, 2008, 6:04am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Very impressive indeed Steve but are you pinching my Planet Hoppers textures now... Yep ;) BTW I'm also working on a web site called 'BuddyLand' ;):D
I suspect compositing here.. Nope, all done in one pass.
Yes, yes, I mean how has he managed to have the spacesuit reflective with the skin not, using the same texture map. Its done with a layered texture, one layer has a Caligari Phong shader and the other has an Enviroment map. The two layers are blended using alpha masks (see image)
Hope that answers your question Hemulin. (If you want to know more give me a shout)
HTH
Steve |
Post by hemulin // May 18, 2008, 6:06am
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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Hope that answers your question Hemulin. (If you want to know more give me a shout)
Perfectly, thanks! :) |
Post by jamesmc // May 18, 2008, 6:17am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Appears to be a fun figure to work on! Although there is an apparent lack of nipples, I find the more than ample butt crack sufficient in size and scope to take up any slack in the cleavage department.
The silver suit is quite nice. It appears to be both formal and utilitarian. I don't suppose there is a chance for matching heels and hand clutch bag?
I find the addition of the back zipper enticing as well. It titilates the senses while invoking the mental imagery of a tightly lighted room scene that states "Can you zip me up please?"
I'm afraid there may be some problems with the helm as it is large and cumbersome. Perhaps a helm on the 'halfshell' or maybe even a biker/SpaceBalls implementation of naturalistic shaping that invokes the intimate relationship of flight and fantasy driven sensual escapades.
I'm particularly fond of the UV layout and the possibilities that a wardrobe of different UV layouts could be assembled for both order and style. I think a lovely transparent plastic bag holder with a stylish hanger would magnificently offset the theme of alternating 'thingware.'
I'm wondering too if there is a chance of any velcroe in the near future. I can envision a 3D space environment game of lawn darts where velcroe attachments are used in order to launch weightless platform landings. You know, the essence of 3D things as 'wall art.'
I was hoping that you go for a 'spaghetti western theme' but found myself not at all disappointed in the results. In fact, I'm arranging some aluminum foil into evening ware as we speak! |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // May 18, 2008, 8:39am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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Adore the character and the texture work is, of course, outstanding but, on a personal level, I don't like the purple splodges. Just makes me think he's got some icky space plague. |
Post by Breech Block // May 18, 2008, 11:22am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Great work MadMouse. Personally, I liked the splodges on his skin; especially as you did not go overboard and cover his entire body. In addition, I like the way their colouring ties in with his hair. The spacesuit is also very, very good and although insanely impractical, the zip at the back is a touch of comic genius. And, it obviously covers his butt crack. This brings me on to the only thing that I didn't quite like and that was the fact you could still see his belly button when he was wearing his suit, although I obviously understand the technical reasons why. But all in all a remarkable piece of work. |
Post by Georg // May 18, 2008, 10:51pm
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Georg
Total Posts: 270
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Just fantastic, what can I say, a master at work. The layered textures are great, too bad they can only be used with Lightworks.
georg |
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