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Apr MMC - Character - Dragn
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Apr MMC - Character - Dragn // Work in Progress
Post by Dragneye // Jun 15, 2008, 9:44pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Breech Block thanx. Actually, there's a cheat that I've come up with (one of the things I was trying to work out). Now maybe you all do it dunno (being self taught has its good and bad) but for this line of work, for me it's about the bottom line; the easiest, fastest most efficient way to pop out a model and have it ready for effective rigging. From start to finish, not using anything pre-made. So here's the secret: create a basic, defined shape with the least polys, apply only one layer of SDS (which is quite effective at smoothing out the polys) and... done. Now it does take a lets say 300 poly model and turn it into 2000 or so, but, no time wasted adjusting (smoothing) polys, and also takes care of unfinished loops with one shot.
So que to you all. Am I doin good, or am I missing something? |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 15, 2008, 9:48pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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JACK!!!! :D
The only one I've used so far is in tS 6.6. |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 15, 2008, 10:07pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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for the record - these are the settings for skin texture - but,... my puter crashes every time i do a preview render. I think I may have to go back to the drawing board as i can only save to file to see it. - The Reflectance is flat/mat |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jun 15, 2008, 10:18pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Okie okie. :)
So assuming Lightworks and not Dribble. Open the ME and right click on the reflectance sphere. Select Mapped Metal in the pop up window.
Next click the red arrow next to where it says reflectance in the Material Editor. This will expand the settings for the Mapped Metal shader so that you can adjust them.
Click on the "spc" button next to it's slider. Then click on the gray box that appears where the slider was. This will pop up the dialog to load an image file. Select your bump map image file.
Repeat for the reflectance channel. Specular is a faked reflection of the light source object. So the change in specular would really be a change in the reflectivity of the object at that point, so it would make sense to use the same map on both.
If I remember right 6.6 doesn't have HDRI... which is what you'd use to give reflections for your reflective surfaces. That leaves you with the problem of needing something for the shiny areas to reflect. Possible approaches you could use would be to make a "sky sphere" or "sky box" with the background image mapped to them. That way the model can reflect the background image and would look natural. A sky sphere or sky box is basically a sphere uses the constant reflectance shader or a material with luminence set to 1.0. Wizard could probably help you with getting that set up. He uses Lightworks for many of his scenes.
You could also try using an IBL. It has an option to show the environment. Which should work similar to HDRI... :confused:
If you choose not to use the IBL, I recommend using a single infinite light to represent the sun or your main light source and a second infinite light (set to a much smaller amount) to represent the bounced light off of the surface the object is resting on. You can also use local and spot lights if there are other light sources or if you need to simulate light bounced off other surfaces. Make sure to delete any ambient lights you added for modeling as these will wash out your shadows and take away from the crispness of the image.
Edit: .... ack. you were using a procedural bump shader.... hmm.... you may be able to render it out on a plane to load in as a bitmap. |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 15, 2008, 10:20pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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...and here's the before shot - 2745 verts. After = 10,930 |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 15, 2008, 10:36pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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The procedure you mention (btw, I learned of a few more hidden pop up menus I didnt know I had; thanx) is to add to the dragon's skin right? What if I dont want to have his skin shiny like metal (matte i think looks more realistic). Did I miss somtin? |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jun 15, 2008, 11:15pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Hmm... I guess it's really up to what you want. I just find the matte look seems a bit like paper instead of a leathery or scaly skin... *shrug* |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 16, 2008, 1:41am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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The procedure you mention (btw, I learned of a few more hidden pop up menus I didnt know I had; thanx) is to add to the dragon's skin right? What if I don't want to have his skin shiny like metal (matte i think looks more realistic). Did I miss somtin?
If you use a fully matte finish it's going to look.... unreal (yeah I know we're talking about a dragon!!). In the real world there are probably no fully matte surfaces - even the dullest material will still have some degree of specularity. The secret to successful 3d images (so I'm told) is not necessarily to recreate a full 3d world but to remember you are simulating the real 3d world. Thus, the more accurately you can simulate (a fancy word for fake!) real world lighting effects the more convincing the outcome.
Even leather and skin - obviously not metallic substances - have some degree of specularity and variety in the way different areas give off highlights.
Also, you are using a procedural surface which has advantages - like easier mapping - and disadvantages - like the inability to easily change colour, reflection, bump and specular characteristics in selected areas.
FWIW - and hopefully this won't put you off - I believe the texturing aspect of 3d is actually harder than the modelling. This applies to real world modelling - most folk can glue up a basic Airfix plastic model but painting it convincingly takes very specialised skills and these take a while to master - with real models and 3d digital models.
Let me know if you need any help with skydomes or IBL lights - I'm not an expert but I've used these techniques with some success and I'm happy to help. |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 16, 2008, 8:34am
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Yes, you are both right; it does look like bad paper, and everything Does have a sheen/reflectance to it, I agree. I like to use a matte finish as I model believing its easier on my puter when i do preview renders (please tell me if that's right, or if it don't make a difference). Also realized lately that since I only have 1gb of memory on my graphics card, probably that's why most of my crashing happens (thinking back, a lot of the crashing happens when I preview render. Crashes other times also but thats a biggy).
Don't worry W!Z, I think each part is roughly equal in complexity, so there's nothing to get put off about. This is my new artform. Just have to get better at it all. Up till now (oh about a year n a half) I have concentrated on learning purely the 'making models' aspect of this world, while salivating at some of the Beautiful final renders many of you have created. Now I enter the fray, trying to get a handle on helping the computer recreate realism, so ANY input in that area is GREATLY appreciated. Thank You all in advance :jumpy:
I'm gonna try my hand at offering the best I can do/know, for this deadline, and then get down and study the nuances suggested so far. If my puter holds up, I got one or two more pretty posts to go :-). |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 16, 2008, 6:03pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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I did it! I did it! lolol
MAde the deadline (shhhhh). |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jun 16, 2008, 6:19pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Good job and congratulations Dragneye! :banana: |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 16, 2008, 6:44pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Thanx Jack. Great luck on yours.
Ok, now for some truth. The rig didn't work right so there is major post work on the dragon. I intentionally didn't blend it in well so one can see the work. Better, I'll post what the original looked like (the pic in this post) and you all can judge for yourselves if this deserves a vote at all, cuz there was major Painter work on it. But the above post has to be it for now. |
Post by Nez // Jun 17, 2008, 2:52am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Nothing wrong with a bit if post-work :D
I remember seeing a gallery winner (in a magazine, not here on Caligari) where someone had done their 3d model (in Max or whatever, can't remeber) and had then basically applied pretty much all the 'texturing' (including loads of rust etc totally in post process, using Photoshop - so he'd take a basically un-textured render and added al lthe texture (and quite a bit of detail) totally in post! And done an amazing job too....
Well done on the Dragon, good to see how far it's come and hopefully as you get to spend more time learning about texturing and lighting you'll be able to come back to it and have some more fun - and get a result that you don't need to do do much in the way of post on! ;) )
Poll's up - good luck!
NB - to anyone visiting before voting, go back and look at page 7! |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jun 17, 2008, 3:08am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I agree. Post work is a very important and expected step for the MMC. :) |
Post by 3dfrog // Jun 17, 2008, 4:51am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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Nice dragon dude! I wish I could control dragons like that guy! |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 21, 2008, 7:48pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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So... here's the problem. When I move the shoulder joint up (for example), the mesh warps in this fashion (pic 1). Can anyone offer some guidance as to why? Is it the mesh? the bone/joint placement? the vertice weight paint job? I'm stumped. Tried adjusting the weight painting, but to no appreciable effect. Its with Motionbuilder in 6.6, and I've tried to show as many angles as I could think of. ANY guesses?
Big problem because the same headache is happening on the wing of a bird I'm workin on. I'll share the rig and mesh if anyone wants to be kind enough to study it. |
Post by Nez // Jun 25, 2008, 1:45am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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No idea, but hopefully someone will have. You could try PMing someone like W!zard or 3dfrog as I know they've done some character animation so may have some idea?
Just dropped into announce here (as well asin the poll thread) that you're the winner of the MMC this time round! Congrats and get thinking for the next challenge :D |
Post by frootee // Jun 25, 2008, 2:10am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Hey Dragneye.
It sounds like what you're saying is, you want to adjust the shoulder joint by moving it, without editing the mesh. I.E., you want to edit your skeleton.
Looks like you're using MotionStudio. You should be able to exit the 'pose' mode first, before you edit the skeleton. If you do this, the mesh should not move when you move the shoulder joint.
When done adjusting the shoulder joint, be sure to turn on 'pose' mode again.
It's been awhile since I've use MoStu so my terminology may be off.
HTH!
Froo |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 25, 2008, 6:50am
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Wow... thanx Nez. So... how long did you have to wait before they gave ya the prize check? :-D Will head there and check it out.
No Froo, the problem is, the mesh warps like in the picture, whenever I move the joints of the wing. I have tried changing the attachment weights, but the warp still happens. I just wondering if my pictures give any indication of where the problem lies.
Anybody have any ideas? |
Post by frootee // Jun 25, 2008, 6:53am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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could you send me the mesh via email DragnEye? I'll see if I can take a look.
EDIT:
when you move the joint(s) of the wing, does the wing rotate up and down at all? Or does it just Shift (translate) up and down? If it only translates, perhaps the joint is set for translation only. You may have to check for the 'degrees of freedom' for the joint. Basically, what type of joint is it currently set to? I think what you'll want is to allow rotation only, in two dimensions: the first dimension, for up and down rotation (flapping of wings), and the second, for folding the wings back toward the body when the dragon is at rest. |
Post by nowherebrain // Jun 25, 2008, 1:22pm
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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Also check the SDS option inside MoS. |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 25, 2008, 6:24pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Thank you Frootee. It looks like the verts aren't attached, so that's why they're popping up, but they are, and smoothed. See what you can find
nowherebrain - never really touched that, but will do. Thanx man. |
Post by frootee // Jun 26, 2008, 3:04am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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looks like what you need is more flexibility, so I'd say, add another bone to split that current bone into two.
Also, that area would not need to flex as much; When moving that IK chain, start with the tip first, then the middle joint, and finally, that shoulder bone closest to the body. |
Post by frootee // Jun 26, 2008, 5:32am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Also, you may want to add edge loops around that shoulder area, i.e. make the mesh denser in that area, since that is where the crease is going to happen. In that type of area, you need more verts, closer together, for smooth bending. Otherwise you get this tearing effect. |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 27, 2008, 11:04pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Actually Froo, I'm trying a new placement for the 'shoulder' joint to see if it makes a difference. I tried it on my bird and I think it may work better. Also trying to see how many less polys I could get away with and then work my way up. We'll see how it goes. |
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