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Future Fighter
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Future Fighter // Work in Progress
Post by Breech Block // May 28, 2008, 3:57pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Thanks for all the very kind comments and apologies for taking so long to respond. It's my employer's fault of course. Just because he pays me every month doesn't mean he should me expect to work for him 38 hours a week. :p
The strange thing is, there was something about this model that I didn't quite like yet couldn't really identify. It was jamesmc's comments who finally helped me make the connection. This model was heavily based on the cockpit layout of the F 117 Stealth Fighter (which has actually been retired from service now I understand). Thus, the cockpit layout would have been designed literally decades ago. As my animation will be set in the near future, the layout will need to be a bit more Hi-Tech. I'd already started down this route by adding the widescreen MFD (Multi Functional Display) but I wasn't really clear as to why. I still think I need to go a bit further though.
To try and answer a couple of questions:
Holy crap dude how did you do that?
I think the model just looks more complicated than it is. Basically it's just a whole lot of cubes an cylinders placed in repeating offset patterns.
What Program did you use to do your texturing
Any texture work I have to do is done in an old copy of Paint Shop Pro (7.2)
Did you fit all that on one texture/UV space?
No. 90% of the various textures were applied using the Paint Face tool.
I forced myself to learn trueSpace's UV editor in order to texture the fighter plane itself. But since I now seem to be stuck in an endless loop of chasing mapping errors ever since I made some changes to the model, I'd thought I'd give it a miss for the cockpit. I'll definitely use only one texture/UV for the low-poly version though.
Which brings me on to a final point for any beginners following this thread:
Although I'd like to consider my ability to use trueSpace as competent (at best), this project is really causing me to analyse the way I work. When modelling the plane, I just jumped straight in, played about with some shapes and when I was relatively happy with the design, created and applied the texture; the way I always have. But now, having chosen to refine both the model and texture in line with some of this thread's feedback, I find that my total lack of planning is costing me a lot of lost hours. In addition, I'm finding that my unstructured approach is being reflected in how inflexible my work is when it comes to implementing design changes. In future projects I think I will definitely need to implement a more staged approach.
Sorry if this post seems a bit long-winded but I feel that if you take the time to place a comment then the very least I can do is take the time to provide an appropriate response.
Thanks again for all the comments and I will try to post some updated pics soon. |
Post by Michael Billard // May 28, 2008, 7:34pm
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Michael Billard
Total Posts: 125
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Holy cow that cockpit is something else! |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 1, 2008, 2:17pm
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Dragneye
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Beautiful work Breech Block. Wonderful detail. Also, thanx for the note; a good point that many will find useful. - And don't sweat long posts; it's all good if it's about helping others along. |
Post by Breech Block // Jun 15, 2008, 4:15pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Over the last few weeks, I have been attempting to update the Future Fighter's cockpit design. Whilst I think I have achieved bringing the model more into the "digital realm", I'm not so sure I haven't lost some of the originals charm and complexity or made the design a bit too gimmicky. Then again, perhaps I have just been staring at it for too damned long (I have even started to see it in my sleep now :().
Anyhow, I would be extremely grateful if someone could cast a fresh pair of eyes over it and let me know what you think. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jun 15, 2008, 5:50pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Looks good to me.
Only crit I have is that the metal isn't reflective and seems too matte. With as low poly your model is, you'd probably need to fake the reflection with specular mapping.
These shots take me back to the days of Wing Commander... :D
My advice would be to call it done and move on to the other parts. Keep in mind that if it's only going to show for a short part of your movie than it might not be worth spending the majority of the work on just the prop for that one scene. |
Post by ghost--scout // Jun 16, 2008, 12:20am
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ghost--scout
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Considering the way most of the advanced digital military technology I've used has gone in the last 2 years, you need to remove the MFD buttons and put a start bar at the bottom of each digital display (lol)
I think you've outdone yourself and EA/Janes/Origin would be proud if Janes and Origin still existed and were working on flight and space sims. |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 16, 2008, 8:54am
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Dragneye
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Looks awesome to me Breech Block. Great work. |
Post by Breech Block // Jun 17, 2008, 11:15am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Thanks very much guys, I guess I'll consider this as "job done" although, I might just tweak the shaders a bit when I see how it looks under a properly lit skydome. I'm now working on a complete new texture map for the fighter plane itself and hope to post an image of the aircraft, complete with cockpit, in a few days. |
Post by Breech Block // Jun 24, 2008, 5:48pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Oof...I have spent the last day or so mucking about trying to calibrate my monitor and now, viewing all my previous submissions to this thread, discover that they look pretty awful (way too dark) and definitely not as I intended. And, as for my render that I have prepared for the SMC, which I spent a fair while trying to achieve the correct lighting to suit the environment, it now looks all sickly orange. So, now that I have carried out these corrections my future submissions should look better...lesson learned.
The trouble is, I still think my monitor settings may be wrong. To clarify, I own a 24” Benq FP241WZ which for the price, should be capable of displaying quite a precise, quality image. I visited the sites kindly referred to me by Jack earlier in this thread and have spent many an hour sitting in a darkened room staring at various charts and adjusting various controls to get the image just so. In fact, I now know more about gamma readings than Dr David Banner. :D
However, before the adjustments, I could quite clearly see all the numbers on all 3 spheres on Jack's specular mapping image but now can only make out one 6 and one 7 on the left side of the main sphere. In addition, when viewing the pics on the SMC thread, whilst Prodigy's Space Shuttle and Changa's trio of plane both look quite stunning, all the other images look darker by varying degrees. For example the underbelly of rjeff's entry is very dark as is the planetry background. Matski007's football is also quite dark. Is this right? Is this how you who own calibrated monitors see those images? If not, I would be grateful for any further pointers?
PS: The monitor has 4 modes (Standard, Movie, Dynamic and Photo) and I have carried out the calibration and am currently viewing the site in Photo mode. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jun 25, 2008, 2:20am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Yep monitor calibration makes a huge difference! Just ask Wizard! ;)
You want your darks crisp, but distinct. So if you're losing detail then you've got it adjusted wrong. Same with the brights, as white as possible without losing detail.
The presets that come with the monitor usually don't work very well, so I always end up using the "custom" or "user" setting modes. You may well find that you can't get the monitor perfect on it's own, and that some of the settings will need to be tweaked in the video card panel. The important thing is to get the color balance correct on the monitor controls since you don't want to have to reset that from software every time your drivers update.
Also keep in mind that some colors are stronger than others Blue and Green for example are stronger than Red, so if you equal them out the color will tend to be too red/orange. Which is what it sounds happened in your case. The best way to tell if you colors are balanced is to get the gray scale gradient looking as gray as possible through the whole gradient.
I prefer stepped gradients better than smooth gradients for calibrating since smooth gradients tend to fool the eye too easily and it's harder to tell if a color is wrong.
Doing the color gradients is important too, but that's to make sure that you're not losing detail at the bright and dark ends of that color.
Good luck and keep trying! |
Post by theuns // Jul 3, 2008, 7:25pm
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theuns
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Hi Breech block, very nice fighter indeed and great detail on the cockpit textures :)
Could I ask how you did the exhaust flames, if you don't mind sharing? I always struggle with that kind of effect :) |
Post by Breech Block // Jul 5, 2008, 8:28am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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very nice fighter indeed and great detail on the cockpit textures. Could I ask how you did the exhaust flames, if you don't mind sharing? I always struggle with that kind of effect
Thanks for the comment theuns. As the textures are now animated (avi's), I will see if I can dig up the original jpeg's I used and then post a detailed explanation of how I turned them into the jet engine effect.
Monitor Calibration
As a final footnote to all the comments on this thread regarding monitor calibration, my main computer was tied up for several hours rendering a cloud formation test (the results of which I hope to post soon) and I was forced to power up my old computer in order to continue work on some new textures I was working on. It was quite shocking to realise that some of the carefully chosen greys were now showing as dirty browns. As a way of checking, I transferred some images to my son's laptop only to see the images look completely different again. It was then I decided to bite the bullet and buy a calibration device and was pleasantly surprised to find out it would only set me back £67. That's inclusive of UK taxes at 17.5% with shipping available completely free.
Setting up the scanner and installation of the software was a complete breeze (Vista users need an update from the company's website) and and running the calibration itself was nothing more than a few simple mouse clicks. The results were fairly impressive too. As mentioned on this thread previously, I invested several hours in tweaking my monitor in accordance with several on-line guides but none of them came as close to getting the picture I have now. Let me also state that if your work involves skin tones at all then in my opinion monitor calibration is an absolute must as that is where the difference is the most alarming. And the best part of all this is that now, every computer in the house is perfectly calibrated so I can transfer my work and happily not have to worry about how things will look when I transfer them back to my main workstation. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 5, 2008, 9:07am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Breech can you link the calibrator you bought? I've been thinking about going that direction as well.
Also make sure to test your work on stock monitors to see how the average user is going to see it as well. Unfortunately there is no perfect solution to the calibration issue if your work is going to be distributed to a wide variety of devices. :( But as you mention, working on a calibrated device is very important! ;) |
Post by Breech Block // Jul 5, 2008, 12:15pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Breech can you link the calibrator you bought? I've been thinking about going that direction as well
Well, I didn't post a link originally in case it was against any forum rules. However, if you think it's okay, just follow the link below:
Monitor Calibrator (http://shop.colourconfidence.com/product.php?xProd=1549&gclid=CPTG6rHfqZQCFQyvQwodZD-1uA) |
Post by Breech Block // Jul 5, 2008, 12:33pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Could I ask how you did the exhaust flames, if you don't mind sharing? I always struggle with that kind of effect :)
The jet thruster effect I use in all my animations is essentially created from just 2 avi files placed as textures onto a cone. One avi acts as the main effect whilst the other acts as a transparency mask. The length of the cone plays a key factor in the quality of the effect. Essentially, if it is too long it tends to look less realistic. You should experiment with the cones scaling until you get the desired effect. Please note that all the original orange flamed textures I created were deleted once I had transferred them to the avi format. However, a variation of the textures used to create a similar blue thruster have survived and are shown here. The basic principle is the same.
First create a new, square shaped texture at your preferred resolution and paint it with the darkest colour you wish to have in your flame effect (Fig 1). Choose a slightly lighter colour and paint a very rough, roundish square on top of your base texture. Ensure there is a distinct showing of the base texture all the way round (Fig 2). Choose a lighter colour again and paint another rough, roundish square inside the first but this time a lot closer to the edge (Fig 3). Repeat until you have a similar effect to Fig 4 and always end in off white. Inside the off-white border draw a shape with distinct, ragged edges (fig 5). Fill shape with Black ((RGB = 0,0,0) fig 6). Select the Motion Blur tool (PSP) or similar, select 0 degrees as the direction, 4 pixels as the intensity blur and save the texture (Fig 7). Use the undo tool and redo the blur only this time set the angle to 15 degrees (fig 8) and save as a different image. Repeat at 15 degrees angles up to 345 degrees. You should now have 24 separate images. Import all 24 texture files into an animation program and create a one second looping animation (avi) file. The next stage is to create a transparency mask for the texture. Depending on the sophistication of your animation program you can either create one from your original avi by changing the colour output values or simply convert your original 24 textures by using the greyscale command in your paint package (fig 9) and repeat the process of importing them to your animation package and creating another one second loop.
Apply the textures to the cone, attach the cone to the rear of your model and you should get a result similar to that shown in the video clip below. Please note that the test render shown in the film was created as part of a planned chase sequence and as such an additional texture created in a similar manner to that outlined above was placed on a sphere directly behind the cone to prevent the camera seeing inside the model. |
Post by nowherebrain // Jul 5, 2008, 1:30pm
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nowherebrain
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Excelent, very good work. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 5, 2008, 1:40pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Thanks Breech! I'd say this is very good info since it will help people with TrueSpace make better images.
Found a review of the product:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/spyder2express.html
(The review page also has links to calibration charts so could prove useful for those who can't afford a calibration product.)
And here's a US vendor selling it:
http://www.compuplus.com/i-Datacolor-Colorvision-S2E100-Spyder2express-Monitor-Calibration-1006682~.html?sid=fj609ukkdze10uw |
Post by Weevil // Jul 6, 2008, 3:27am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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And you can mark me down as 'Damn'. That's some mighty fine texturing you've got on that thing
(I love the SU-47 By the way) |
Post by theuns // Jul 8, 2008, 1:32am
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theuns
Total Posts: 519
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Thank you very much Breech Block, this is a very handy technique that I will most definately use. Although my designs are more still scenes, I do want to move into animation in the future.
Thanks for sharing :)
Theuns |
Post by Breech Block // Jul 8, 2008, 7:10pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Its been a while since I posted any updates on my Future Fighter project (mainly due to being off sick for a while), but as this thread has now just passed 2,000 views, I'd thought I'd mark the occasion with a new post. All my recent work has concentrated on tidying up the model and reducing the polygon count. I have also incorporated the new digital cockpit model and done some more work on the textures such as grunging up the exhausts and adding the plating effect. In addition, now that my monitor is calibrated, I have played about with the shader settings to bring it more in line with my original concept. There are still a couple of areas that could do with some more work but I will wait untill I have rendered an animated test flight to see if they show up before spending any more time on it. On the animation side, I'm still struggling to create a real good flyby; mainly because creating the illusion of speed and vast open space is proving to be quite problematic. So far I seem to able to get either one or the other. But not both. Next up on the modeling side will be a nice big juicy target so the FF can unleash its full wrath. Keep watching. |
Post by Dragneye // Jul 8, 2008, 7:23pm
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Dragneye
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Not bad at all Breech!
As for targets, hmmm.... wanna splatter a mean dragon? :-D |
Post by kena // Jul 8, 2008, 7:37pm
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kena
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very well done!! I think you have it down pat. At least for me. Although I'm not a plane fanatic. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 8, 2008, 7:42pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Looks good! Nice quality of color and contrast in the images too. :banana: |
Post by Breech Block // Jul 10, 2008, 9:46am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the kind comments and the time out you took to post them.
Looks good! Nice quality of color and contrast in the images too. :banana:
Thanks Jack, I guess that monitor calibrator is starting to pay dividends already. |
Post by Breech Block // Jul 21, 2008, 3:08pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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This is going to be one of the FF's secondary targets, a small Command Post that is co-ordinating the AA defences around the main objective. Hopefully, I will be able to add some camouflage nets and have 1 or 2 figures dotted about. Any further suggestions for improving the scene are most welcome. |
Post by Breech Block // Jul 26, 2008, 7:11pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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This is the scene about halfway done. Now that I have worked out how to put the camouflage nets in, I will place some more over the bunker. I'm not entirely sure about the concrete texture and thought I'd best post an image now before it becomes too covered to see it clearly. The reason being, I'm undecided as to whether to give the bunker a facelift and make it look like it was built more recently. I also really seemed to struggle with the lighting on this (my least favourite part of 3D). I want shadows to fall across the sand dunes as this helps show the terrain better, but being in the desert the sun is fairly strong and it tends to wash most of the shadows out. At the moment its the best I can get it.
As always, all comments most welcome. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 26, 2008, 7:38pm
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W!ZARD
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Coming along nicely BB - re lighting you could try using one of the existing lighting set-ups in the light library supplied with tS - find the one that's closest to what you want and start tweaking it from there. This will give you a good base to start with and as you adjust various parameters you'll soon find yourself becoming much more comfortable with lighting.
HTH |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 26, 2008, 7:51pm
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Jack Edwards
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The textures and colors really add punch to this scene Breech. I'm already liking it. :cool:
The sun is best represented by a shadow casting infinite light. If you're using a render engine with GI, then that would be the only light you would need. It's a bit more complicated for Lightworks since you'd need to add other lights to simulate the bounced light off the terain... HDRI might be your best bet for getting a nice outdoor lighting setup for Lightworks. |
Post by rjeff // Jul 27, 2008, 2:07am
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I think the bunker looks good. I see no reason to tweak it any..maybe the lighting as you have pionted out. When you lay the nets down.you should use the cloth motion and see if they helps them out any. |
Post by TomG // Jul 27, 2008, 7:03am
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Looks nice! Its great to see these separate components develop, then have the anticipation of waiting to see them brought together for the finished thing :)
Thanks!
Tom |
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