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Future Fighter
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Future Fighter // Work in Progress
Post by Breech Block // Jul 28, 2008, 1:49pm
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Breech Block
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Coming along nicely BB - re lighting you could try using one of the existing lighting set-ups in the light library supplied with tS - find the one that's closest to what you want and start tweaking it from there. This will give you a good base to start with and as you adjust various parameters you'll soon find yourself becoming much more comfortable with lighting.
HTH
Thanks very much Wizard. For anybody else reading this thread who is also not quite up to speed on lighting, I must agree that Wizard's tip is indeed the best way to start lighting a scene and is in fact how I managed to achieve what I did. I think my trouble may be that I don't know what I want, only what I don't want. That said, I took your advice to heart Wizard and hid all the objects in my scene bar the 2 background planes and 2 ground models, threw in a couple of cubes and then set about making minor adjustments to all the various light settings to see what effect they had. It's quite amazing that even the slightest alteration can make a significant change.
The textures and colors really add punch to this scene Breech. I'm already liking it.
The sun is best represented by a shadow casting infinite light. If you're using a render engine with GI, then that would be the only light you would need. It's a bit more complicated for Lightworks since you'd need to add other lights to simulate the bounced light off the terain... HDRI might be your best bet for getting a nice outdoor lighting setup for Lightworks.
Cheers Jack. In fact, your comment about adding other lights to the scene to simulate light bouncing off the terrain helped me to realise that those lights were in fact causing a problem as they had a bluish hue to them which was altering the colour of the sand.
I think the bunker looks good. I see no reason to tweak it any..maybe the lighting as you have pionted out. When you lay the nets down.you should use the cloth motion and see if they helps them out any.
Thanks rjeff, I think you have swayed me on the bunker's texture. Great idea about the cloth tool too.
Looks nice! Its great to see these separate components develop, then have the anticipation of waiting to see them brought together for the finished thing.
Thanks Tom, I really appreciate that. In fact that's an interesting point and I have never thought about this thread from that point of view before. So, no pressure then. :D |
Post by Heidi // Jul 28, 2008, 3:11pm
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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You have a huge amount of detail on both your fighter and your command station. They look great! :)
Are you going to do any animation with the fighter? |
Post by Breech Block // Jul 29, 2008, 1:42pm
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Breech Block
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Thanks very much Heidi. After seeing your sail boat model that's high praise indeed. To answer your question, yes, what you have seen on this thread so far are the props and sets which are being constructed in preparation for a 3 1/2 min movie. The reason I have not shown any animation to date is that I'm still battling with trying to capture the illusion of flight; i.e. fast motion set in a huge area of open space. That said, I have been working on a short test video and am hoping to post it sometime this coming weekend with a view to getting some feedback too see if I'm on the right track. |
Post by Heidi // Jul 29, 2008, 1:48pm
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Heidi
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Cool!... I'll keep an eye out for your video. :) |
Post by remnar // Jul 29, 2008, 3:20pm
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remnar
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The jet is really excellent in design and texturing. I like how you modeled this with what looks to have a low poly count. |
Post by Breech Block // Jul 30, 2008, 4:57am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Thanks very much for your comment remnar. It's great to receive feedback on the project as it really helps in pushing me to get it completed. With regard the low poly design, that was a major factor from the start as I knew some of the scenes were going to be very complicated and involve multiple aircraft and lots of particle generators. I'm glad you like the design and if you keep an eye out I should be posting a short video clip of the model in flight in a day or two. |
Post by Breech Block // Jul 30, 2008, 3:22pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Following on from some of the advice given earlier in this thread about light settings, I have been experimenting with various different configurations for my Command Post scene. Having spent many hours tinkering about and performing countless renders, I thought I'd post the best of the bunch for comments.
In addition, whilst I admit the variations are subtle, I'm not entirely certain of the results. Are these pictures a case of:
a) Your getting there, but keep trying.
b) Oh yes, I like that one.
c) None of the above.
I'm also wondering if my uncertainty may be centred around the fact that whilst one image may look more realistic, it doesn't necessarily make it more cinematic.
I realise that lighting is a vast and highly technical subject, but any pointers, comments or suggestions on the matter would be greatly appreciated.
PS: The camouflage texture is different in image 2 and its appearence is not related to the change of lighting. |
Post by Heidi // Jul 30, 2008, 3:44pm
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Heidi
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I like image 3 :)
That one has the greatest feeling of depth to it for me. There's even a feeling of depth to the sky without over doing the contrast in the rest of the image. |
Post by Nez // Jul 30, 2008, 10:00pm
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Personally I prefer the fourth - the light's just a bit 'harsher' which seems appropriate for the environment. I'd say the first is the least satisfactory in terms of the quality of the shadows... the second and fourth are a bit brighter/harsher whilst the third is a shade 'warmer'. I guess there's a degree of personal preference... |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 30, 2008, 10:08pm
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Jack Edwards
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I like three because of the more subdued colors. It feels more real and less neon. But Nez's point about the lighting is something to consider. A dessert environment would be harshly lit. Might want to compare with some reference photos. |
Post by Wigand // Jul 31, 2008, 5:07am
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Wigand
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I prefer 4. But for this kind of weather it is still to dark.
3 looks like some dust over the near objects, the far mountains are clear, so it is unbelievable.
One problem with light is, I think you have the sun in your back, so objects are flat, can not see the shadows. Try to use an other angle, maybe from the right side from the front, (sun still outside the picture) |
Post by Ambrose // Jul 31, 2008, 6:45am
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Ambrose
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Image 3
It has more to tell some mystery unknown fait...
Keep up all the good work!
SeYa/Ambrose... |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 1, 2008, 3:42am
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W!ZARD
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For my taste the foreground sand looks too yellowy and the sky does not look sufficiently desert-like. The air is too clear, desert air is usually full of fine dust.
If you are using LW it has a built in fog option which may help to add 'atmosphere'. Another option would be to use simple volumetric lighting to simulate dusty air.
A third option would be to put in a large plane behind your mountains but covering the sky and use an alpha-mapped gradient to suggest hazy air at lower altitudes.
Finally, it can be very useful to copy your scene and paint all objects with the default material shader so everything is that light grey colour. Use this scene to design your lighting and atmospherics - fog, volumetrics, alpha planes. This will allow you to concentrate on how the scene is affected by the colour of the light(s), shadows and atmosphere effects.
Once you have a light and atmo you feel happy with (the area render tool is your friend during this process - ie do your test renders on small areas to speed the process. The area render tool lets you render a small area, adjust your light and fod settings and render an adjacent area so you can compare the effects of your adjustments ) save the lights and use them to replace the lighting in your textured scene. Now you can tell easily if any of the textures need further work.
It might sound a bit laborious but it can make or break your picture and as you learn you'll find it's quite good fun - like painting with light.
HTH
WZRD |
Post by Breech Block // Aug 2, 2008, 5:27am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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A big thank you to all those folk who took the time to view my work and post comments; some really smart observations and great tips in there. It's interesting to note that even amongst the many experienced users, opinion as to which was the best image was still divided. As for which light settings I will choose, alas I am still undecided. For now, I will just save each set-up, build a few more scenes and see if the textures in those scenes influence my choice. Concurrent with that, I will implement Wizards suggestion and try some lighting with the scenes painted in the default shader.
Thanks again to all those who have offered their advice\tips\comments on this project as my knowledge and understanding is really starting to grow now and as such its really helping me to raise the bar on this one. |
Post by Breech Block // Aug 3, 2008, 9:35am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Looks nice! Its great to see these separate components develop, then have the anticipation of waiting to see them brought together for the finished thing
Well Tom, this will either whet your appetite or be a bit of an anti-climax. I'm not sure which.
This is a test render of the opening (establishment) shot of my Future Fighter animation. The only thing I am currently thinking of adding are vapour trails coming off the wings. But, as this will be a big hit computational wise, I thought I'd post it as is and see if any comments highlight the need for any additional changes before the final render.
Please take the time to download the file and play it in Windows Media Player so as to view the video at its intended widescreen resoloution.
Many thanks; and as always, all comments welcome. |
Post by rjeff // Aug 3, 2008, 9:41am
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nice work..how did you do jet through the clouds? |
Post by Breech Block // Aug 3, 2008, 1:49pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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nice work..how did you do jet through the clouds?
By briefing the pilot very carefully. :D |
Post by Heidi // Aug 3, 2008, 2:24pm
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Heidi
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Very cool! :)
The only criticism I have is that he seems to tip his wings too quickly for his supposed speed and weight. He also seems to pivot (yaw?) on one of his wing dips, but that may be the camera angle.
I'd steady him out a bit to give a more substantial feel to him.
Bear in mind, I'm no pilot. :) |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 3, 2008, 3:16pm
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W!ZARD
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Very nice! I remember the good ole days when I was continually downloading still images from these forums - now I'm DLing anims instead.
This is nice work - did you put those clouds on alpha planes? If so it works well. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Aug 3, 2008, 4:09pm
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Nice work Breech! Only crit I have is about going through the clouds, wouldn't it create swirls/holes/trails in the cloud? |
Post by TomG // Aug 4, 2008, 4:18am
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TomG
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Looks good! Appetite whetted!
Tom |
Post by Breech Block // Aug 7, 2008, 12:12pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Firstly, I cant help but echo Wizard's comment on his “First 7.6 Animation“ thread about the somewhat disappointing lack of response. I dunno, you pour your heart and soul into getting every pixel just right and....
Well, suffice to say, you think that a thread that has garnered over 4,000 views to date would attract a few more comments. In fact, I calculated the ratio of views to comments (hey, what can I say, I got bored whilst waiting for my SMC entry to render) and it worked out as a mere 76 to 1.
So again, a big, big thankyou to all those who took the time to post their views. Your effort and comments are really appreciated.
@ Wizard: This is nice work - did you put those clouds on alpha planes? If so it works well.
@ rjeff: nice work..how did you do jet through the clouds?
Well, there is no fooling you is there Wizard. Yes, essentially this scene has been created using an extensive set of alpha planes. After hours of experimentation with Sky Domes and model clouds, I came to realise that this would be the most effective method for this particular shot. The scene itself is quite complex as all the planes, including the ones used for the ground and the additional gradient planes that haze the horizon and cloud joints, constantly move in relation to the camera track.
I hope that that answers your point as well rjeff.
@ Heidi: The only criticism I have is that he seems to tip his wings too quickly for his supposed speed and weight. He also seems to pivot (yaw?) on one of his wing dips, but that may be the camera angle.
I can see your point of view Heidi, but personally, I think the aircraft's wing movements are quite realistic both for their design and based on my own observations having worked with aircraft for most of my adult life. Believe it or not, modern combat aircraft are highly unstable by design (and thus highly agile) and would in fact fall out of the sky if it were not for the onboard computer altering the airframe's control surfaces 100s of times a second; a technique referred to as “fly by wire.”
As for the pivot movement, the model is following a spline path, so I shall check through all the keyframes and make sure that the “Look Ahead” command has not come undone somewhere along the line.
@ Jack Edwards: Nice work Breech! Only crit I have is about going through the clouds, wouldn't it create swirls/holes/trails in the cloud?
Yes, your quite right Jack, each wing creates a constant vortex of spiralling air that becomes visible when passing through vapour or smoke (see image below). And, I must admit it would be pretty cool to show that although I've no idea how it could be done. I'll certainly give it some thought though.
@ TomG: Looks good! Appetite whetted!
Phew, thanks Tom. |
Post by TomG // Aug 7, 2008, 2:04pm
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TomG
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I wouldn't worry much about lack of comments - the internet is an odd place (perhaps its just people in general rather than the internet). You'll find a very small percentage of people are inclined to jump in with a comment, even though they may be enjoying what they are seeing. So the lack of comments doesn't mean your work is not being viewed and appreciated :)
So don't lose heart!
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by Davin // Aug 7, 2008, 9:50pm
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Davin
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Looks very well done.
For the swirly clouds, you could setup an animated plane to trigger when the jet goes through the cloud. Not sure if there is a better way to do it, and since you are already using planes I don't think it would work to badly (any way a test wouldn't hurt).
The ground looks funny, I mean it looks good, but with all the cloud coverage, there are no shadows. I have seen that before in real life, and even in real life it looks odd, so no big deal.
Edit:
Also the clouds the jet goes through look stingy compared to the background clouds. Might want to use the constant reflectance shader. |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 8, 2008, 6:45pm
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W!ZARD
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"Well, there is no fooling you is there Wizard."Lol - I'm not that clever BB. I may have figured out how you did it but I'm damned if I can figure out how to do it myself!:D. After a good 8 hours of making cloud images and masks using Vue I was still not able to get my clouds looking half as believable as yours!! This is leading me to suspect that the reason you're not getting more comments is sheer old fashioned professional jealousy!!;)
Any tips you may have discovered with getting good alpha clouds would be most appreciated. |
Post by Davin // Aug 8, 2008, 8:56pm
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Davin
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I am no professional, but I am jealous of the skill/knowledge. |
Post by skipper // Aug 8, 2008, 11:34pm
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Well, suffice to say, you think that a thread that has garnered over 4,000 views to date would attract a few more comments. In fact, I calculated the ratio of views to comments (hey, what can I say, I got bored whilst waiting for my SMC entry to render) and it worked out as a mere 76 to 1.
You know the time you took to calculate that ratio would have been put to better use by yourself by posting well deserved comments to other people's work in other threads. :D
The point I'm trying to make is, life's short, there's so much to do, so little time. We don't have enough hours in the day to post comments, kudos and criticism to everything and everywhere it is required.
Rest assured, you are not alone. We appreciate every single polygon and pixel that went into the production of your and everyone else's work. :cool:
If anything, view counts tell you that you are doing something right.
And the time it took for me to post this message (spell check and grammar check included) I could have easily put to better use by learning more about tS because I'm nowhere near that level of proficiency as most of the people who post in this forum. Just like the meteorologists could use the time they take to pick hurricane names to learn more about the weather. :D
So don't let a lack of comments get to you. Before I forget, excellent job, I love the texture and I'm such a noob, I didn't even notice the beauty of these clouds. I thought they were added in post production. Keep up the good work! :) |
Post by RAYMAN // Aug 9, 2008, 12:32am
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RAYMAN
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Breech block I find you work fantastic .... I sometimes chime in with
a comment sometimes I dont but that has more to do with something
related to our own knowledge.Its easier to give some advice when
you think there is room for improvement but when you see something realy good its hard to say something other then I like it.
This i like very much !
Peter |
Post by Breech Block // Aug 9, 2008, 8:29am
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Breech Block
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@TomG & Skipper – Thanks Tom, thanks Skipper. I guess in hindsight, I should have either used a few more smiley icons in my post or chosen my words more carefully as having re-read my earlier post it it does sound like I'm either underconfident about my work or seeking some kind of reassurance; neither of which could be more further from the truth. :o
The observation/point I was trying to make was more about the sense of lost opportunity. In other words, how much more knowledgeable would I be if I had managed to pick the brains of all the viewers of this thread. Kinda selfish I guess.
In addition, your points are well noted Skipper, especially as its going to take me the best part of an hour to respond to all these recent posts, and yes I agree it is sometimes quite hard to say more than “Ohh, nice work.” However, on the frequent occasions where I have offered critique on another “artists” work, I have discovered that my own knowledge also expands. This comes partly through observing\analysing someone else's work more closely before commenting and partly from the “artists” response as they indicate why\how they did that or what technique was involved. So again, trying to promote\provoke more feedback on this thread was also an attempt at trying to get more people involved and thus helping to increase their own knowledge. I guess I should stick to pictures rather than words. :D
@ Davin – Thanks for your comments and suggestions; I never noticed the lack of shadows on the ground before. Also, I'll try a few swirly tests and if I get some good results post an update. As for being jealous of the skills\knowledge – don't be. This project is only my third ever animation and you could catch up with me in a thrice. You would be surprised at just how much you learn by taking on such projects and trying different ways to resolve the problems will you will come across. I have also found that entering the Speed Model Challenge is a really fun and challenging way of increasing your skills. My modelling skills are poor at best but I'm really pleased with my Thunderbird 4 entry in the boat competition. This is only the third time I've entered, but I can already see my level of sophistication is improving.
@ W!zard - “I'm not that clever BB.” Wizards, not clever! Ha, I don't believe that for a second. As for my clouds, it must be beginners luck as this is my first attempt. I've always used sky domes in the past. I will try and post a breakdown later-on today.
@ Rayman. Wow! Peter, what can I say. I have long been a great admirer of your work and find your images really inspirational. Your comments means a great deal to me. Thanks again. |
Post by Heidi // Aug 9, 2008, 8:53am
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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Believe it or not, modern combat aircraft are highly unstable by design (and thus highly agile) and would in fact fall out of the sky if it were not for the onboard computer altering the airframe's control surfaces 100s of times a second; a technique referred to as “fly by wire.”
What I know about flying aircraft you could put in a gnat's eye. My horse occasionally decides I need a flying lesson though. That's referred to as a "rodeo". :D
What's the next stage? Are you going to add sound effects? |
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