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April (& May) MMC - character
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
April (& May) MMC - character // Work in Progress
Post by Nez // May 14, 2008, 5:46am
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Nez
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Well, I had high hopes for this and had intended to try something organic for a change, but was somewhat uninspired.
I eventually got round to trying an alien of some sort but he didn't really turn out the way I'd hoped. Some parts were OK - I quite like the head, but it gets gradually worse from there on down, with the arms being totally rubbish.
Wireframe and test render below - NB the render is without any 'proper' materials asigned and just an IBL for lighting, nothing approaching final, just to show the sub-div really.
Due to general disappointent with this, I decided to try something else - see next post. NB - I'm happy to recieve suggestions on how to help this caracter along, but the main problem is my novice level at subdivision, especially for organic forms. Something notionally simple like the transition from a leg to a foot without creases etc just seems beyond me at the moment! |
Post by Nez // May 14, 2008, 5:53am
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Nez
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I then had a moment of inspiration (rare for me!) looking at a book with my kids - it showed this cool double-spouted watering can which had a real face-like look to me. I thought the nozzles would make great eyes for a robot character, so that's where I started.
I've made a few more bits and the head is about done (probably) - just got the whole of the rest of the body to go...:rolleyes: Did a render with some sample materials lighting, but that will still need some work ('teeth' don't show well enough for starters). However people always tell me to leave the materials etc till later, so I'm going to carry on with the modelling before I get too into that (well, I'll try...) Other inspiration sinclude the 'Robots' animated film, plus I expect I'll dig out some star-wars photos and I-robot pics for further reference - though I'm planning to base the arms on my LCD monitor mounts at my office...
Quite like him so far - possible names are Junkbot or Bitzbot at the moment....
suggestions welcomed as always.... |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 14, 2008, 6:31am
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Jack Edwards
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I like both of them Nez! I think you should turn the first one into a robot as well, then you can have two robots for your scene. :D |
Post by Breech Block // May 14, 2008, 8:38am
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Breech Block
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Wow, what a great design. Before I even read the text my mind immediately leapt to the Robots film, even though I've only ever seen a few trailers for it. So I think the fact your image was able to instantaneously make that connection is a great credit to your work and the attention to the detail. My only suggestion for the body is to resist the attention to grab up the nearest Star Wars book (advice that I can never quite follow myself) and perhaps look more along the lines of lawnmowers\agricultural equipment\garden ware. If the original design was influenced by a watering can, I feel it could be critical to the overall characters success that that influence carries on through the rest of the design. I'm really looking forward to seeing how you progress with this one. |
Post by Nez // May 14, 2008, 10:14pm
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Nez
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I like both of them Nez! I think you should turn the first one into a robot as well, then you can have two robots for your scene. :D
heh, thanks Jack; hadn't considered turing the critter robotic, will have to think about that, but he'll probably stay on hold for the moment as I doubt I'll have time to work up 2 characters adequately. I have a scene in mind for the robot which doesn't benefit from a second character - it's specifically a solitary thing - but that may not come to fruition in time anyway....
Breech Block - thanks for the comments, pleased to note you're thinking along my lines. I hadn't specifically envisaged him/it as exclsuively made of agricultaral parts, but certainly of 'junk' or discarded machinery/metal etc. Robots was a bit of an influence - one of the characters has a dishwasher built into it's chest and I quite like that idea of a combination of 'made parts' (e.g arms) with entire chunks of machinery...though I'll have to see how it pans out as the poly count is rising fast and my pc isn't that hot... almost certainly shouldn't be all shiny, probably needs to be grimy and battered (better give MadMouse a call...)
You'll be glad to hear I don't intend to produce anything overtly star-wars looking - I only meant that I'd have a skim through some of the droid pictures etc to get a bit of a fell for how they've dealt with things like joints, fingers, that kind of thing, plus pictures of the early C3-PO (pre-plating) are quite good for a junky crude look, so might be useful for some general ideas.
NB - I heartily recommend watching Robots if you get a chance - in my mind it's quite under-rated but there's some really nice CG in it and some great action sequences which are quite inspired (the cross-town transport sequnce is absolutely brilliant!)
Thanks for your feedback guys... |
Post by Dragneye // May 16, 2008, 8:28pm
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Dragneye
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Nice idea Nez. After goin through a bunch of trial names (Junkobot, Partsbot, Tincanman, etc) I came up with Steemer. The 'head' boils, and his top spins and whistles and spews steam :) Though you should name him in reference to whatever his main part will be. Just a thought.
Lookin forward to yours also. |
Post by Nez // May 19, 2008, 3:15am
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Nez
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Nice ideas Dragneye - guess I'll see how he turns out first - not sure what his main part will be, if any, as yet...
was thinking about using an old fashioned garden roller in place of legs (maybe with some pre-school bike 'stabiliser' wheels to keep him from falling over, or perhaps without, relying on some kind of gyro to keep him up? like a crazy unicycilst?) Any opinions? It would save me building conventional legs anyway!
Have managed to get some work done on a torso and arm over the weekend - I've applied some simple shaders (can't help myself!) to remind me of which bits should be diffent materials. I'm quite tempted to make him all shiny as that is easy to do and gives a nice final finish, but I was originally planning a more beat up look which will be a lot more work but hopefully worth it. Given that I probably won't have access to my PC next week, I may aim to finish the modelling and a shiny version in the short term and then spend some time making him grubby/scuffed etc as a subsequent effort... we'll see...
Arm is mostly based on the 'wishbone' LCD monitor support arms we use in my office space as a starting point; hand uses simple primitives for digits with a SDS object for the palm. With a bit of patience, it's possible to reposition most of the parts so I can have a variety of hand shapes and arm positions, but I have no intention of animating...
Main part of torso is just a polygon swept about a bit and subdivided, grill is just flattened cylinders. Mid section is supposed to look vaguely engine-like - quite like my exhaust-pipe ribs... |
Post by 3dfrog // May 19, 2008, 4:35am
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3dfrog
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looking fantasic. Can't wait too see it finished. That is some nice robot arm! |
Post by Breech Block // May 19, 2008, 8:45am
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Breech Block
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As individual pieces of modelling I think both items are very impressive, especially the arm which has some great detailing. That said, I'm not sure the arm suits its purpose as the elbow joint would not allow sufficient movement for it to be practical (assuming the arm is going to be placed as per my illustration). Would love to see a shot of the head and torso together. |
Post by Nez // May 19, 2008, 9:59pm
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Nez
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You have got the arm the right way round. Lateral movement will be possible - but only through achieving some rotation at the shoulder joint (and wrist). In fairness, the human elbow cannot truly move as you have shown either - it uses a degree of rotation in the shoulder/upper arm too... the knees is similar - they're both basically one-axis rotation joints, in a simplistic sense.
But it's a good point - depending on the final pose, might require a bit of effort to position. Assuming I get that far! |
Post by Georg // May 20, 2008, 3:10am
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Georg
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If you keep your arm stretched the movements you can make with it are governed by the shoulder joint. The round head of the humerus, the bone in the upper arm, allows for a wide radial movement, only limited by how far you can stretch your muscles and tendons and the body being in the way. The movement of the lower arm is a simple unidirectional one, from stretched position to one where you can touch your shoulder with your hand. In addition to the larger ulna bone whose attachment to the humerus allows for this simple movement there is a smaller radius bone that turns around the ulna and make the hand twist almost 180 degrees. So to give your robot arm at least the same flexibility you should change the elbow joint, or construct a new type of joint where the hand is connected to the lower arm and that allows for both radial and lateral movement, second option is probably easier I would say.
Your robot is coming along very nicely, Nez, I also liked your initial threefeeter!
Georg |
Post by Nez // May 21, 2008, 5:30am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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If you keep your arm stretched the movements you can make with it are governed by the shoulder joint. The round head of the humerus, the bone in the upper arm, allows for a wide radial movement, only limited by how far you can stretch your muscles and tendons and the body being in the way. The movement of the lower arm is a simple unidirectional one, from stretched position to one where you can touch your shoulder with your hand.
That's what I was trying to say - the elbow only really works in one rotational axis, as in my model, with the greater mobuility in the shoulder, which isn't currently complete. In fairness, I realise that the shoulder needs a tweak anyway as I'd made a slight error on the part on the torso - I'll probably put a spherical joint in here which is more realistic anyway....
In addition to the larger ulna bone whose attachment to the humerus allows for this simple movement there is a smaller radius bone that turns around the ulna and make the hand twist almost 180 degrees. So to give your robot arm at least the same flexibility you should change the elbow joint, or construct a new type of joint where the hand is connected to the lower arm and that allows for both radial and lateral movement, second option is probably easier I would say.
Think my physiology is struggling to follow exactly but I think I get your point - the wrist rotation (in the twist direction) doesn't really happen at the wrist, it happens along the whole forearm from the elbow down. There's then a second axis of movement (palm up/down) that happens at the wrist itself. The robot arm achieves both movements, but only at the wrist.
In fairness, human motion etc is very complex - but I never set out to specifically replicate all the nuances of a human arm - this is a robot for starters and a vaguely 'cartoon' one at that and I don't intend to animate or come up with complex poses. The arm is specifically based on a particular piece of office furniture, which is appropriate for the 'junk-bot' concept, so in this instance modifiying the joints wouldn't really be in keeping, though I will do something with the shoulder to free things up a bit, but total freedome of movement may be a restricted a litlle.
The feedback is apprecaited though! As I'm on leave next week and probably won't have the opportunity to do much more or post much more, I may not get any further before the deadline - we'll have to see... |
Post by Nez // May 21, 2008, 5:36am
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Nez
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NB - see image below... range of lateral pivot could be improved, but I don't really have the time to play with it for now... |
Post by W!ZARD // May 21, 2008, 9:14am
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W!ZARD
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Very cool bot Nez - I love the retro design. |
Post by Nez // May 22, 2008, 3:16am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Cheers W!zard!
Here's the mk1 lower body - at some point he may get an upgrade to legs! In the meantime, he's starting off low-tech, with a traction engine style steam roller wheel, plus a stabilising wheel to the rear... thought about sticking with just the big single wheel and making him rely on some sort of gyro or crazy unicylist, but thought he's supposed to be quite crude, so thought he'd better have something to stop him just tipping over.
Materials etc aren't necessarily final, just roughly in keeping with last few shots, to differentiate different materials on model - plus I can't help myself - like to do test shots as I go with preset lighting etc.
Now I've got to stick him all together and sort his shoulders out, and a shiny version will be basically done. Then I need to get on and rough him up... may not happen for the end of the month. Haven't sorted a setting either, though I have some in mind - but I doubt they'll be done for a while. Actually I have a couple of ideas for further development of this chap, quite looking forward to that over the next few months maybe. |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 22, 2008, 5:00am
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Jack Edwards
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Nice work Nez! :jumpy: |
Post by Georg // May 22, 2008, 5:13am
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Georg
Total Posts: 270
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The steam roller wheel is very funny! I have to think about your wrist, you could also make a similar structure with the black cylinder at the elbow side and then every movement is possible.
Looking forward to the rest of this Steam Roll Willy, it will be a great character.
Georg |
Post by Breech Block // May 22, 2008, 2:29pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Looking good Nez. Again, the attention to detail on the model is just fantastic. Looking forward to seeing all the parts come together. |
Post by Nez // May 29, 2008, 3:02am
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Nez
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Thanks for the kind comments guys - I admit, I've had more fun than I expected on this once I had an idea I liked. Having never tried anything like this, it's been interesting to say the least!
I had originally intended to do legs (and may still do so at some point) but the roller looked to be quicker in the short term, so that's how he's developed for now.
I've done a few shiny renders but am not going to be able to get round to a grunged up version for a little while but hopefully it will happen in time. Really need to get into UV mapping to do a good job of that so it may be some time... also have a few ideas for proper scenes for him to appear in, but that will also have to wait for now - but I have to say I'm enjoying feeling so inspired to take him forward so hopefully it will happen at some point.
NB the renders are far from great as they were a bit under-lit. As I diodn't have time to re-render, I've massaged the result slightly in photoshop for the sake of something to post! Probably won't make it back online till next week now... |
Post by kena // May 29, 2008, 4:53am
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kena
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Nicely rendered. Shiney and new... ready to roll! |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 29, 2008, 6:10am
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Jack Edwards
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This is portfolio quality work Nez! Can't wait to see him UV mapped, textured, and in a scene. :jumpy: |
Post by Norm // May 29, 2008, 6:14am
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Norm
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I agree is excellent work Nez. No doubt you had fun with this one, it shows :) |
Post by 3dfrog // May 29, 2008, 6:42am
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3dfrog
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Muy Bien! I like this a lot. |
Post by Nez // May 29, 2008, 6:49am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Many thanks for all your kind words!
I have indeed had some fun with this and do hope to find some time to make him a bit less shiny! But I need to take some Madmouse lessons first methinks (if you're reading MM, could you send a link to the thread where you textured your old mech? it will take me a while to find...) Could be quite a big job...
Thanks for all the support, means a lot to me!:o:D |
Post by Steinie // May 29, 2008, 6:59am
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Steinie
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His first Mech:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=546
His Devil Mech:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=2226
Nice work Nez! |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 1, 2008, 2:05pm
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Dragneye
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Great job on this. The parts came together very well. Personally, I like the 'straight out of the factory' look. Nowadays, everything industrial is always portrayed as grimey and used. Like kena said... he Does look like he's "ready to roll" - So, will there be any steam belching? :-) |
Post by MadMouse // Jun 1, 2008, 9:55pm
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Sorry I haven't answered before now Nez, I only just read your post. Steinie beat me to the links (thanks Bob).
But I need to take some Madmouse lessons first methinks If I can do anything to help just give me a shout.
Great looking bot BTW. Wouldn't look out of place in the CGI film Robots.
ATB
Steve |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 1, 2008, 10:35pm
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W!ZARD
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Nez - I'm surprised you and MadMouse haven't yet created a Kent branch of the Caligari community - you guys must live reasonably close - Kent is just not that big!
Re your robot - Nez, you have a great knack when it comes to original and slightly odd design - this robot rocks and I can just see him trundling around the hanger servicing that cool plane you made recently - top wok, I like it! |
Post by MadMouse // Jun 1, 2008, 10:46pm
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I'm surprised you and MadMouse haven't yet created a Kent branch of the Caligari community - you guys must live reasonably close - Kent is just not that big! That would be because I hadnt noticed that Nez was a Kentish lad like me!
Which part you from Nez???? I'm in Faversham. |
Post by Nez // Jun 1, 2008, 11:20pm
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Nez
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Actually, I'm not that far away, in Rainham!
Was born just up the road in Gillingham and have been in the area pretty much ever since, bar a spell away for Uni. I guess you maybe know already that W!zard spent a spell over here too and is familiar with Medway as well...
Talk about small world! It's one of the things I find most amusing about these international communities - that and the way people of all ages and abilities mix freely :D |
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