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Look at my hairy Jackson!!!
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Look at my hairy Jackson!!! // Image Gallery
Post by spacekdet // May 25, 2007, 9:46am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Wow, that forum admin over there sounds like a real ...piece of work. End of Story. |
Post by MadMouse // May 25, 2007, 11:35am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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I cant believe that last post in the link that transient posted....
We will not have a Truespace forum here. End of story.
How very open minded:mad: I wonder if leigh likes black people, homosexuals or the Jewish posting at CG Society:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Well I was already annoyed at my render being disallowed but that seals it for me. I'm off to empty my portfolio and delete a few bookmarks:mad:
I recommend just cropping your Jackson pic so that the neck extends beyond the edge of the frame
Did you try creating a WIP in progress thread
I appreciate the suggestions guys but if my 'art' is not up to their standards then there is no way I'm about to bastardise it just to gain acceptance to a web site that obviously looks down its nose at us trueSpacers.
Basically they can go Phong themselves:mad:
Anyone got any recommendations for other more open-minded places to post your work?
I've not given up on the idea of spreading the good word of TS, just CG society. |
Post by trueBlue // May 25, 2007, 11:52am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Basically they can go Phong themselves:mad:
Sorry but I can not stop laughing.
Good for you Madmouse!
Would be sad that their community does not see what has transpired here.
Could be just one bad Very Bad apple here. |
Post by transient // May 25, 2007, 12:32pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I didn't think posting that link would cause you stress madmouse - maybe it was a bad idea. I personally wouldn't boycott the entire site because of some childish behaviour on their part.
FYI the mod who locked the thread is a published LW author.
Maybe you could start posting our stuff in the wings forum there (a bona-fide industry favourite lol). |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 25, 2007, 12:35pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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LOL good one madmouse! :D
Actually I felt the posts were fairly neutral considering, and I agree that TS doesn't need a forum there. This forum is much more active for TS specific stuff.
There's always the 3D Total forums. That's where we ripped off the speed challenge idea from. ;)
http://www.threedy.com/site/forum/index.php
-Jack. |
Post by Morgan // May 25, 2007, 12:38pm
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Morgan
Total Posts: 138
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I personally wouldn't boycott the entire site because of some childish behaviour on their part.
I would, personally, but then, I'm someone who is very short on patience for nonsense like that. Disallowing a head sculpt because it stops short of the neck seems silly and pointless to me. It's dictating the nature of the art, and that's not a game I'd want to get involved in. It makes no more sense than saying "We don't allow car sculpts unless they're red".
And the snobbery against trueSpace... even if I didn't use trueSpace, that'd turn me off from the forum. Can anyone picture picture a carpenter's convention that wouldn't allow people who used, say, Craftsman tools? Or an art gallery that discriminated based on what brand of canvas you used? It's ridiculous. |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 25, 2007, 12:43pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Actually don't all carpenters use DeWalt? ;)
Rich would have the answer for us on that one. :D Was interesting reading his posts and opinions about 7.0 on CGTalk.
-Jack. |
Post by Matski007 // May 25, 2007, 1:10pm
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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hmmm, I pay for subscription to CGtalk, hoping to buy some of their books. In the past ive had a lot of images accepted and some have been rejected. I think maybe it is considered as WIP because you already have an image in the gallery of the head with a small bit of body too and its more of a 'Scene'. Also your image is the 3rd in a line of the same thing, each time changes have been made, therefor they may have deemed it as a WIP, I would suggest making a render that utilises a background and also hiding the edges of the neck with some kind of clothing. These moderators presumably have to crunch through quite a large number of images submitted so I wouldnt take it so personally.
Originally Posted by Leigh(CG Society Staff member)
We will not have a Truespace forum here. End of story.
I think also this could well have been taken out of context, we dont know how much email and spam they may have been getting about this, Im going to email them asking about having a a TS forum on CGtalk, as a 2 year running paying member I think its fair that they take my opinion on board.
Wow, that forum admin over there sounds like a real ...piece of work. End of Story.
There are many lol, I guess you gotta hope for a good one to look at ur work |
Post by transient // May 25, 2007, 1:31pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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The thread had nothing to do with starting a trueSpace forum on cgtalk. The guy who posted was wondering why nobody discussed the software in the forums.
I personally don't think a forum there would benefit anybody either btw. This one is fine. |
Post by Improv // May 25, 2007, 3:07pm
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Improv
Total Posts: 0
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I didn't think posting that link would cause you stress madmouse - maybe it was a bad idea. I personally wouldn't boycott the entire site because of some childish behaviour on their part.
FYI the mod who locked the thread is a published LW author.
Maybe you could start posting our stuff in the wings forum there (a bona-fide industry favourite lol).
LW? Light Wave?
Maybe if more people posted here:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=155&t=481903
requesting a TrueSpace forum they would see that there is a demand.
They recently started a Mudbox forum, and as good a piece of software as Mudbox is, I bet there are more TrueSpace users. Therefore, why no forum?
I for one would like to see a TS forum at CG just to show them that they are wrong. <sigh!> |
Post by Steinie // May 25, 2007, 3:31pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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No CG_Talk for me, End of Story Part 2 |
Post by mrbones // May 25, 2007, 6:04pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Their loss.
FWIW I resubmitted Mr. Jackson to CG society. This time I got a rather snotty email back telling me that....
'...unfinished heads are not allow in the gallery. If you wish to submit head models then please do so as a full bust. In future please read the gallery submission rules...':mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: |
Post by W!ZARD // May 26, 2007, 1:20am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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The issue is quite simple for me. Mouse entered his art and it was deemed unsuitable and dismissed. This is censorship. Censorship is theft. Any person taking on the responsibility of determining what is art and what isn't is on an unjustifiable power trip and is therefore unworthy of my support or energy.
From a common sense perspective, form an ethical perspective and from a marketing perspective - even from a sociological and game theory perspective - this type of discriminatory selection is unjustifiable. Putting it more simply it's just plain poor business practice.
Every disgruntled customer tells 10 other potential customers (or in Madmouses case 832 potential customers who are currently members of this forum) who tell 10 other potential customers.
Be nice to people. This is essential to marketing. It's not rocket science. It's also what my Mother would call 'bad manners'. |
Post by MadMouse // May 26, 2007, 2:07am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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:banana: Thanks for all the support guys.:banana:
This forum will always be the best for me but I'm still intent on doing my bit to spread the word of TS.
For too long we've been considered the black sheep of the 3D world and we deserve better!!!!
I've already joined 3D commune (although the truesSpace gallery is a little like the one man W!ZARD show at the moment :D)
I'm going to take a look at www.threedy.com as Jack suggested.
And I have plans to rework my web site as my next project to try and promote TS that little bit more.
Maybe if a few more of us made a little effort along these lines, things would change. (hint hint;) ) |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // May 26, 2007, 3:13am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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You could also try the 3DTotal galleries (3dtotal) though I have a feeling there's a degree of anti-tS snobbery in play (I might be wrong). You don't have to mention what tools were used in your submission though, if you want to play dirty! Can always ask for the submission to be updated after it's been accepted!
Of course, it might be simply that there's not been any tS art accepted (I assure you some has been submitted!) which is why none appear in which case, go break the mould and be a trend setter! |
Post by Matski007 // May 26, 2007, 3:50am
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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The issue is quite simple for me. Mouse entered his art and it was deemed unsuitable and dismissed. This is censorship. Censorship is theft. Any person taking on the responsibility of determining what is art and what isn't is on an unjustifiable power trip and is therefore unworthy of my support or energy.
Wizard, remember that his work was allowed into his portfolio, it isnt complete censorship at all, I think the portfolio pages are excelent, and I get a lot of visits, and I think its important that as many of us get these Portfolio pages with our images to make our presence more known.
Improv: They recently started a Mudbox forum, and as good a piece of software as Mudbox is, I bet there are more TrueSpace users.
You may be wrong there, also you should see the quality of work that has come out of mudbox:
http://www.mudbox3d.com/gallery/images/FaustoDeMartini_Armor_Open.jpg
As harsh as it may sound, some of this work is far superior to anything TS has has been able to achieve "yet" anyway. |
Post by Steinie // May 26, 2007, 4:20am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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MadMouse be a Pioneer! They won't know what hit em' W!zard already cut the trail.....yeeeee haaaaa move those ponies.
As you already know I'm practicing what I preach and I expect more of you to do the same. We've been inbreeding for too long. The saying "A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words" is true. If we put out some good stuff their attitudes will change. |
Post by transient // May 26, 2007, 4:27am
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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That image was also done by a 3d god, which helps.
I would love to get my hands on Mudbox.
Truespace images have been floating around the web for years. Maybe recently there seems to be fewer because there's just so much content out there now.
People always rag on each other's apps, it's just human nature. If you do a picture that's good enough, most punters will respect you for it no matter what you use. |
Post by Steinie // May 26, 2007, 4:35am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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The Artist is more important then the Software.
MudBox is affordable at $300 well within the reach of us lowlife TS users...:rolleyes: |
Post by Improv // May 26, 2007, 8:17am
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Improv
Total Posts: 0
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You may be wrong there, also you should see the quality of work that has come out of mudbox:
As harsh as it may sound, some of this work is far superior to anything TS has has been able to achieve "yet" anyway.
You seem to have misunderstood my point. I was not talking about the quality of Mudbox work. I have used the demo and am actively considering buying Mudbox.
(Although the soft model tools in TS 7.5 are quite nice.)
My point was that at this time, there may be fewer Mudbox users than TS users, yet there is a Mudbox forum at CGTalk. |
Post by Improv // May 26, 2007, 8:20am
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Improv
Total Posts: 0
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MudBox is affordable at $300 well within the reach of us lowlife TS users...:rolleyes:
That's the basic version for $300, btw.
Did someone say that Mudbox wasn't affordable? :confused: :confused: |
Post by Improv // May 26, 2007, 8:31am
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Improv
Total Posts: 0
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The issue is quite simple for me. Mouse entered his art and it was deemed unsuitable and dismissed. This is censorship.
You seem to be making the issue rather simplistic, not merely simple. Shouting buzz words like Censorship is like yelling fire. Both get peoples attention but are not necessarily the case.
By that I mean that CG Talk is a private forum and as the owners they set the rules. Much like the TS forums here, neither forum is a truly public forum like the usenet forums. People mistake private forums for Usenet public forums because both are on the internet.
I agree in this case that their behaviour is objectionable; but they do have the legal right to do so. |
Post by W!ZARD // May 26, 2007, 10:51am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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You seem to be making the issue rather simplistic, not merely simple. Shouting buzz words like Censorship is like yelling fire. Both get peoples attention but are not necessarily the case.
By that I mean that CG Talk is a private forum and as the owners they set the rules. Much like the TS forums here, neither forum is a truly public forum like the usenet forums. People mistake private forums for Usenet public forums because both are on the internet.
I agree in this case that their behaviour is objectionable; but they do have the legal right to do so.
Hi Improv - I'm calling it as I see it. For me the issue is very simple - anything that restricts appropriate freedom of expression is censorship. This is the primary principle my remarks were based on. There are of course additional factors and perspectives as you correctly point out.
You seem to have overlooked my comments about intelligent marketing and game theory, neither of which can really be dismissed as simplistic IMO.
You are of course totally correct with your remarks about CGTalk being a private forum and as such they have the right to choose what content they accept - I equate it to my right to hang the pictures I choose on the walls of my own house, a right which should extend to every one. There is a difference however in that I am not inviting people to hang their pictures on my wall and then arbitrarily excluding some based on questionable judgements.
Either way, CGTalk are free to choose what art they want based on whatever criteria they want - by the same token I am free to choose to support forii based on criteria that I select, thus I choose to support forii and galleries that adopt a bipartisan and empowering attitude toward their membership and I choose to not support forii and galleries that operate policies expressing censorship and depowerment.
You point out CGTalks legal right - to my mind a legal right does not neccessarily imply an ethical right and certainly does not neccessarily imply a logical right! I forget now who said it (Washington?) but the saying goes something like "I don't agree with the way CGTalk operate but I support their right to choose how they operate". Equally I support MY right to choose how I operate and I choose to not support CGTalk because of the operational choices they make.
The real principle for me is 'do unto others as you would be done by'. What we fight makes us weaker, what we support makes us stronger - thus I choose to support those who are also supportive as this makes us all stronger. |
Post by Matski007 // May 26, 2007, 12:24pm
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Matski007
Total Posts: 539
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hmm, this thread has lost its original intentions. It seems unjustified that this image didnt make to the cgtalk gallery but thats their loss.
I would personally like to see the head put into use in a scene like the mace windu one, but maybe with a leather jacket or something like in Snakes on a Plain, but also please keep putting ur work on CGtalk, it would be great to keep a community on CGtalk too |
Post by Improv // May 26, 2007, 1:09pm
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Improv
Total Posts: 0
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I'm calling it as I see it.
Obviously-just like everyone else.
Instead of letting off steam and banging on here about this issue, go do something constructive over at CG Talk and work to change things. Yelling censorship as you have done does nothing to change things, but only serves to let off steam for you.
There is a request for a TS forum at CGTalk-why not go over there and express your opinion by voting for a TS forum. I know I already have.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=155&t=481903
THAT would be a positive solution instead of moaning and groaning here.
:rolleyes: |
Post by RichLevy // May 26, 2007, 2:29pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Obviously-just like everyone else.
Instead of letting off steam and banging on here about this issue, go do something constructive over at CG Talk and work to change things. Yelling censorship as you have done does nothing to change things, but only serves to let off steam for you.
There is a request for a TS forum at CGTalk-why not go over there and express your opinion by voting for a TS forum. I know I already have.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=155&t=481903
THAT would be a positive solution instead of moaning and groaning here.
:rolleyes:
There was another petition to get a TS forum there some years back... reluctantly CGTalk allowed TS people to post in the 3D general thread. IF TS users had persisted maybe something might have happened. Instead it was a place where just a couple of guys posted about their personal projects over the course of a year or 2. Both user's eventually switched to other packages.
I think you are better off doing your basic forum stuff, community interaction, WIP and questions about TS here. That is a tough professional crowd their... TS is considered a hobbiest tool at best, I know, I socialize with several of the forum leader's.
Who cares if the world recognizes the software that you are using? It is Caligari's job to promote the software... your's is to have fun with it :D
Rich |
Post by Finis // May 26, 2007, 3:16pm
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Finis
Total Posts: 386
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Great Picture! The expression you gave his face is excellent. I am convinced Mr. Jackson is going to "get medieval" at any moment.
As a trueSpace user, artist, and online art gallery (hopefully soon) business owner my opinion is that Mad Mouse's picture is art and is good enough to be in the CGS gallery, the behavior of some the CGS staff is unprofessional, and excluding TS or any CG/3D software is bad business. They are not, and should not be, obligated to behave differently but they should have chosen to. A business would thrive best by providing a needed or wanted service to its customers in an effective, reasonable, and polite way.
Promote yourself, and by doing that TS and any other software you like, at places that don't give viewers the impression that your work and your tools are second rate.
If the ones who were rude and biased at CGS are the top bosses of that website then don't post there because nothing will change. Give your support to their competition. If they are not the top bosses, and you think it is worth it, then do as Improv said. Try to change it.
Post in many places. I don't like the suggestions to only post here but I agree with Rich Levy about this being the place for WIP's and questions, etc. This is trueSpace's home. Post your good finished work on other sites also.
P.S. Is 3DPDK at sea? He hasn't posted recently. |
Post by mrbones // May 26, 2007, 3:48pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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I care because I create content with trueSpace and sell to other 3D software users.
I have fun making money with TrueSpace software.
Who cares if the world recognizes the software that you are using? It is Caligari's job to promote the software... your's is to have fun with it :D
Rich |
Post by mrbones // May 26, 2007, 3:54pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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So you are saying we are weak and un-professional here? Sorry if this is a misinterpretation.
At best I consider myself to be an industry professional and currently use TrueSpace because it is the best professional tool for the job at hand.
I dont quite understand your discouraging statements to improv and what it has to do with your socialization of forum leaders at cgtalk? Something doesnt sound quite right ....
Wizards comments make complete sense....
That is a tough professional crowd their... TS is considered a hobbiest tool at best, I know, I socialize with several of the forum leader's.
Who cares if the world recognizes the software that you are using? It is Caligari's job to promote the software... your's is to have fun with it :D
Rich |
Post by RichLevy // May 26, 2007, 4:21pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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So you are saying we are weak and un-professional here? Sorry if this is a misinterpretation.
At best I consider myself to be an industry professional and currently use TrueSpace because it is the best professional tool for the job at hand.
I dont quite understand your discouraging statements to improv and what it has to do with your socialization of forum leaders at cgtalk? Something doesnt sound quite right ....
Wizards comments make complete sense....
Why is it you always are accusing me of things I am not saying? What exactly did I do to you that that feel you can tromp around putting words that I am not saying into a post?
I merely stated an opinion that other people have told me they have about TS... never did I mention the people here or any user of TS nor did I even imply it... And there is no negative message in that post. The best thing the TS community can do "IN MY Opinion" (and it is only my opinion) is to keep the forums here active and creative as they have been in the past and hopefully stay in the future. That is as strong a selling point as great software...
What you do for a living and money are no concern of mine...
Rich |
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