|
|
Lord
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Post by Leif // Jun 6, 2007, 4:50am
|
Leif
Total Posts: 276
|
This is how I use my digital imaging software for the most part!
And conveying why I got trueSpace in the first place:
6680
This day is a good day :)
Enjoy |
Post by TomG // Jun 6, 2007, 5:36am
|
TomG
Total Posts: 3397
|
I like the nebula effect in the front of the image. I think the text is too out of focus though and I would make it in focus (no harm in having your main message in focus!).
I also think the materials on the wording could be more dramatic - something more realistic, more visually interesting. I'd go for some exciting real-time shaders, or for some nice V-Ray / HDRI style stuff for realism (one nice thing and HDRI etc is that it can add a sense of "solidity" to an object, a sense of weight, realism).
Of course all that is just my opinion as to how I would approach a render like this one, so feel free to ignore :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by splinters // Jun 6, 2007, 7:28am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
I am afraid I have nothing positive to say about this which kinda negates a reply I guess...:confused:
However, I do find no interest at all in your messaage and if we remove that then you have a niceish nebula effect which may or may not be done in trueSpace.
For what it is worth, I am an atheist and my family are brought up agnostic. I do not put forward anti-christ/religion messages as that is simply my belief.
Unfortunately it gets my back up when that courtesy is not returned from 'believers'.
As your 'render' is little more than a pro-jesus poster, I guess that was the message you were trying to get in here.
No offence to christians (I am ex-catholic) but if I enjoyed fox hunting (for example), I wouldn't feel obliged to write a 3D message about it to share with you. |
Post by Improv // Jun 6, 2007, 7:53am
|
Improv
Total Posts: 0
|
Ditto, Paul. It's not enough that the JW's come knocking on the door Saturday morning invading our neighbourhood's privacy, now other religious types deem it necessary to invade a website where I come to learn about my favourite 3D software.
I'll put it more bluntly than Paul did: keep your religious beliefs to yourself and the rest of us will do likewise !
Guess the religious types are getting hard up for converts these days! :rolleyes: |
Post by mykyl1966 // Jun 6, 2007, 8:22am
|
mykyl1966
Total Posts: 221
|
Although I don't particularly enjoy seeing text based images, nor do I hold the same belief but I feel it causes no harm to anyone if he wants to show what his interests are.
Just as a Star Wars fan may do endless models of Star Wars models and images or Architects who enjoy their work doing countless models of buildings. There is no difference.
I really did not expect to see this kind of reply to someone on this forum. Regardless of the persons belief. I thought this was supposed to be a friendly forum? If you don't agree with someones choice of image then what is the problem with just moving on to the next image in the forum without the comments.
Disappointed.
Mike R |
Post by splinters // Jun 6, 2007, 8:52am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Fair points and I was trying to be diplomatic in my response but I agree with improv, there is little artistic merit in that image once you take the text out...and the text is simply a pro-jesus message which I do not like to see in a 3D forum. The interest is trueSpace then yes, share it with us...perhaps write 'I love trueSpace' or trueSpace is great'...:rolleyes:
Also, part of my subconcsious seems to remember a thread, quite some time ago, by the same author that escalated into quite a religious war.
So, I must echo what improv said (but perhaps less blunt ;) ) feel free to post artwork of all levels from beginner to advanced and keep the tone friendly but please, no religious promotion...it actually offends some of us. |
Post by Leif // Jun 6, 2007, 8:53am
|
Leif
Total Posts: 276
|
Tom; the text is out of focus willfully so :) |
Post by Leif // Jun 6, 2007, 9:27am
|
Leif
Total Posts: 276
|
Yes Its quite good the new text tools I like them.
I tend to be more tech than artist, spending much time finding out things , exploring tS / other program's 'universes'... |
Post by kena // Jun 6, 2007, 10:26am
|
kena
Total Posts: 2321
|
I don't find this render any more or less offensive than the 6.6.6 model. Just not on the same caliber as that one. I would have to Agree with Tom's post. The blurry letters detract from the overall render. |
Post by hemulin // Jun 6, 2007, 10:28am
|
hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
|
You could try beveling the edges of the text so that the text can reflect of an hdri texture. It depends how distinct you want the words to be. |
Post by TomG // Jun 6, 2007, 10:46am
|
TomG
Total Posts: 3397
|
I would ask that comments be kept to the render, and not the content. No-one berated the Version6.6.6 image as being devilish, instead it was all about renders, light, materials, poses etc.
Let's do the same here. If someone wants to post 3D renders of text with their message, then that is still a 3D render and is valid. If it is not a good 3D render, then tell how it could be made better - dont say "this render is bad it is just an excuse to put the message in there" as that is making assumptions.
So I would say this render is as entitled to be here as any other, and as entitled to feedback. I think a lot of improvements could be made to it, it has a long way to go I believe, for my tastes anyway. Either the comments will be taken on board and a better image will result - or the comments won't, and the image will not improve.
Either way, that's just the same as any other image on here :) Now if the original person posting this or any other person starts discussing the message and not the render, that is a different thing.
I don't want this image "banned or panned" just because of its subject matter, any more than I would have any other image "banned or panned" for its content alone.
While the original poster here may have had a flame war in the past, there was nothing like that here - he did not raise the subject in the image outside of the image itself, and neither should anyone else :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by e-graffiti // Jun 6, 2007, 12:04pm
|
e-graffiti
Total Posts: 171
|
This is how I use my digital imaging software for the most part!
And conveying why I got trueSpace in the first place:
6680
This day is a good day :)
Enjoy
If I was not a Christian myself I would have no clue what the text says. I think a point of view "change" would improve this image or perhaps less blur/and or cloudiness. |
Post by Wigand // Jun 7, 2007, 6:52am
|
Wigand
Total Posts: 462
|
I would ask that comments be kept to the render, and not the content. No-one berated the Version6.6.6 image as being devilish, instead it was all about renders, light, materials, poses etc.
Thomas, thank you for your wise words.
I can not explaine my thoughts in english, but
your reaction and answers were very moderate and helpfull. |
Post by Leif // Jun 7, 2007, 9:05am
|
Leif
Total Posts: 276
|
Thank you for your comments and tips everyone,
I'll put more emphasis on 'perfection' next time.
I wanted it to look more like an old poster thing, not exactly an eye pleaser.
Sincerely; |
Post by prodigy // Jun 7, 2007, 11:55am
|
prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
|
Leif, my recomendation is try to search another point of view.. the word "jesus" is dificult to read.. maybe changing a bit the angle makes a better impact.. and sure, reduce the dof effect!!!!!!! :D
My personal opinion? if nobody insults any religion, people, color of skin, ethnic discrimination, etc, this kind of renders is ok for me.. |
Post by Leif // Jun 7, 2007, 2:03pm
|
Leif
Total Posts: 276
|
the word "jesus" is dificult to read
That was intended, to be true.
Thanks |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 7, 2007, 10:13pm
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
Well I think it's safe to say that this is a provocative work! :D . Technically I think it lacks polish - the text is hard to read given the extreme angle. It is also not a particularly attractive font in my opinion. Text can be highly artistic (look at all the beautiful Moslem sayings written in gracefull flowing Arabic script for example). Highly decorative lettering from Medieval illuminated manuscripts and even the highly stylised text of modern corporate logos are all examples of text as art.
This picture looks .... well, artless. The text is a very simple and common font extruded into a 3rd dimension with no embellishment or ornamentation.
Recommendations: Select a more decorative font, perhaps something cursive, so that the letters themselves are visually interesting. Definitely choose a less acute angle of view.
If you specifically want to stay with a blocky font consider adding interest through the use of textures.
For the 'old poster' effect you are looking for try finding an image of an old poster (it's message is not important) to use as a visual guide to the look you want. Old circus or movie posters might be helpful. Also you may find it easier to add the 'old' effect using post processing. Using a canvas or paper texture for the picture for example.
Lastly, dispite Toms request that comments are confined to the render and not the content I feel it would be a disservice not to offer some feedback about the content as it affects the artistic value of the image. Firstly I should say that I am not a Christian - I consider that organising my life on the reinterpreted translations of a seventeen hundred year old political text makes as much sense as trying to program my VCR from instructions painted thousands of years ago on some cave wall. But each to his own. I am sufficiently familiar with Christian Mythology and beliefs to know that the saying "Jesus Is Lord", dispite it's ambiguity and grammatical shortcomings, is intended to be spiritually uplifting and inspirational - Praise the Lord, Halleluja and all that. Based on that assumption I would have thought that a lighter, brighter, clearer treatment would be in order.
What you have here strikes me like saying "Gosh isn't it a lovely day" in dull cloudy, fuzzy grey lettering. The overall significance I draw from your picture is that you believe "Jesus is Lord" but hide the validity of that belief in foggy dull lettering obscured by difficult to read angles. I'm no psychologist but given that such a sentiment is supposed to be a cornerstone of personal belief your present treatment of it compels me to ask, who are you trying to convince here? If I'm going to ask that question you can be sure I'm not the only one.
With all due respect Leif I would expect that someone expressing a fundamental tenet of their lives like this would be looking for a brighter, more joyous and uplifting treatment of the content. Of course I'm only guessing at your intentions with this - you may well have some other message entirely. Maybe you are saying that it's hard to see the saying "Jesus Is Lord" as having any validity unless looked at from a weird angle or some such cryptic significance - if so it's not clear.
I hope this helps |
Post by Leif // Jun 7, 2007, 11:22pm
|
Leif
Total Posts: 276
|
Well would you know it!
Funny what response comes from such a piece of work aint it .
Have a nice day everyone :) |
Post by Steinie // Jun 8, 2007, 1:37am
|
Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
|
He received the "reaction" he intentionally intended. Hook, line and sinker. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 8, 2007, 2:34am
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
Funny what response comes from such a piece of work aint it .Er no, not really. Is that the best response you can come up with to my remarks?
He received the "reaction" he intentionally intended. Hook, line and sinker.
Hmmn - Bob if you are suggesting that he's trolling I must confess that thought did cross my mind too. I elected to give him the benefit of the doubt as it seemed a more 'Christian' thing to do!
Given his short and somewhat cryptic response that ignores my comments I suspect it's a benefit I shall shortly be withdrawing. |
Post by xmanflash // Jun 8, 2007, 12:45pm
|
xmanflash
Total Posts: 335
|
Hmmn - Bob if you are suggesting that he's trolling I must confess that thought did cross my mind too. I elected to give him the benefit of the doubt as it seemed a more 'Christian' thing to do!
I think he has proven the point that freedom of expression is often limited to non Christians. Calling anyones faith "Mythology" is a huge insult, surely? But that is apparently acceptable whereas "Jesus is Lord" is offensive ? |
Post by Norm // Jun 8, 2007, 12:54pm
|
Norm
Total Posts: 862
|
Er no, not really. Is that the best response you can come up with to my remarks?
Hmmn - Bob if you are suggesting that he's trolling I must confess that thought did cross my mind too. I elected to give him the benefit of the doubt as it seemed a more 'Christian' thing to do!
Given his short and somewhat cryptic response that ignores my comments I suspect it's a benefit I shall shortly be withdrawing.
I find your comments are stepping across the bounds of forum rules. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 8, 2007, 9:22pm
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
I think he has proven the point that freedom of expression is often limited to non Christians. Calling anyones faith "Mythology" is a huge insult, surely? But that is apparently acceptable whereas "Jesus is Lord" is offensive ?
"I think he has proven the point that freedom of expression is often limited to non Christians". I'm curious as to what leads you to this conclusion. Speaking for myself I try to live by the principle that what other people think is none of my business - by which I mean that if I want the freedom to believe what I want to believe then that freedom is automatically relevent to everyone else - after all it would be arrogant to suggest that I know better than anyone else :D .
Freedom of expression, provided it is free of malice and intends no harm is something I respect and would extend to every entity on the planet.
"Calling anyones faith "Mythology" is a huge insult, surely?" No. It was not my intent to be insulting. I use the term mythology in the sense of "Old stories that usually explain how something came to be" and "stories of a particular culture that it believes to be true and that feature a specific religious or belief system". This applies equally to the belief set of any individual, myself included, who subscribes to one set of beliefs or another.
A 'belief' is not an object nor a absolute entity in it's own right - a belief is a mental construct, an internal thought pattern that creates a model of what reality may or may not be. Therefore everyones beliefs are unique to the believer - even two members of the same religious belief system (or mythology) will have there own unique spin or viewpoint over any given article of faith - meaning, as discussed elewhere recently, is in the eye of the beholder.
Some folk believe that their beliefs are accurate representations of reality. It is my belief that a belief, which is simply a thought pattern, cannot be an accurate representation of reality - the map is not the territory.
"But that is apparently acceptable whereas "Jesus is Lord" is offensive ?" I've never claimed that the statement or the belief that 'Jesus is Lord" is offensive only that it is grammatically ambiguous in that it's not really clear from the statement itself what it means. I've suggested it is also potentially provocative to people with differing beliefs. If someone wants to believe that "jesus is lord" they have every right to do so - and by the same token if someone wants to believe the phrase is offensive then they also have the right to their beliefs. Personally I do not find it offensive.
In the specifics of this discussion Leif has created an artwork which also textually expresses his personal beliefs - which he has every right to do. I have attempted to give a helpful and respectful summation of my response to that artwork based on the assumption that this is what he was looking for when he posted his art in the Finished Artwork forum.
At no time have I criticised him or his art or his beliefs in a disrespectful manner. Who am I to judge the validity of anyone elses cherished beliefs? My aim has been to simply express my own beliefs in a respectful and hopefully helpful manner:D .
One person may believe most apples are red - another may believe most apples are green. Unless they both sit down and count every apple in the world neither of them can know which belief is actually 'true'. There is no single right or wrong belief about the colours of apples. Either person stating their belief does not constitute an offense against the others belief - it is merely a different belief and equally as valid as any other belief.
I hope this has clarified any misunderstanding or miscommunication on my part.:) . |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 8, 2007, 9:25pm
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
I find your comments are stepping across the bounds of forum rules.
Hi Norm.
I'm sorry you feel that way - I would never deliberately or intentionally do anything to offend another here or to transgress forum ettiquette or forum rules.
I'm rather mystified however as to how I may have transgressed forum rules. You've said what you think but not why you think it. This makes it a bit difficult for me to effectively address your concerns.
Please note that I have not made any accusations nor levelled any insults at any individual - that would be rude and bad manners.
Consider that Leif posted his picture and I gave a polite and considered response at some length. His response was to essentially ignore my assitance and to dismiss my sincere efforts at helping as 'funny'.
On other forums I attend this would be considered rude, bad manners and classed as 'trolling' behaviour. The great thing about these forums is the lack of such behaviour but the thought crossed my mind and has been suggested by other forum members that Leifs post was not just a piece of art which coincidentally expressed a personal belief of his but also a deliberate attempt to incite a typical internet flame war and/or push religious propaganda.
I am not saying that he is, only that from my perspective I see that could possibly be his intention. If I see subsequent behaviour that appears to contradict this potentiality, well, all well and good - I sincerely hope this is the case.
If on the other hand I see subsequent behaviour that appears to confirm this potentiality then, as is my right, I will simply stop communicating and offering my assistance and insight to him. Unless I'm totally missing something here that seems to me to be completely fair, sensible and logical.
If I have transgressed forum rules then I would appreciate being told how and would subsequently adjust my behaviour accordingly.
Thanks
Stephen
W!ZARD |
Post by xmanflash // Jun 9, 2007, 3:24am
|
xmanflash
Total Posts: 335
|
Hey Wizard..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth describes the following..
"In these academic fields, a myth (mythos) is a sacred story concerning the origins of the world or how the world and the creatures in it came to have their present form."
and
"A myth, in popular use, is something that is widely believed but false. This usage, which is often pejorative, arose from labeling the religious stories and beliefs of other cultures as being incorrect, but it has spread to cover non-religious beliefs as well. Because of this usage, many people take offense when the religious narratives they believe to be true are called myths (see Religion and mythology for more information)."
I understand you meant it as academic, but its not always read that way.. - thanks for your explanation though, I appreciate your thoughtful posts. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 9, 2007, 4:13am
|
W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
|
Hey Wizard..
I understand you meant it as academic, but its not always read that way.. - thanks for your explanation though, I appreciate your thoughtful posts.
Thanks Flash, you are very welcome. Communication can be easily derailed when folk attribute differing meanings to the same word. One of my favourite quotes: "Communication is the breeding ground of misunderstanding"!:D |
Post by Steinie // Jun 9, 2007, 4:42am
|
Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
|
Leif,
Could you do Rendering saying "Lord created Bugs and so can you" with a link to our speed modeling competition? We need more renderings. See innocent and I'm sure no one took offense.:)
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=3226
Edit: except "Programmers"! |
Post by EyeInStein // Jun 9, 2007, 9:04am
|
EyeInStein
Total Posts: 38
|
IMHO, the words are hard to read, listless and the change in depth of the words an unnecessary disturbance in the flow. Since I am still working on a first render worth posting here - I will not offer more critique. As for the rest..
I can still hear my dad telling me..."Son, there are three things you don't discuss in public...Sex, Politics and Religion ". I'm just itching to discuss the starting of a thread that leaves the subject so open to criticism - and being so flippant with answers, but I will not.
I sat here and watched this thread for 2 days and learned quite a bit about some people. I grew up in a Christian home and still find the teachings sound. My beliefs are my own and have nothing to do with what Wizard tried (I think) to point out in a parallel thread and Tom so wisely pointed out earlier in this one, the discussion in these forums is art. Plain and simple. Subject matter is 'subjective'.
I have to say that the more I visit the forums, the more respect I have for this small community, the administrator and many of those I see posting helpful answers and being so respectful of others. Thank you for the kindness. |
Post by 2much4U // Jun 9, 2007, 1:54pm
|
2much4U
Total Posts: 430
|
This thread has gotten quite out of hand, from what I can see. Now, being a very undecided catholic and all, I can see the situation from various points of views. Personally, I think that there has been a lack of communication here. Examples are as follows:
* In leif's first post, he didn't ask for C & C, and he didn't convey that he was presenting and image. Instead the message he gave off was And conveying why I got trueSpace in the first place: Jesus is Lord.
I honestly think that this was quite inappropriate for the forums, which, as many can see, is filled with people with different beliefs.
"If it isn't something people want to hear said, don't say it at all."
Leif - it's great that you want to share this artwork of yours, but the manner in which you did so gave off an entirely different message.
* I honestly think that what set this fire was this post: (no offense to the user)
Ditto, Paul. It's not enough that the JW's come knocking on the door Saturday morning invading our neighbourhood's privacy, now other religious types deem it necessary to invade a website where I come to learn about my favourite 3D software.
I'll put it more bluntly than Paul did: keep your religious beliefs to yourself and the rest of us will do likewise !
Guess the religious types are getting hard up for converts these days! :rolleyes:
Again, no offense to you, Improv, but, being "a religious type" I feel as though you have practically slapped me across the face.:(
Yes, it was not a good thing for leif to bring this about in the way that he did, but I'll bet that right now, many of you have made him feel ashamed for posting what should be a message of joy. To be honest, I think that this thread should should be deleted, because it seems to have gotten many at odds with each other.
I'm going to end this post with a link to another thread from not so long ago. Please read it, anyone, and compare it to this.:(
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=1110 |
Post by e-graffiti // Jun 9, 2007, 3:51pm
|
e-graffiti
Total Posts: 171
|
I'll put it more bluntly than Paul did: keep your religious beliefs to yourself and the rest of us will do likewise !
2much4U, I would not be so quick to dismiss religious themes as in some threads the image CAN be removed from the message as in the case of the 666 beast thread, it was never even brought up that the message is a New Testament Christian teaching. Another example is the Cruisers for Christ thread:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=2613&highlight=christ
inwhich the reaction was not the same as in this thread, and it blatantly mentions Christ! Both threads received constructive image based critiques. So I think the reactions to this thread are based on who it comes from and how it is presented. It is sad that it spread beyond that... Even present day art is greatly influenced by the Christian themed art of DaVinci, Michelangelo, and Dali... to name a few. When tS first added volumetric lighting to its toolset (I think it was tS version 4) the first thing I created was a crucifix illuminated by the volumetric lights. Who knows the next fascinating religious themed art piece could be 3D and made in tS! I would have posted it to the tS image gallery but it did not exist yet :) |
|
