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Who's your daddy?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Who's your daddy? // Work in Progress
Post by Weevil // Jun 27, 2008, 12:31am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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*THUMP* Him.
This image was to improve my...ah...somewhat shaky terragen/Truespace collaboration
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/cougarimage1.jpg
Now depending on where you think the sun's centre is will depend on the image
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/cougarimage1a.jpg
It isn't intended as an amazing cimematic image but to improve realism regardless of the camera angle
The shadows are still a little tacky
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/front2-1.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/rear2-1.jpg
For those who don't know. This is a Cougar from Mechwarrior |
Post by Nez // Jun 27, 2008, 2:16am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Overall, pretty cool. I'm not familiar with Mechwarrior so don't know how accurate the model is, but I like it. I keep meaning to play more with using tS and Terragen.
How have you dealt with the ground shadow? Seems a bit off, though difficult to pin down why. Did you use the 'shadow catcher' shader on a ground object?
Could also do with a bit more fill light from the front to just help pick out the details a bit more - I know your key light is back lighting him, but you want to see some of that detail - you can always argue that abit is bouncing up of the desert floor anyway.
Cool stuff... |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jun 27, 2008, 4:22am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Looks like the ambient is way too high. There's no depth to the shadows and the overall image has low contrast. Allowing the shadows to be darker and richer would strongly improve this image. The concept and shapes are very good though. |
Post by Weevil // Jun 29, 2008, 3:03am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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Hmm. Using the shadow catcher would have been ten times easier. And that was the first thing I did. But for some reason. It didn't catch ANY shadows. It just appeared as a square (I did check and it was applied)
So in which case. I had to render the model as a .png to sort out transparency issues and then put it in as a new layer in paintshop pro and draw the shadows in myself.
I think what I need to do a reduce the fogging I put on. Or change it from ground fog to regular |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jun 29, 2008, 7:25am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Ah! The fog would explain the washed out colors in the image. You may want to do a depth render and add the fog in post, that way you'll have more control over the effect. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 29, 2008, 4:09pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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A strategy I've used with some success is to set up the scene with the shadow catcher but no fog and do a render. Then in a copy of the scene paint everything matte black and activate the ground fog. Rendering this gives you an image with basically just the fog which you can then add to your first render using the layer function in a 2d app like The GIMP or PS.
Combining this approach with Jacks Depth Render will give you the option of having both general distance fog and ground fog at the same time. Another advantage of this approach is you have realtime feedback over the amount of fog simple by varying the fog layer opacity in your 2d app.
Hope this helps. |
Post by Weevil // Jun 29, 2008, 10:25pm
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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I'll give it a try. I can't say 100% that the shadow catcher will play ball.
The problems I have is that sometimes it either. Just...does not appear at all. OR. The shadow catcher appears like it's an unpainted plane. Like below.
Either way no shadows appear so I gave up there and then. Has is got something to do with the fact I'm using and IBL light with mapped shadows turned on, not raycast shadows. |
Post by Weevil // Jun 29, 2008, 11:39pm
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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here we go
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/cougarimage3.jpg
I found out that you can't use shadow mapping with the shadow catchers
Which is a bit of a bummer |
Post by TomG // Jun 30, 2008, 4:37am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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You might try Catcher for ShaderLab, both are free. I always preferred my shadow catcher to the one in tS ;)
http://www.tmgcgart.com/ShaderLab/html/shader_listing_1.htm#Catcher
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Weevil // Jun 30, 2008, 5:52am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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Oh good lord you are my saviour! |
Post by spacekdet // Jun 30, 2008, 3:05pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Oh good lord you are my saviour!
Now you know what the 'G' stands for. |
Post by Weevil // Jul 8, 2008, 11:09pm
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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*Ahem* I have here, a little bit of a re-work. I've also given up on trying to model anything on top of terragen, I've now finished part two of this, a second mech, called the Vulture, have I got any screenshots? No. It was completed before I thought about it. But I have got these
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/front1-1.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/rear1-1.jpg
New materials, up to...six layers there.
For those who are interested, I got a .mov of this, and the first one, and inside the cockpit no fancy lighting because overnight renders aren't an option in my house.
The gun. Yes is recycled from the first model, for anybody who's played mechwarrior, it is possible, but, if you haven't seen the first model then it wouldn't matter
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/gun.jpg
The leg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/leg.jpg
Now to complete it, the cockpit, still not completely finished, but it does the job until you look into the thing (which you won't really)
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/cockpitfull.jpg
Oh yes, better tell, you, this is also recycled, so it's now my generic cockpit
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/cockpit1-1.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/cockpit2-1.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/cockpit3.jpg
In a bout of quick thinking as I was installing the game, I saw a mech cockpit, that had the same canopy as the vulture, so I print screened it. No, I don't understand the prolouge either, and no, it wasn't really quick thinking, the installation wasn't going that fast. I have also sorted the issue with the canopy poking through the top.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/cockpit-1.jpg
I was suprised that the cockpit was slighty more 'accurate' not that I really care than I first expected.
I've also worked out a half decent paint scheme for the first model
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/newpaintscheme.jpg
Attachments, it's easier for me this way
Vulture
http://www.mediafire.com/?m30nmhd1u0n
Cougar (I messed the paints up at the back that's why one vent is black)
http://www.mediafire.com/?mn1mjvjzlmx
Vulture cockpit (I suggest you zoom in)
http://www.mediafire.com/?exelwbm1wmb
Now, what sort of final image to do, I'm quite partial to the wireframe -solid wipes...Thoughts? |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 9, 2008, 1:59am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Wow! Very cool work! :banana:
The textures are looking good and that cockpit detail is extreme! :cool: |
Post by Liger ZERO // Jul 9, 2008, 7:03am
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Liger ZERO
Total Posts: 124
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Vary cool Mechs. I played a lot of Mech Assault back in the day. I can't wait to see what your finished image will look like. |
Post by Dragneye // Jul 9, 2008, 7:08am
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Wow... very cool :-) |
Post by 3dfrog // Jul 9, 2008, 8:36am
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3dfrog
Total Posts: 1225
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very nice work, no criticisms here. looking great. |
Post by butterpaw // Jul 9, 2008, 2:35pm
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butterpaw
Total Posts: 831
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ooh wow...I really like this ... can I have one to guard my sister's house? (that'd keep the burglars out) :D
Really like the detail .. ^_^ |
Post by Davin // Jul 9, 2008, 9:49pm
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Davin
Total Posts: 59
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Very nice, I love mechs and robotic things.
The only things I see are that the barrels on the first one have no thickness, I would add a little thickness to them like you did for the second mech. Also I would model out the vents a little to let them get some shadow and depth.
The cockpit looks amazing and I would love to see it textured.
The texture work on the mechs look very well done. |
Post by Breech Block // Jul 10, 2008, 10:08am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Great work Weevil. I'm really impressed by your texture work. They really do give your model a great sense of mass and scale. Hope your going to add some grunge and perhaps a battle scar or two. |
Post by Weevil // Jul 10, 2008, 11:22pm
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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Cheers guys. But, we aren't finished yet, by a long shot, if you look at the cockpit, it was...err, a little constricted, I wouldn't want to look out of it for long. So I looked at that, and used, this video to help (which is the mechwarrior vengance start video (I love this video, you just don't get videos like this anymore)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWSWKycpMM8
So now my mech cockpit looks like this
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/front2close.jpg
You'll also notice I've added the warning stencils, such as the intake warning, the 'please point gun this way' sign, and other random numbers I got from the mecwarrior mercs screenshots I took. And we've got the insignia
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/front2-2.jpg
These are final images I'm thinking of rendering, there is no partner for the second wireframe image purely because I started rendering at 9, and by the time it got to 11:30, I figured I might want to call it quits. The final images will be much bigger
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/Final.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/Final1.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/Final2.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/Final3.jpg
And as is obligatory, the new vulture and cockpit
http://www.mediafire.com/?umycl3dnyaj
http://www.mediafire.com/?txn2nzjxg1e
I've also chamfered the body so it doesn't look so squared, if I'm honest I think it looks better and adds just that bit more to it |
Post by Davin // Jul 11, 2008, 4:11pm
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Davin
Total Posts: 59
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Yes, that does look quite a bit better. |
Post by Dragneye // Jul 11, 2008, 5:18pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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GREAT job dude! |
Post by Weevil // Jul 13, 2008, 3:47am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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I'm just trying to keep this thread afloat until I can upload again, I just need to do one more thing, followed by another huge thing, and then you'll be able to look at it in the gallery |
Post by Weevil // Jul 13, 2008, 10:53pm
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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And now I can upload.
Ha har. Mr Vulture is completely finished (minus mr cockpit, but you're not going to be looking at mr cockpit, no, you're going to be looking at mr cockpit, you're going to be looking at mr vulture and mr environment). I sorted out the barrel hip disease and now added and extra improvement so the leg can move (realistically) in all directions. Huzzah. Observe
Video below
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/th_legjoint.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/?action=view¤t=legjoint.flv)
So that's attached to the leg. So that means I have to remake the picture, there's no sense uploading this again because it elimates the selling point of this (loooooooooooonnnng) render which was a larger image so you can zoom in, because I put the pilot in there, things slowed down a lot, like you do. I've watermarked it simply because it's good to awknoledge the people you steal from. The 'insignia' on the mechs legs and body are from Arwing landing. The place I post most of my StarFox fan work
Image below
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/Final5.jpg
Now, to the point of the pilot, this model was designed by a guy called Shardian, the pilot isn't the official mech pilot character and seeing as I can't do humans and he's the only humanoid/bloke/thing that hasn't doesn't have improbable joint poisitions so far I figured I might as well milk his usage for all it's worth. I shall now also jump up and down and advertise sharidans design work, and jump up and down and advertise my first half decent attempt. And to help me emphasis the point, is mr banana :banana:
Movie file below
http://www.mediafire.com/?qx4gyyz4zbm
Moving swiftly on, another image from a different angle, you can see the pilot better but he looks...strange, so we'll leave it at that
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/Final7.jpg
Just for poop and giggles I decided to do the vulture running, this is the reference video I recorded (it took four damn takes:
First time: Hit record "WARNING. Approaching mission boundaries" Thank you. So much
Second time: The trees I was running past kept moving the camera. Why did I choose this level. Oh yeah, it's a city, which is flat. WHY ARE THERE RANDOM TREES!
Third time: Y'know, now I notice something, this paint scheme just sucks for identifying indivdual parts
Fourth time: Let's not make the same mistakes this time shall we?)
video below:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/th_walkref.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/?action=view¤t=walkref.flv)
Anyway, recorded it, brought it in as an animated texture onto a simple plane, and tried trace animating.
Ah. Snap.
I made the legs completely wrong
Snap
So stuff it I'll do it myself.
It also occured to me whilst making this. This model has the movement restrictions of a lemming. I saw this whilst actually playing the game (no not lemmings (but I will...some point)), facing down the enemy, twist the torso 180 degree's to shoot a bandit behind me whilst charging a fortified defense pos...oh. Oh dear my leg has just gone through my head. Why am I still alive?
It may be just as well I made the legs on MY Vulture wrong
So there's not much else to say aside from the fact that after I did two run cycles I got bored and just repeated the render a bunch of times, I can't say that it's seamless but hey. Enjoy
Video below:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/th_walk2.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/?action=view¤t=walk2.flv)
And once again, here is another .mov file, this time with the vulture in a set pose, showing what parts can move and such. In a fantastic*, enthralling*, and exciting* emulated minature model like pose
Movie file below
http://www.mediafire.com/?yn3legkniye
Now, the environment, a mech hangar, I'm not going to link that video again because it's in my previous post, I used that to help me. Here's what I've got so far:
Image below
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/halffinishedimage.jpg
It's seems a shame to paint it to me, because it makes the detail less subtle, but I'm fond of the lighting. And once I make** the next hangar cubical I think I've found my shot. But now I have to improve the vulture itself and the lighting isn't without it's own kinks. And now I look at it again, I forgot to turn off the 'cast shadows' option on the warning stencils, now there's a black square underneath them (because ts 6 doesn't render shadows based on transparency maps (not that I'm being picky)) I also think the volumetrics and shadow resolution should be improved, but then, I want a computer, not a coughing crater, I'm pushing my box hard enough as it is so I'll leave that until the final render.
*Dark (or so I'm told (I don't find a problem in that fact), Nearly the same as last time, and the same reason phrased differently so I can use the power of three
**Copy the first cubical
If you've survived this minefield of brackets and paragraphs...congratulations. But what are doing reading this sentence when the gist of this message is ABOVE YOU.
Yeah. |
Post by Nez // Jul 13, 2008, 11:01pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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I didn't look at the vids but I really like your hangar building - looks very cool. If I was going to get all technical, I could make a few engineering points about the roof trysses and the like, but to be honest I think it's more about the look, which is really excellent. Like the lighting too. Know what you mean about not wanting to paint it up - really nicely detailed models are a bit like that....
Great job |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 14, 2008, 12:08am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I agree with Nez, this is some really nice (and fast) work with really good visual results. :banana: |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 14, 2008, 12:40am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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(because ts 6 doesn't render shadows based on transparency maps (not that I'm being picky)) .
Um, actually yes it does! You have to tell it to render transparent shadows.
Select your light source, right click the shadow toggle icon to open the shadow properties and shadow transparency is in the second row down.
Note that use of Transparent Shadows means longer render times (but more accurate shadows) and also setting transparent shadows will automatically set your shadows to Ray Traced. Shadow maps do not support transparent shadows.
HTH |
Post by Weevil // Jul 14, 2008, 3:47am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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AHA! I've used it before to render transparent shadows when I have glass and such, but my issue with it is that I need shadow maps for this to work. If I make two lights...no wait that won't work... Because this is a still what I'm going to do is this:
Render the scene without warning stencils, then render just the warning stencils on a black background so I can mask them out and stick them on as a new layer in psp. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 14, 2008, 11:42pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Why use Shadow Maps at all? If you want soft shadows there are several good methods for making soft shadows using arrays of raytracing lights with Transparent Shadows enabled. In many cases this approach will give you greater control over every aspect of the shadows. |
Post by Weevil // Jul 14, 2008, 11:48pm
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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I guess it's become a habit, of course, my stock lighting for the objects I make uses an IBL light teamed up with some infinate lights, it's good enough quality, but it's a pig to render. I've gone to raytraced shadows simply because waiting to "generate shadow maps" was grinding a bit. I don't think I've put on a good work of it though. |
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