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Bring back the ability to maximise toolbars
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Bring back the ability to maximise toolbars // Feature suggestions
Post by Alien // Jan 30, 2006, 3:42pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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If you want Caligari to give us back the ability to maximise all of the toolbars, & not just 1 or 2 of them, cast your vote here - maybe if enough of us vote for them they might change their minds.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/images_for_caligari_forum/maximisedtoolbar.jpg
Or, if you're a masochist who likes forgetting where an icon is & having to go hunting for it because you can't maximise a toolbar anymore you could always vote no. ;) |
Post by bill // Jan 30, 2006, 3:44pm
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bill
Total Posts: 114
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I would vote YES... bring back maximize. Not only maximize but lock them in place so they don't jump down behind another icon bar whenever you rotate around in the scene. |
Post by stan // Jan 30, 2006, 3:55pm
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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count me in..:banana: |
Post by Mitch // Jan 30, 2006, 5:30pm
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Mitch
Total Posts: 70
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I would vote YES. |
Post by hoss // Jan 30, 2006, 7:39pm
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hoss
Total Posts: 21
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I agree with this. This is a feature that has helped me a lot over the years, especially when moving to a new version of trueSpace.
-Patrick |
Post by mrbones // Jan 30, 2006, 9:50pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Its much easier like it is now. no more fumbling with open and close.
Just click hold and glide along and see them all. Thats easier for me.
The new icons will take a little getting used too. Paul did an awesome job on the new set.
This was an issue voted on this during beta testing. IMHo |
Post by hultek43 // Jan 31, 2006, 12:15am
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hultek43
Total Posts: 234
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An icon, a static picture to click on to initiate a function. I liked the TS 6.6 UI and icons, had them committed to memory from many hours of use. With hot keys set for my most commonly performed operations (view changes and move,scale,rotate) and the config library, the ability to go from one method of working and or set of tools/plug-ins to another was quite straightforward and fast. :confused: |
Post by KeithC // Jan 31, 2006, 3:18am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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I like the ability of being able to see all the available tools at once (even if it does clutter the scene for a bit), it's easier to learn the tool.
Mr. Bones, are you saying that the beta team was the one that voted on it? If so, does the beta team represent all Caligari users? I don't mean to be starting anything here, but the Beta Testing Team shouldn't have the final say in all things (I realize that is the reason for a beta testing team but,...) IMO. But I can't really say too much as of yet, until I get my hands on a working Demo. Till then...
-Keith |
Post by parva // Jan 31, 2006, 3:33am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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... Mr. Bones, are you saying that the beta team was the one that voted on it? If so, does the beta team represent all Caligari users? I don't mean to be starting anything here, but the Beta Testing Team shouldn't have the final say in all things (I realize that is the reason for a beta testing team but,...) IMO...
-Keith
We made suggestions depending on personal opinions like everyone.
Also your call will be heard...
The last word has Roman. |
Post by trueBlue // Jan 31, 2006, 7:27am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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I also like the fact that you could hit the Tab key and they would hide. |
Post by bill // Jan 31, 2006, 8:58am
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bill
Total Posts: 114
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Its much easier like it is now. no more fumbling with open and close.
Just click hold and glide along and see them all. Thats easier for me.
The new icons will take a little getting used too. Paul did an awesome job on the new set.
This was an issue voted on this during beta testing. IMHo
Hey Mr "B". I don't believe these two methods are mutually exclusive. Seems to me that you can have the icons that you can glide your mouse over and have them open up AND have the ability to lock them expanded if you should so desire. This would make it much easier for someone trying to learn where all the icons are and then after they are all memorized you wouldn't need to keep them expanded. I like the new method but I would also like to keep the icons all open sometimes so I don't have to go hunting for them. |
Post by GraySho // Jan 31, 2006, 9:25am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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Hey Mr "B". I don't believe these two methods are mutually exclusive. Seems to me that you can have the icons that you can glide your mouse over and have them open up AND have the ability to lock them expanded if you should so desire. This would make it much easier for someone trying to learn where all the icons are and then after they are all memorized you wouldn't need to keep them expanded. I like the new method but I would also like to keep the icons all open sometimes so I don't have to go hunting for them.
Not only if you try to learn, but also when you use them constantly like the point editing tools. Those are the most used icons for me, and as it is now it simply slows down the workflow. In 6.6 there was the option to switch from fully expanded and rollout. What was wrong with that?
The new method for me is like cutting 3 fingers from your hand so that the hand isn't that cluttered. |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Jan 31, 2006, 3:50pm
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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With TS6.6 I knew where the icons were located but I left the bars expanded nevertheless. Just saved some mousing time for the most part.
It was kinda nice! |
Post by Colfax // Feb 2, 2006, 11:43am
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Colfax
Total Posts: 49
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Truespace7's New Way Easier Way:
1. Click and Hold Left Mouse Button on the Tool Icon that contains the Icon you want (this assumes you know where your Icon is hiding).
2. While still holding Left Mouse Button, move to the desired Icon.
3. Release Left Mouse Button over Icon
For other Icons. Repeat entire process
Truespace6.6's Old and Busted Way:
1. Click (fumble for) the Icon you want. (this assumes the toolbar is maximized).
For other Icons. Repeat entire process.
Don't you fools see that TS7 is way easier! To select 4 seperate tools, TS7 only puts me through twelve steps. TS6.6 puts you through an insanely long 4 steps.
Subjective: adj. Proceeding from or taking place in a person's mind rather than the external world. Particular to a given person; personal.
Objective: adj. Having actual existence or reality. Not influenced by emotions or personal prejudices. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually.
What a person makes using Truespace generally falls into the category of artistic expression, where opinions and subjectivity are really all that matter. Truespace itself, as a program, is not a form of artistic expression. It is a tool meant to help artists and designers work more efficiently. Yet, when we talk about the technical side of Truespace, and the way that it functions, this 'opinion' stuff really comes up alot.
When I asked how to be able to show the entire text of a button when you switch to 1D icons, the majority of response I received was opinions on how people prefer to use 2D icons. Knowing that you've settled on a way of doing things doesn't do a thing for Truespace users trying to get the most productivity for their time, or trying to find the most efficient methods. Now that we're asking for functionality that used to already be in Truespace, listening to opinions about letting newer but slower methods grow on you seems asinine.
Unless I misread what Mr. Bones meant, my real vote is that some decisions shouldn't be left to a vote by the beta testers. I thought the role of beta testers was to let you know IF something was working right and not HOW it should rightly work. Hopefully, Caligari spends more time on research and development than opinion polls. You can end up with all kinds of subjective opinions on how you might like to do something in TS, but we can objectively measure the efficiency of a given method over another by considering factors like simplicity, speed, and the number of steps involved.
With all that said, I don't see how anyone can objectively say the functionality to show every icon in a toolbar at once is a slower way of finding icons than digging for them row by row. |
Post by roman // Feb 2, 2006, 12:44pm
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roman
Total Posts: 320
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I must admit I never liked maximized toolbars. There it is I am admiting this openly. The reason was that many TS reviewers maximized all toolbars to show their readers all TS Icons thus entirely covering actual 3D workspace with 2 D Icons. I am a big advocate of direct 3D manipulation and I hated those screen grabs which "ruined" the simplicity of TS perspective View.
However! There is no reason to be religious and not to allow maximized toolbars if you guys realy want it. It seems to me that majority spoke already. TS7 2D UI will be improved next month when V-Ray1.0 will ship so we could fix this and a few other unfinished Icon issues like Frame number field and scrubber which was omited from Animation toolbar. |
Post by Alien // Feb 2, 2006, 12:51pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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Woohoo!!!
<does the happy Alien dance>
:banana: :jumpy: :banana:
Thanks Roman. |
Post by splinters // Feb 2, 2006, 12:53pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Great news Roman, especially the frame number and scrubber..:D |
Post by Alien // Feb 2, 2006, 1:10pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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I have no idea what the scrubber is, but I'll take Splinters' word for it that it's a good thing. :)
As the subject of toolbars is still fresh, Roman - any chance we can have the old corner-colour scheme back? Instead of having both [old on context, just red on new bars], I mean. The old 1 [green for "there's more under here", & red for right-clickability] made more sense, as it gives more info. I like the fact that the new triangles are bigger, I'd just like the old colour scheme back [or at least a scheme that showed both pieces of info.
On a different topic, but while I've still [hopefully :)] got your attention, given that you plan to update the frame number thing, would it be too much extra work to add time taken & time remaining on stills? I think I kinda have a vague idea how I could do it myself, I'm just a long way off from having all the knowledge to do it yet. |
Post by hultek43 // Feb 2, 2006, 2:23pm
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hultek43
Total Posts: 234
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Yippie, now all I have to do is win me a copy to play with.;) |
Post by stan // Feb 2, 2006, 2:27pm
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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That's great Roman..can we have "Ctrl S" back too, for saving scenes ..the new way is not very efficent..and scrollwheel function on the stack view libraries..
will we have desaturation of icons as an option in this update.. it would be great if you change it around so they can be brighter normally, then when you mouse over ,the one under the mouse gets desaturated and leave the bright when clicked alone...that would be fantastic..
THANKS |
Post by Alien // Feb 2, 2006, 3:23pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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will we have desaturation of icons as an option in this update.. it would be great if you change it around so they can be brighter normally, then when you mouse over ,the one under the mouse gets desaturated and leave the bright when clicked alone...that would be fantastic..
I'm not sure desaturation is a good idea in any situation, except when a button's disabled because it's not relevant to the context or whatever. I think what would be great would be something like 2 different coloured borders around the edge of the icon.
Perhaps something like if it's not activated, but get's moused over we get a MO [moused-over] coloured border, if it's active we get the active border, & if it's both, it could be split, 1/2 MO colour, & 1/2 active colour. Just a thought. |
Post by stan // Feb 2, 2006, 4:38pm
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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Alien, that would be a good way too ..I was just keeping with what they have to work with, that way hopefully making it easier to implement.... |
Post by Alien // Feb 2, 2006, 4:42pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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....something kinda like this:
mouse-over:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/images_for_caligari_forum/rendscn-mouseover.png
active:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/images_for_caligari_forum/rendscn-active.png
mouse-over & active:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/images_for_caligari_forum/rendscn-mouseover-active.png
Stan, you beat me by a few seconds - I was just about to post this when I got the reply-posted email [I have Mailwasher set to check once a minute :)]. As you're the 1 with the vision probs, let me know what you think - maybe not as neat as Splinters would have done, but that's why he's the 1 making icons for Caligari. :D
<edit>
Yes, that is 1 of his I modified, I was referring to the quality of my modifications.
</edit> |
Post by stan // Feb 2, 2006, 4:56pm
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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that's cool, but with the rectange lines twice as wide..like 6.6 and more in scale to the big corner markers for right click and option panels......it seems when people use high screen resolution, they would have similar issues.. |
Post by Alien // Feb 2, 2006, 5:20pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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You mean like this?
mouse-over:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/images_for_caligari_forum/rendscn-mouseover2.png
active:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/images_for_caligari_forum/rendscn-active2.png
mouse-over & active:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/images_for_caligari_forum/rendscn-mouseover-active2.png
It makes the borders easier to see, but not the corners. :( Then again, maybe if Caligari were to find the right colour combo for borders to go with the triangles it might look all ok together. |
Post by stan // Feb 2, 2006, 5:28pm
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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that's better ..with the corners they are there or not..so if you put an icon with one corner it would show..I always thought a two colour border would be neat..black and yellow or some combination like a hazard sign [diagonal stripes ]..not sure if your's in the UK look the same.. |
Post by bill // Feb 2, 2006, 8:33pm
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bill
Total Posts: 114
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Something like that would be really great. The way the icons are now the difference between active and inactive is very subtle. For instance see these icons below. You have to really look at them to determine which is active and which is not. With color coding it would be much more obvious. |
Post by Naes3d // Feb 3, 2006, 12:50pm
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Naes3d
Total Posts: 0
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Does right clicking the trashcan still give you all the icons? |
Post by Alien // Feb 3, 2006, 12:57pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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Nope, that function now has a button of its own.
<edit>
... which looks like this: :icon_IconFinder:
</edit> |
Post by tscorpio // Feb 28, 2006, 3:31pm
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tscorpio
Total Posts: 84
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What about moving the toolbar that contains the trashcan & layer buttons:
Is there a way to move that strip around?
It has a handle but it doesn't respond to any dragging.
:mad: |
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