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August - MMC (Castle) WIP
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
August - MMC (Castle) WIP // Work in Progress
Post by kena // Aug 5, 2008, 8:34pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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well.. take a look at these:
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~vikink/assets/photos/cathedralcrane.jpg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ralfgoerlitz.de/wp-content/gallery/cathedral-crane/thumbs/thumbs_Domkran3.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.ralfgoerlitz.de/%3Fpage_id%3D33&h=130&w=97&sz=4&hl=en&start=27&tbnid=nbuao2Q8KGpKTM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=68&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmedieval%2Bcrane%26start%3D20%26gbv%3 D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.rahji.com/gallery2/main.php%3Fg2_view%3Dcore.DownloadItem%26g2_itemId %3D107%26g2_serialNumber%3D2&imgrefurl=http://www.rahji.com/gallery2/v/praha/&h=150&w=105&sz=4&hl=en&start=21&tbnid=1VflNzrRQ4hIOM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=67&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522medieval%2Bcrane%2522%26start%3D 20%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.handshouse.org/crane/crane20062.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.handshouse.org/crane/2006crane.html&h=292&w=200&sz=26&hl=en&start=34&tbnid=KCnzJdBnWVpTMM:&tbnh=115&tbnw=79&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522medieval%2Bcrane%2522%26start%3D 20%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
not all cranes have to sit on the ground to work - you can put one on top of your castle. |
Post by MikeJoel // Aug 6, 2008, 2:45pm
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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Thanks Kena.
I ended up reworking it, while keeping the base.
It isn't completely done but here it is so far.
Basically it is a simple layout of mostly cubes. I attempt to to replicate socket construction by subtracting half of each beam (cube) from the one it will fit into. I'm not cheaping on things like the crank at the base :D, meaning that I could have simply thrown a low face count cylinder in there and textured it to look like it was made of a board per side. Instead I use cubes and texture each as a board.
It still needs a few things such as poles on the crane rotator at the base, ropes, an arm off the back of the upper rotating area so that a rope can lace through it to a horse driven hoist cranks that will be off the back area. Then there will be an anchor rope to the back with another crank (horses again) that will allow the crane to raise and lower it's arm.
Don't worry I haven't forgotten the castle. :D
I have considered with all the work going into the models I need around it if I shouldn't switch to a normal castle being built, but that would completely change the "look" I wanted. I want the kind of look when you combine unrealistic focal point with normal items. (sorry I don't know what the technical descriptions I should use are.).
Well anyway here is a wireframe and render of it so far. |
Post by Breech Block // Aug 6, 2008, 3:08pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Don't worry I haven't forgotten the castle. :D
LOL
Great work Mike, the new crane looks fantastic. Can't wait to see all the additional items you are going to add. The only thing I would be concerned about is that in your original post showing the crane, the rook\castle lost some of its scale. Before, we only saw it in comparison to people and horses so the rook always looked big and impressive. Now that you have added a quite sizeable looking crane to the scene (which I'm sure is technically correct), IMO, the rook's stature has now been somewhat diminished. |
Post by MikeJoel // Aug 6, 2008, 3:41pm
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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LOL
Great work Mike, the new crane looks fantastic. Can't wait to see all the additional items you are going to add. The only thing I would be concerned about is that in your original post showing the crane, the rook\castle lost some of its scale. Before, we only saw it in comparison to people and horses so the rook always looked big and impressive. Now that you have added a quite sizeable looking crane to the scene (which I'm sure is technically correct), IMO, the rook's stature has now been somewhat diminished.
Excellent point. I hadn't thought of that.
Having to pull back to get the castle in I may have to drop some of the stuff I wanted going on in the background.
Is there a limit to submission picture size and can you have more than one?
I increased the size of the castle to where the crane can just make the top.
How does this look? |
Post by Breech Block // Aug 6, 2008, 4:27pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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I think you will find that you are restricted to submitting only 1 image to the competition thread. The idea is to keep that thread fairly clean so its easy for everyone to view. However those voting should take the time to view your WIP thread where you can post as many images as you wish. As for the size, I think the forum limit is 800 x 1200. There are also file size limitations which are format specific. You should also check the competition rules as there may be a specified image size for submissions to keep them all looking the same.
As for your latest post, I think its a vast improvement and the impressive scale of the rook has been restored.
If you were really struggling to get everything in scale wise you could cheat a bit. By that I mean you could have the image focused on a half built rook and then have other fully constructed chess pieces in the background which would indicate to the viewer what was being constructed. |
Post by MikeJoel // Aug 8, 2008, 11:51am
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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Spent some time working on a tree (birch tree).
I have the branching done (well I would like to add a few smaller ones).
How do people leaf out their trees? Do they simply put a sphere with a transparent leaf texture or actually put individual leaves on it?
Thanks
Mike |
Post by Heidi // Aug 8, 2008, 12:01pm
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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I use an alpha map on a plane (or quad-divide the plane so it can be slightly curved). I paint a twig structure and several leaves on the plane. Then I place the planes around on the branches. It's a cheap way to add another heirarchy level to your branching and get your tree foliated at the same time. :) |
Post by rjeff // Aug 8, 2008, 12:02pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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hey mike there are two free tree gen programs that I just posted..if you look in the MMC main group. They will give you what you need..since we are limited on time..but the tree looks real good. And yes alpha mapped planes would work better than a sphere IMHO. |
Post by MikeJoel // Aug 8, 2008, 1:16pm
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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Thanks again for all the information.
rjeff - thanks I will be able to use those on other projects :D but for this one I am trying to make everything in TS.
Here is what I ended up with. I made multiple planes and tilted some. Then copied it and placed one in front and one behind and then another in between tilted upwards away from the camera (this one was to help increase shadow). |
Post by rjeff // Aug 8, 2008, 1:28pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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that looks real nice...very nice indeed. You may want to submit that 3DFrogs truespace shop. I woud definately keep that in my library. |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 8, 2008, 7:52pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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One of the most helpful tools for making trees like this (I'm looking forward to having it replicated in the workspace) is Model Side's Geometry Paint. Ipi can make yourself a cluster os alpha planed leaves and simply paint them onto your tree as required - very cool, saves a lot of hand placing things.
HTH |
Post by Dragneye // Aug 8, 2008, 8:05pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Very nice work MikeJoel. A suggestion for keeping realistic scale for the Rook, is to make your Blocks texture much smaller. Compare the blocks to a person, and what they would create, from bricks up to the Pyramid size.
Very nice tree btw :) |
Post by MikeJoel // Aug 9, 2008, 2:23pm
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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Thanks all.
I will wait till after the contest is over before posting any models over to frog, that way there won't be any confusion of whether I made it or not.
I don't think there is any such plug in for 3.2.
I had thought of making the blocks smaller (and also redesigning the rook/Castle) to make it more elaborate :( :...( the current model has over 300 blocks. All of which have to first be stacked, then each one cut from the form, then each one UVed........ :(
But I think it looks a lot better like that than making it one big piece and then cut parts out for the cunstruction.
While I'm posting what do you do when you have a section of a model that no matter what you do the UV won't paint it right?
Thanks again,
Mike |
Post by saigoel // Aug 9, 2008, 4:53pm
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saigoel
Total Posts: 40
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hi Mike
how many planes did you use to create the leaves for the tree?
it looks pretty cool..!
>David Ramirez Ch. |
Post by MikeJoel // Aug 9, 2008, 6:37pm
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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hi Mike
how many planes did you use to create the leaves for the tree?
it looks pretty cool..!
>David Ramirez Ch.
Thanks
I am using planes with transparent tga textures.
Here is a screen shot of just one side. About 7 planes on the front and then another 7 on the other side.
The texture has a lot of transparency (that is why I used so many planes). It allows me to rearrange the planes quick to make the tree look different.
I want to try it with individual planes for each leaf (or leaf set) but I don't think I will have time to try that for this contest.
Also by placing each plane on a different Y depth you can get a thicker looking greens and more shadow cast. |
Post by Breech Block // Aug 9, 2008, 7:03pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Crikey Mike! Your attention to detail is amazing. Can't wait to see more. |
Post by MikeJoel // Aug 10, 2008, 5:53pm
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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I need a carriage so here it goes. Im not sure how this will turn out.
It took me a while to get the shape right. I tried lathe, extruding.... and finally settled on a simple oval cylinder :D (after looking at a few pictures it appears this is the basic shape). Added a few vertices and edges one the sides so it could be bent out to form the sides and doors.
So now I hollowed it and have trimmed it out in gold and seats. |
Post by kena // Aug 10, 2008, 7:02pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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nice start on the carriage. |
Post by MikeJoel // Aug 11, 2008, 6:47am
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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Here I got the wheels. I had to change a few things.
Made the body of the carriage shorter (it was looking like a baby stroller).
Reworked some of the gold gilding around the door, it was too thick.
Front wheel assembly is wider than the back to allow the steering.
Im not to happy with this so far. Hopefully it is going to pull together.
I'm trying to speed up my modeling so I will have enough time to rework the castle and setup the scene. |
Post by kena // Aug 11, 2008, 9:52am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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you could flatten the bottom - just a bit wider than the door to make it less like a baby stroller. also - the least number of spokes I've seen on a wooden wheel was 8. Most have 14 or 16... always seems to be an even number though. |
Post by MikeJoel // Aug 12, 2008, 12:30pm
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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Been playing with it. I had the coachman's seat detached and disliked it. (There was a lot I disliked about it).
But I think it is coming along better now. I moved the coachmen's seat back and connected it in with the coach (I know there isn't a previous picture of it). I still have to add some items like handles and whip holder and such, upholstery.
The inside of the coach has a flat bottom.
I think this is the last major model piece I need... I now have to get the castle ready. |
Post by Breech Block // Aug 12, 2008, 12:35pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Very nice work Mike. Can't wait to see all these components come together. Nice tiled grass texture as well. |
Post by MikeJoel // Aug 12, 2008, 2:21pm
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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Very nice work Mike. Can't wait to see all these components come together. Nice tiled grass texture as well.
Thanks...
We're not supposed to make our own textures too are we? |
Post by kena // Aug 12, 2008, 3:48pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Thanks...
We're not supposed to make our own textures too are we?
You can if you like. But you don't have to. You can use any texture that is available. You might want to use a texture that you find in the program and maybe tweek it just a little bit. It's up to you. |
Post by Heidi // Aug 12, 2008, 4:06pm
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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Your carriage came out great. :) |
Post by MikeJoel // Aug 16, 2008, 2:39pm
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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As anyone can see I haven't posted in a week.
I got very busy and have probably spent 2 hours all week on the models.
I have been rescaling the carriage. I went to test it next to my horses and people and found why I disliked the model so much. It was completely wrong proportionally.
The seats were much to small compared to the rest of the carriage. The wheels were way to big. I also have reworked the seats to be more "seaty".
I will try to post it.
I hope to get it all together in time but like I said I lost about a week's worth of spare time to work on it.
Kena also scared me. |
Post by Davin // Aug 16, 2008, 3:14pm
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Davin
Total Posts: 59
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I don't think any one has an issue with using textures that already exist.
I make mine from scratch so that I can get better at making textures, but I do not think every one should have to make all their own textures since this is more of a modeling competition. I know that texturing is important to modeling but this is not a PhotoShop or texture competition.
That is my view any way. |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 17, 2008, 2:47am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Wizards First Rule of Texturing - do it anyway you can (other than stealing). Grag your textures from anywhere and never use them without tweaking/ modding/ layering etc.
tS Model Side Material editor is brilliant for this - paint your 'borrowed' texture on a plane or cube and start adding layers, bump, reflectance maps, alpha maps etc and use tS lighting then render a single image file you can use anywhere.
Of course you can also do this in the GIMP or Photoshop as well.
For me the rule is "no texture used without some form of modification" - even if it's a texture I made myself from my digital camera!
And don't let Kena scare you - he's a big softy really!
These challenges aren't about getting better than someone else there about getting better than you were before - and they are great for this! |
Post by MikeJoel // Aug 17, 2008, 9:28am
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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Here is the carriage.
It should now be to scale. |
Post by Steinie // Aug 17, 2008, 12:09pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Nice attention to detail. I can't wait to see all this come together. Your doing a great job! |
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