Organization - Balance - Feng Shui - Whatever

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Organization - Balance - Feng Shui - Whatever // Feature suggestions

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Post by JPSofCA // Jun 2, 2007, 9:33am

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Nothing's worse at giving someone a migraine than having to constantly dig around visually to figure out what the h#!! is going on! My eyeballs are going cross!


Since it's all about the "interface", could we please have a little consistency within it? :rolleyes: (not just within the keying panel, but everywhere balance and consistency can apply)


The existing interface is on the left, and the recommended interface is on the right.


I don't want to come across the wrong way, but I'm serious about this sort of thing...there's no excuse for it:

Post by stan // Jun 2, 2007, 10:23am

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where is that panel located, I never come across that one yet..:confused:

Post by JPSofCA // Jun 2, 2007, 10:28am

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Right-click the "record keyframe" button (the red circle) on the AE toolbar.


In the new animation system you can specify what gets recorded in the keyframe - this is where you do that. :)

Post by om1nous // Jun 15, 2007, 8:23am

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I would agree that the next major upgrade on TS needs to be specificly on the overall interface consistency in general. Hiding things in some drop-downs (some of which you can't see unless you resize frames), inconsistent image buttons (and things like ctrl-clicking a bitmap area to open a file dialogue??) and such need to be made consistent and visually logical.


And I agree, things like that menu, there's no reason it's out of order aside there's some lazy programmers in Caligari. But software developers always go crazy on features and cut short a lot of things (manual/interface/compatibility this time), and then clean it all up in end-game. Lets hope they do just that.. TS75 is definitely a public beta test for TS8. Better be a good upgrade price for those of us suffering at the moment!

Post by trueSpaced // Jun 15, 2007, 9:50am

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I agree with Om1nous, the next version of TrueSpace should be much more organized than this one (and should have a good price;)). I think they should have done a similar transition between 6.6 and 7.5 as they did between 5.2 and 6.6. I've never seen what TrueSpace 7.11 looks like, so I don't know if it's unorganized, or looks just like 6.6 or what, but 5.2 and 6.6 look almost identical, except there are a few new toolbars, etc. I like how the un-rendered view is that of the quality of a rendered view from previous versions, and I like the new tools, but that's about all I'd keep from TS 7.5! TrueSpace isn't so easy to use anymore... :(

-TrueSpaced :banana:

Post by om1nous // Jun 15, 2007, 10:21am

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I understand everyone needs to eat.. Caligari does also.. You can't go on developing the next upgrade for years and years without getting someone to pay for it. So putting out this version put some bucks back in the company coffers and we're all on board to help you fuel the next phase of development. But right now we're taking one for the team with a huge movement from the old interface to the new, with seemingly random shortcomings that hurt effeciency or feasibility of using trueSpace on both sides.


Just make up for it with the next version and I'm sure it'll all be swept under the rug. The future looks exciting as long as truespace returns to its roots. Which is to make things easier.

Post by transient // Jun 15, 2007, 12:42pm

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And I agree, things like that menu, there's no reason it's out of order aside there's some lazy programmers in Caligari.


Maybe should point out there's a rants 'n raves forums for this kind of thing. It's nonsense anyway imo. In complex software little things like this are easy to miss.


I would agree that the next major upgrade on TS needs to be specificly on the overall interface consistency in general. Hiding things in some drop-downs (some of which you can't see unless you resize frames), inconsistent image buttons (and things like ctrl-clicking a bitmap area to open a file dialogue??) and such need to be made consistent and visually logical.



Try using Max, or any other 3d program for that matter, and you will begin to appreciate how visually intuitive this program is. It's impossible to have decent features and have everything immediately accessible in the gui. Even Bryce isn't like this.

Post by roman // Jun 15, 2007, 1:56pm

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5.2 and 6.6 look almost identical, except there are a few new toolbars, etc. I like how the un-rendered view is that of the quality of a rendered view from previous versions, and I like the new tools, but that's about all I'd keep from TS 7.5! TrueSpace isn't so easy to use anymore... :( If 5.2 and 6.6 looks almost identical, that is because they are:) we just added more features. TS7 on the other hand is a brand new architecture with some powerfull new capabilities, like collaborative edit, constraints, which were most usefull for new characters editor, Link editor which allows you create behavior without programming etc. Actualy the main reason behind more complex UI is the bridge which keeps all TS6 tools available on the touch of a button.


We were quite proud of it but some people do not like it and I understand that too. When we move all of the modeling tools to workspace UI will be as clean as it was in TS6. Meanwhile there is a whole lot more to explore than just "un-rendered" view.

Post by JPSofCA // Jun 15, 2007, 10:39pm

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:D


It's impossible to have decent features and have everything immediately accessible in the gui. Even Bryce isn't like this.


There's always one in every bunch! :banana: :banana: :banana: :confused: :banana:

Post by splinters // Jun 16, 2007, 2:18am

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We were quite proud of it but some people do not like it and I understand that too.


Were Roman, surely you haven't changed your mind already have you?


;)

Post by nowherebrain // Jun 16, 2007, 5:45pm

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Huh, I'm fine with it. the interface is great! I can hotkey virtually everything...except the point edit widget.

Post by om1nous // Jun 18, 2007, 4:08am

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Maybe should point out there's a rants 'n raves forums for this kind of thing. It's nonsense anyway imo. In complex software little things like this are easy to miss.

You're speaking to a programmer, and I'm not allowed to miss these things. Does it happen? Sure. Do I clean it up in the rare occasion it's missed? Absolutely.

-Try using Max...

Been using it since it was only called 3d Studio. And while the UI and modeling itself in the 4-view nature has changed very little, it still has a button for just about everything you could ever want. There are no multi-key shortcut-only requirements to perform a vital task, such as apply a bitmap to a color map, which is something done repeatedly every single time you use the interface. It's just poor, unintuitive GUI design.

-you will begin to appreciate...

I have been using TS since I purchased it back in version 2. The interface even way back then was very similar all the way up through 6. I'm the last one to begin appreciating TS.

-...have everything immediately accessible in the gui

Everything? No. Excessively frequently performed tasks? Hell yes.

Not sure how little of a time you've been modeling, but these are bare expectations of any modernized application, certainly not just 3D.

I would never say organizing an entire complex, multi-workflow oriented GUI is an easy task. But I'm referring to actual user-friendliness issues. And when something simply is ineffecient or poorly thought out, and you offer people the opportunity to speak about it (such as this forum and thread), responding back that I'm just trolling when I'm doing my job is actually in itself, a troll. You troll.

Post by frootee // Jun 18, 2007, 4:24am

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Hi Om1nous.

Maybe I missed something but I don't see any accusations of trolling. But I digress...


I know these things should be correct on release, but since that is not the case, I'd like to mention that, I believe it is possible to customize the interface extensively, so, since that dialog does not have the items in the correct order, you can actually rearrange them in the link editor. I know that is a P.I.T.A. especially if you have to do it to several menus, but the capability is there. There are examples in the manual explaining how to customize the UI. I say, "believe", because I have not played around much with UI editing, but have gone through some of the tutorials.


HTH


Frootee

Post by om1nous // Jun 18, 2007, 4:43am

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You've already answered for me.. I think anything that's a P.I.T.A. should be resolved before release. These things not only should have been caught in beta testing, they should have been fixed.

Again, requiring the person to ctrl-click a bitmap to pop a file dialog instead of providing a standard UI button is just downright confusing. There are times when saving UI space is required. However you need to choose what you decide to cut out carefully. At no time should you decide a frequently used, vital UI function should receive this cutback. It doesn't even have a standard hover text! They could have had the hover text say "CTRL+double-click to change bitmap" or something useful so you dont have to dig in the manual but they didn't even do that! That, is just poor design. If not just outright lazy.

The above posted cleanliness of the recording menu is another good example. Although not quite as confusing or vital, it is just something begging for error. While you're on a tight timeline and you're editing at rapid speed, you're bound to stumble over any illogical design layouts. All that's happening here is we're pointing it out and saying, please reconsider.

Post by frootee // Jun 18, 2007, 5:02am

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Om1nous,

I understand.


By 'hover text', it sounds like that is another term for a tooltip. That would be quite useful/helpful. Sad to say, I have not worked with ts 7.5/7.51 much due to real life, so I cannot check if Any of the tools have hovertext. Can anyone answer that question?


Frootee

Post by om1nous // Jun 18, 2007, 7:50am

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The main UI buttons (such as the object selector and whatnot) have tooltips (same thing as hover text). Though much of the rest of the interface is devoid of those tips. Though the nature of TS75 being a huge transition, I imagine these will be added later, as most of the interface is missing them.


I hope TS75 users, who're dealing with a very unfinished interface, get a great deal of TS8 eh? If not, free upgrade for dealing with being beta test guinea pigs ;)

Post by nowherebrain // Jun 23, 2007, 12:12pm

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Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.:p
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