P2P Rendering? Cloud computing future is now! The #1 Killer app. for 3D users.

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P2P Rendering? Cloud computing future is now! The #1 Killer app. for 3D users. // Feature suggestions

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Post by scarroll // Nov 6, 2007, 10:07pm

scarroll
Total Posts: 19
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I just read the Cringley report that mentions cloud computing and I can’t help but think to myself how, as a long time Caligari trueSpace user, why Caligari hasn’t stepped up to the plate with the number one feature that would cause it to dominate the world of 3D rendering as we know it. Realtime HD Raytracing on my ‘386.



No, I’m not crazy. It really doesn’t matter if I’m really running on a ‘386 (LOL) but honestly, my 3.0gHz dual core machine sits idle about 90% of the time (and that’s when the screen saver isn’t running) and has more the enough CPU and bandwidth to do the calculations. Even while I’m sculpting and in full production I’ve got bandwidth and CPU time to spare. I can’t be rendering 24/7 –meanwhile someone else could be. Why hasn’t Caligari released a bitTorrent P2P deviation rendering module that would deliver with it the ability to securely leverage other Caligari users that are just simply idle? At any point and time when I hit ‘Render’, my animation calculations are encrypted and delivered to ten or more other P2P users to return streamed bits of polished renderings? If Seti@Home can do it, why can’t Caligari? Build it into truePlay!


This wouldn’t be so difficult to code, more the 2/3 of the stuff is already out there and in the public domain. Hell, if you need a head start I’ll start coding it tomorrow. Was just wondering if you’re interested before your competitors get the upperhand. Community friendly network rendering that allows the user to transparently donate idle time to a trusted community = more 1000x more Caligari renderings = more $$$ = more happy users :)


My machine is sitting idle and standing by.


I have a full feature list that would ensure success and will post again soon… otherwise just tell me to shutup!

Post by TomG // Nov 7, 2007, 3:14am

TomG
Total Posts: 3397
There are many issues that would make that very tricky. One is the huge size of many 3D files, which would need to be sent across the internet in order to be rendered (and due to reflections and shadows, it would likely be impossible to divide a scene into chunks and only send some information to some computers). Given that you will likely need more than one scene at once (since you have no idea how long before any particular scene is finished rendering), you would be moving gigabytes of data across the internet (something that folding at home doesnt have to do).


Another issue would be security - if the 3D scene has to sit on someone's computer to be rendered, there's then the chance that someone will find a way to access it, and the all your models will be open for copying, a risk most folks won't take as their models or artwork are often very precious to them.


Then there is the issue of shaders, not every machine would have the same ones. The same applies to render engine, not everyone would have the same render engine (and here is where truePlay has a problem, as the render engines are licensed so could not be given away free onto someone's computer, so you could only do this with folks with trueSpace). And the same applies to plugins, especially things like particle systems.


So while I am sure all the above could be solved in some way, it would take enormous effort and not be a trivial item by any means, representing months and months of dedicated work, and even then many folks wouldn't want to take part (eg, myself - I am very guarded of my CPU time, I would want nothing to slow it down or even risk slowing it down while I am working, and then when I am not working I am often playing games, and again would want nothing slowing it down - same would go for my internet connection I'd not want to be using up what bandwidth I had on anything except the stuff I explicitly want to do), so you may find many folks would not opt in here - again different from a PS3 which when someone isnt playing a game is guaranteed to be doing nothing, which will be a large part of its life most likely!


Most of these issues are not faced by SETI or folding - they involve large amounts of processing, but on small amounts of data, where the data and calcuations is not dependent on plugins, shaders and extras but is constant and consistent, and where the data is easily divided and shared, and where the data doesnt have to be protected as such.


So I think it unlikely that this could be programmed at all quickly at the moment :) I also doubt we'll see this happen elsewhere for a while either (the solution will continue to be render farm based, where all the machines are local and owned by the same person, solving most of the issues in one fell swoop).


Thanks!

Tom

Post by splinters // Nov 7, 2007, 4:57am

splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Cloud computing? I've been doing that for months now...;):D

Post by scarroll // Nov 21, 2007, 3:09pm

scarroll
Total Posts: 19
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I'm actually starting to read the Developer Guide now and I see that it is mentioned that the Rosetta architecture of TS7 features a distributed, collaborative online platform designed to take advantage of multi-core CPU's connected via Internet. I.e. the network physics engine actually runs faster as more participants enter shared space.


How exciting! I'll have to dig deeper to see how I can utilize the API to get some 'real' work done. Anyone familiar with the protocols?
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