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Basic Icon Locations
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Basic Icon Locations // Feature suggestions
Post by Electric Jim // Jun 30, 2008, 7:24am
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Electric Jim
Total Posts: 98
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I'm really struck by the thought that some of the default locations for the basic icons in tS7.5 simply aren't appropriate. I strongly hope they'll be changed in version 7.6. For example, ...
- I really wish the Solid/Transparent/Wireframe/etc. icons, and the Perspective/Top/Side/etc. icons (along with certain others), were duplicated in each individual 3D window (as they are in the Model interface), rather than being placed along the bottom of the overall tS window. AND I wish they would then retain their state (again, as they do in the Model interface), to indicate the state of the corresponding 3D window. (It's particularly irksome that these buttons only work if they are pressed while one of the 3D windows -- as opposed to the LE, panel stack, or timeline -- is currently selected when the icon is clicked. Many times I find myself cursing because I briefly clicked on something in one of the non-3D windows before trying to change one of these settings. Because the icons don't remember which was the last-selected 3D window, this has no effect, and I have to click in the desired 3D window again then re-click the icon to get it to work.)
- Most (if not all) of the icons that are duplicated in each 3D window should not be, because they affect all 3D windows, regardless of which window they were clicked in. These are the icons that should reside at the bottom of the overall tS window, because they affect the functionality as a whole. (For example, if you are in Shape Skeleton mode in one 3D window, you're in that mode in all of them. And if you display the axes in one 3D window they are displayed in all.) I, for one, would not mind moving my mouse an extra inch or two to reach these icons, if they were appropriately placed in a single location in the overall tS window rather than needlessly duplicated in each 3D window.
I really don't understand the reasoning behind the current icon layout. Is there some sort of "optimized workflow" consideration to it that I'm just not seeing? If not, is there any chance it'll be changed in version 7.6? |
Post by Tiles // Jun 30, 2008, 7:51am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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You can customize your workspace. You don't have to live with the current layout ;)
That's in fact what i did. Hold down CTRL to drag the buttons out of a toolbar, hold down CTRL+Shift to duplicate the buttons out of a toolbar. You can even drag them besides the window so that they are out of the way :) |
Post by splinters // Jun 30, 2008, 9:28am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I often bite my lip and stand quietly on the sidelines whenever icons and UI are mentioned. Don't know why I take it so personally...:rolleyes:
I like to think of it as the full set of icons made available to you; just like the expanded toolbar everyone liked in tS6.6. You can then customise it to suit you. To hide these in a config that one person at Caligari approved would confuse new users and instigate an 'icon hunt' which could be equally effective in putting people off the program.
If it is any consolation, I have my own gripes about the UI but that is mostly about toolbar content, layout and workflow. I just make the icons as requested...someone else decides where they go...:o |
Post by Electric Jim // Jun 30, 2008, 10:35am
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Electric Jim
Total Posts: 98
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Tiles: Thanks for the suggestion about customization. I figured it was customizable, and I'm planning to play with the configuration when I get a chance. I just feel that this particular point is such a basic aspect of presenting the program's functionality to the user that this shouldn't require any customization. It just "makes sense" that the way I described it be the built-in starting point. Not because it's the way *I* would arbitrarily do it, of course, but because it's the only way I can think of that has a reasonable, describable logic to it. (I do a certain amount of GUI design myself for work, and when I'm trying to figure out the proper use of other people's software I always find myself asking things like, "Okay, why is this functionality/control/etc. presented here, in this way? What does this say about the way they think their program should be used? What is the logic of the underlying workflow that this organization implies?" And when I ask these questions about the way these icons are distributed, I can't give myself any good answers.) Also -- and I won't be able to tell this until I get the chance to play with the customization myself -- will any changes I make to the icon locations be reflected in any NEW 3D windows I display? If not, then the ability to customize the GUI only goes so far, in this regard.
Splinters: What I said was definitely not intended as a criticism of the icons' designs in any way. I think they're great designs, and I wish I had your skills at graphically communicating functionality so well. But I do strongly disagree that swapping the icon positions the way I described would somehow be "hiding" functionality. No functionality that is visible now would be hidden; it would just be organized more logically, with icons that have common applicability at the bottom of the overall tS window, and those that apply on a window-by-window basis in each window. (Many of the icons that are along the bottom of the overall tS window are there correctly. I'm simply saying that some of them are not.)
For what it's worth, I've been with trueSpace since version 1, and will always remember something Roman has been teaching us from the beginning: That, to a very great extent (especially for 3D), the interface is the application. That all the functionality in the world is of very limited use if it can't be accessed conveniently and predicted intuitively. This, I think, is a large part of why trueSpace has kept whatever part of its following that it has, over the years: That Roman cares about this sort of stuff. And this is why I think some people have expressed so forcefully, at various times, their frustration/dissatisfaction with aspects of the tS7.x interface: Because they know that Roman knows how important the interface is. And the interface is more than just the pictures used to present it. It includes organization and workflow, and yada yada yada. (It's always the yada's that'll get ya...)
:) |
Post by splinters // Jun 30, 2008, 10:48am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I did not take your comments as criticism Electric Jim and, as I said, I have my own concerns about the UI; many of them you already pointed out.
It is good for forum members to stand up and air their views as they are often taken into consideration in future versions...:D
Maybe try to customize yout layout as tiles said. Remember that you can always share your hard work if you think it is a better layout and I believe there are some custom layouts around this forum...:D |
Post by Tiles // Jun 30, 2008, 10:29pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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I see and partially share your point Electric Jim. The current buttons layout doesn't fit to my needs neither. That's why i started to customize it to my needs. Which is the solution for this issue. I see the current buttons layout just as a base layout. Which i heavily tweak for my needs :)
You have to have a base layout though. For those who are learning, for tutorial needs, etc. . The current layout could be indeed better. But could also be much worse ;) |
Post by nowherebrain // Jul 3, 2008, 5:29pm
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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There is actually a free tutorial(video) on my site, it scratches the surface of customizing your interface, but not into LE stuff(custom widgets etc). |
Post by Electric Jim // Jul 27, 2008, 5:38pm
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Electric Jim
Total Posts: 98
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FYI: The (fairly satisfying) resolution to my concerns in this thread is that in tS7.6, changes made to any 3D window's toolbar do update the template on which future 3D windows' toolbars are based. This means I can customize the icon locations as I wish, and (with one minor proviso) get the sort of 3D window configuration control and visible feedback that I was looking for.
If you're interested in the details, they are discussed here (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5942). (My first post in that thread makes me look like a bit of a doofus, because when I wrote it I didn't realize that version 7.6 included the tweak that addressed most of my concerns. But such is life...) :) |
Post by spacekdet // Jul 27, 2008, 7:23pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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I sometimes think the default icon placement was artistically inspired.
Yeah, inspired (http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/pollock_jackson.html) by Jackson Pollock (http://www.jacksonpollock.org/), but still...;)
Good thing is, with a little time and tweaking, you can make your own masterpiece. |
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