WORKFLOW Improvements

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WORKFLOW Improvements // Feature suggestions

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Post by frootee // Sep 19, 2008, 6:31am

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OK folks. The 7.61 patch is underway of course, as well all know; now is the time to get your Workflow improvements listed here please.


Froo

Post by hultek43 // Sep 19, 2008, 7:55am

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What did you have in mind ;-)? Lathe tool on the workspace side, fix bug which causes pointer to disappear (R-clicking in the stack view sometimes causes this). Create a script which will check to make sure you don't have stray 'junk' where it doesn't belong in the LE ;), orphans etc., display found items, allow choice from list then save/save as or delete.

Post by splinters // Sep 19, 2008, 8:42am

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I would like an option to launch to model side or workspace on first launch. Suprising how many of my students this tripped up.

Oh, and while you are at it, could the workspace menu (File/Help) be taken off the top when you switch to model side. All day the kids were trying to load their tS4 scenes through the workspace menu.....:(


Oh, there will be more...:)


I believe my relationship with Caligari has been a good one but I have no problem in offering up what improvements I wish to see. I, like many of you, are no longer part of an 'exclusive' small community of tS users...it is out there now for all to use, abuse, learn, ditch or whatever.

But it is still my app of choice at home and in the classroom so all improvements to workflow are welcome.

Post by Changa // Sep 19, 2008, 9:01am

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I need resizing tool working in one direction (model side like). It is one of the reason why I don't use workspace. Serious architectural project requires hundreds of resizing and workspace widget transforms these hundreds to thousands. I here typing of LE gurus -"it is already coded by ..." or even "you can code any custom widget yourself". Yes, I have spend 2 decades of my life writing software and probably I can, but I'm a user now, and don't want to put a brick onto accelerator insted of factory installed cruise control.

Sorry, please ascribe everything except the first sentence to "rants and raves". Just suggest this feature from Ts 7.1 times :(

Post by trueBlue // Sep 19, 2008, 9:05am

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Hey Paul,
I have a Model layout I created where I removed the Stack. I also modified the Model File menu and added Bridge/Auto/On/Off. If you close tS76 in this state (layout) upon rebooting shows tS76 in this state, It is very simular to tS6.6.

Post by splinters // Sep 19, 2008, 9:17am

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Sounds great Blue..can I get a copy?

Post by Emmanuel // Sep 19, 2008, 9:28am

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and added Bridge/Auto/On/Off


Cool !:jumpy:

I am very interested in that "stack View free" switch too !

Post by splinters // Sep 19, 2008, 10:00am

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If it helps at all, this is the way I introduced tS7.6 to a group of students who originally used tS4. I guess this might be a common occurence unless you bought into tS6 onwards.


1. Launch tS7.6

2. Find Stack (that menu there...no don't click on the objects...find settings tab!)

3. Turn bridge off ("why sir? what is a bridge? etc.")

4. Collapse the stack now by clicking on that little grey bar. "No, don't drag it..don't double click. You missed...try again!"

5. Explain why you won't be using that part of the UI anymore.

6. Dbl-click on the workspace toolbars to mimimise them...dont' ask why kids!

7. Find the model tab and switch over to model side.


Now, repeat 1-7 until all class now finally has model side open. Lesson is ticking on now but if I am lucky I can now show them how to set up the UI in model side and set some shortcuts (views etc.)


Lesson over....next time I will show you how to make a simple object.


Before you ask, I could set up a standard UI after loggin into each account (hundreds of them) and also go home with each student to make sure their home version was set up right...;)


I know this is about model side and workspace is the future but the school machines (and most of the students laptops) cannot run workspace side well enough as they are underpowered graphically. Add to this, their prior experience was with tS3 or 4 and it is simply too much to educate them in the workspace...especially as many tools we need are not in there. I also need access to the CAM machines and the export function is in the model side conversion plug-in.


There is no real point to be made here other than recounting my experience of teaching with tS..and I guess that would reflect the experience of many new users of tS7.6.


You can see why that layout of yours might help Trueblue...

Post by Igor K Handel // Sep 19, 2008, 10:24am

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all workspace side


PE mode ... would help if number of verts selected is shown as a number somewhere, in the info box or where ever. (an easy way to see before welding etc that no extra verts have sneeked into the selection)


User hotkeys sorted and remembered between sessions. Same user hotkeys for object and PE mode. IE views in particular.


Obj import / export direct to/from workspace side.


If a joint is selected in 3D it should ideally also be selected in Fcurve window.


Auto scaling of Fcurve window as it's too slow to keep right mousing, or typing numbers. Keep the manual option, but make default auto.


Scrollable fcurve channel list using the mouse scroll wheel or user hotkeys


Ability to quickly and EASILY kf only specific axis for rotation/translate/scale. Far too many static channels created at the minute.


A one button "remove static KF channels" ability.


That should do for a start :D


Cheers

IK

Post by rrf // Sep 19, 2008, 11:14am

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Total Posts: 319
I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but the workflow in Model side (PE) feels much faster than Workspace. Going through the 'drop down' menus slow things down for me. Tile's layout helps, but I love the big expansive work area of 6.6. That's why I like the idea of the 'pop-up, context sensitive' menus. Just my '2 cents'


Thanks for the Opportunity,

rf

Post by trueBlue // Sep 19, 2008, 6:40pm

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Here is the Model Layout that I was talking about:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=81495&postcount=1

Post by trueBlue // Sep 20, 2008, 10:49am

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I would like to see one toolbar, the NAV TOOLBAR, that had icons that opened other specialized toolbars. For instance one for Point Editor, Character Editor, Physics Editor, Animation Editor, Material Editor, and etc... This is the only toolbar that hides when you switch to Model so it makes sense to me that the NAV toolbar would be the ONE. Also I would like to see an Aspect toolbar in the Titlebar of all opened D3DViews where you could change IT'S Coordinates, Global rendering options, Grid options, Render tools, and the Eye tools. An Object Editor toolbar could have Select tool, Axis tools, Transform tools, Axis constraint tools, and Primitives tool.

Post by transient // Sep 20, 2008, 3:41pm

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I like it.


Much as the stack's performance has improved, an option like this would suit me. At the moment I don't like how the stack disappears my vray settings when I open the material editor etc.


I think this idea's a winner.:)

Post by transient // Oct 2, 2008, 1:33pm

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Request: at the moment the mesh-editor settings have seven sub-menus, which is a pain to navigate. I want to have them all in one menu (I can't find any way of doing this with the le).:)


I'm not sure if this is currently possible, but the ability to make custom menus, and to customise the stack (especially adding tabs) would be great. I also feel there is a lot of wasted space in the tabs bar at the top of the interface. I rarely change the layout, and I don't think the modeler workspace tabs need to be there (this could be changed to a window option - I know this is better for newbies as is, but I think they could be moved at least as an option).


Basically, I would much prefer to be able to use the tabs section for custom menus. So instead of right clicking on a tool and watching my render settings disappear on the stack, I could get a drop down menu. It would also be good if I could tear these tabs off and drop them in the workspace.


This isn't my idea, it's how an excellent 2d tool I use called Canvas works, and it's great. Truespace is already very close to Canvas in terms of workflow, it only needs these litle changes, and it will be right there. See image below of what I maen.

Post by trueBlue // Oct 2, 2008, 6:59pm

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You can Ctrl drag the Material Editor Settings panel out of the Stack. I created an Expanded aspect for the Material Editor Settings with all of the settings here:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=82806#post82806

Post by transient // Oct 2, 2008, 7:27pm

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You can Ctrl drag the Material Editor Settings panel out of the Stack.


That's what reminded me of canvas, although Canvas goes a step further by treating every function as tab, or an icon. Essentially, it's kind of a mix of 6.6 and 7.6. It would be great if the interface had it's own sdk, so this kind of thing could be user driven (assuming this can't happen already).


Thanks very much for the expanded mesh editor panel, it's perfect.:)

Post by trueBlue // Oct 2, 2008, 7:48pm

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Your welcome. The Tabs act as a File Load function. You could assign the Tabs to a trueSpace library of Objects, Scenes, Materials, and what not. So I suppose that it is not possible to run commands in this way. I agree with what you are suggesting though.

Post by RichLevy // Oct 3, 2008, 10:31am

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Sorry, I replied in the other thread... I see my question is answered right here... Nice job True


Rich

Post by RichLevy // Oct 3, 2008, 10:37am

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Here is a question, modeling in other programs one of the things I miss is a tweak tool when you are in PE mode... now I do not think we have such a beast, or am I missing something again? The ability to PE model moving vertices/polygons or edges with out having to resort to the Nav Widget in PE would be very cool.

Anyone know of such a tool?


Rich

Post by trueBlue // Oct 3, 2008, 12:42pm

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If I understand you correctly you can turn off the Point Edit Widget and use the Move, Rotate, and Scale tools along with the X,Y,Z locks.

Post by RichLevy // Oct 3, 2008, 1:22pm

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Does that require a widget? I don't see one, though what this is usually like you hit a keyboard key ("M" in XSI) and that allows you to pick an element and move it freehand with out the nav widget. (not just in x,y or z, by complete freehand move)
Does not sound like much, but it does streamline the workflow for organic modeling. It's surprising how many little things like this other programs have at the user's disposal, they don't seem like much untiul you do not have them.

Rich

Post by RichLevy // Oct 3, 2008, 2:01pm

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If I understand you correctly you can turn off the Point Edit Widget and use the Move, Rotate, and Scale tools along with the X,Y,Z locks.


OK, cool, I can just set up my own keyboard shortcut for any of the move, scale or rotate keys... I don't need the X, Y or Z locks... though they might come in handy as keyboard shortcuts also... OK, I'm good :) Nice of them to work inside the PE tools area.


Rich

Post by noko // Oct 3, 2008, 2:06pm

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The tab key turns on and off the Point Edit widget which if you want to use the move tools or rotate tools.

Post by RichLevy // Oct 3, 2008, 2:30pm

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Thanks... been doing lots of reading the last week... it doesn't help that the last beta ate up my 7.6 install though :) There are some good things... unfortunately I just need to find them and then get them associated with keys that I am used too...


I promise, no more questions or observations... I know you TS user's like to be separate from the rest of the 3D universe.


:D


Rich

Post by transient // Oct 3, 2008, 2:36pm

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Truespace does indeed have a tweak tool, but it's somewhat inconspicously called "select and move". Set the axis to screen space and tab off the widget and you have a tweak tool. I also sometimes use tangent space, but this is trickier. Tweaking is fairly advanced, you really have to know your 3d space fairly well or things can get ugly, but for me it's indespensible.


I use this tool more than any other.


FYI you can do this in gamespace as well by selecting the "dynapick" option in the preferences. 6.6's/ gamespace's modeling tools are very underrated, the trick is having a few plug-ins (like the ones from gamespace) and the knowledge. The crashing, however, is why I use workspace now.


There's nothing weird about truespace's modeling tools, I was watching a glen southern silo video recently and was keeping up easily.

Post by RichLevy // Oct 3, 2008, 3:25pm

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There's nothing weird about truespace's modeling tools, I was watching a glen southern silo video recently and was keeping up easily.

I am not sure I understand your tone... I am not attaching TS, I am merely bring up things I am trying to understand.
You certainly have your own opinion and to a certain extent I agree that some of the tools are there, but if the tools however few of them there may be are not there, it forces me to adapt my working style... to me that is not what I choose to do... so silly me, I ask questions and bring things up in hopes that if I am missing it I can be pointed to it, or maybe get the developer's interested in another feature...
I appologize to anyone who is offended by that... I am just trying to get up to speed and figure some things out.

BTW thanks for the mention of the tweek tool, I did find it after my previous post, it was not coming up in my searches so I did not find it forcing me to ask about it)

Rich

Post by transient // Oct 3, 2008, 4:20pm

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I was genuinely only trying to help (this time;)). Please note that I thoroughly agree with you on the benefits of a tweak tool, something not talked about much on this forum.


I've read my post again, and I can't see in any way how you think I was attacking you, I'm sorry if you think this.


I appologize to anyone who is offended by that... I am just trying to get up to speed and figure some things out.


There's no need to apologise, I'm sure you have very good reasons for doing things the way you do. Going form one app to another can be frustrating for this reason, which is why I'm trying to stick with one and make the best of it, and at the moment that's truespace.

Post by RichLevy // Oct 3, 2008, 4:31pm

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I was genuinely only trying to help (this time;)). Please note that I thoroughly agree with you on the benefits of a tweak tool, something not talked about much on this forum.


I've read my post again, and I can't see in any way how you think I was attacking you, I'm sorry if you think this.




There's no need to apologise, I'm sure you have very good reasons for doing things the way you do. Going form one app to another can be frustrating for this reason, which is why I'm trying to stick with one and make the best of it, and at the moment that's truespace.


Well, than that is over, somethings get lost in writing, so I was confused :) as is often the case for me... part of the aging process hehehe... might have been a tiny bit of carry over from a previous post :)


Tight budget is forcing me to work with what I got, as opposed to what I am used to... toys cost money and I made my choices, camera equipment came up over top of 3D software upgrades... I'll be using this program for a year or so...


Rich

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