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Catapult critique
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They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Catapult critique // Work in Progress
Post by MikeJoel // Sep 2, 2008, 2:32pm
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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There is something about this that is nagging me and I don't know what it is.
I disliked the fact that I waited till the end to put the wheels on and found there was no good place to mount the rear one. Normally a catapult doesn't have wheels but I thought it would be better to put them on since most would expect them.
The thing floating in the picture is not a rock or anything, just something I didn't delete before rendering.
Thanks for taking a look and any suggestions,
Mike |
Post by hultek43 // Sep 2, 2008, 2:45pm
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hultek43
Total Posts: 234
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The wood looks way too smooth and straight to have been hewn by hand. The wood should be grimed up and roughened if possible. Pivotal point looks sort of small to me and I think it has your rope texture on it. |
Post by kena // Sep 2, 2008, 3:23pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Your base frame is too short. And your uprights should not be centered.
Here are som images to help you out.
http://www.gadgetvenue.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/desk-catapult.jpg
http://www.itl.nist.gov/div898/handbook/pri/section4/gifs/catapult.gif
http://bp1.blogger.com/_2NHTwh3mU6E/ReL0gB0BToI/AAAAAAAAADc/jMCXjLS-CrM/s1600-h/exploded+catapult.jpg
http://www.geminitwin.com/images/catapult_2007.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/meta/catapult.jpg |
Post by clintonman // Sep 2, 2008, 3:24pm
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clintonman
Total Posts: 304
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It looks like the wheels on one side has shiny metal bands and the bands on the other side are not shiny. |
Post by MikeJoel // Sep 2, 2008, 4:21pm
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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Thanks for all the pointers.
http://www.dugnorth.com/blog/uploaded_images/Final_Antique_Catapult-764199.jpg
Here is the picture I loosely based my model on.
Mike |
Post by Weevil // Sep 3, 2008, 7:02am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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^err...that's a toy y'know^
But anyway, aside from the pointers above they're really nice things you've made there |
Post by MikeJoel // Sep 3, 2008, 8:14am
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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A TOY! (joking)
Yeah. I looked a number of real ones and found this had the basic structure and was easy to see. So I used it just to base the basics on.
Thanks.
I did beef up the members a little. If I went further it started looking to heavy. Also used a more rugged texture and bumpmap. |
Post by W!ZARD // Sep 3, 2008, 10:35am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Well I like it! First thing I would do is to rotate your wheels - it looks wrong having them so neatly lined up. They should all be at random rotations.
Secondly, though I'm not an expert on medieval siege weapons I think the proportions of the base look .... unnatural somehow. I'd expect the base to be longer and narrower.
The wood is looking better but still lacks a sufficiently 'rough hewn' look IMO.
Hope this helps.
Oh yeah - try putting a simple character next to it purely to get a better idea of the size. Try also rendering it from what would be natural eye height when standing nearby - this can often give you insight into how it might look. |
Post by Breech Block // Sep 3, 2008, 11:09am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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In general terms, I think your model is quite impressive and you have certainly packed in quite a bit of detail. However, I must agree with the previous comments and say that it certainly looks like it has just come off the production line; and been made by the finest carpenters and blacksmiths in the land. Now I'm no expert in seige weaponry, but my understanding of them is this. The weapons were designed and perfected by the militarys tob boffins and then plans were drawn up and disseminated so that even the most basic foot soldier could hack up a few trees and put one together, a 100 BC version of an Ikea flat pack if you will. Bearing this in mind, in addition to the weapon being crudley built, it would also be of the smallest dimensions possible to achieve the task as time and resources may both be in short supply on the battlefield. |
Post by MikeJoel // Sep 3, 2008, 11:40am
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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Thanks all. I think I have pushed the bumpmap to the limit of trying to rag it up without making it look more like worms have got to it.
The only thing I can think of doing is to actually cut the mesh up to simulate ax marks.
How do you go about doing it without hacking up the mesh?
Mike |
Post by kena // Sep 3, 2008, 12:50pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Make the front a bit longer... but keep the rest there. With the wheels bracketing the arm of the device so perfectly, it looks like too much tension could cause the whole thing to flip forward when fired. Adding length to the front would give it a lower center of gravity and more stability. |
Post by MikeJoel // Sep 3, 2008, 4:21pm
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MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
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How is that. (except for texture)
I extended the front and repositioned the wheel. Also adjusted the thickness of the wheels to make them more hefty. Extended the launch pole a little taller. Beefed up some of the beams. Retextured the wheels and rotated them.
What do you think? |
Post by kena // Sep 3, 2008, 4:40pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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better. I would move the front wheels forward another wheel length. (so you have to extend the frame a bit more.
Raise the central poll a bit more so you do not hit your rope on the upright and wear one or the other away. Then I think that would be the only things I would have to say about it. ;) |
Post by W!ZARD // Sep 3, 2008, 6:10pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Definitely better. Now I would chamfer some of those hard corners - specially on the cross members of the chassis. This will give you better render results and help break up the 'fresh from the sawmill' look of your timbers.
I'd also be tempted to add some variation from side to side - anything to give more of a adzed look rather than the sawn look it has now.
Also add some accessories, dahlink!!;) Some torches for lighting the old flaming pitch balls, spare ropes and straps, an ax, some stakes for pegging it to the ground, some extension handle pieces to make it easier to turn for aiming of towing behind a team of horses perhaps. Some leather sheilds to protect the crew from enemy arrows - that sort of thing. It's little details that sell the big picture. |
Post by Grommit // Sep 4, 2008, 10:55pm
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Grommit
Total Posts: 32
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Hi MikeJoel,
My suggestion would be to look at the whole picture in context. Your texturing gives visual clues that the model is full size, rather than a toy. The ground looks like grass, and the grain in the wood textures make the timbers look large. Yet the camera angle gives the opposite visual clues. This angle would only be seen if either the catapult is very small, or if the viewer were on a large hill far away using a very long range lens. The result is that the timbers running parallel to each other don't converge to the horzion very much.
So I would say that an improvement to the image would be to clarify whether it's supposed to be small or full sized. If full sized then you could show that by moving the camera closer and using a wider angle lens to increase the perspective effects. I'm not quite sure how you would does this in TS, but photographically, that's what I would do - so that all of the size clues match up.
Lovely model :) |
Post by Weevil // Sep 5, 2008, 1:20am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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To answer your question about hacking up the mesh...I think...you don't. You would generally have to get squares, put them at a 45 angle and lop bits off in random places...It's horrible if you're modelling in wireframe though...
EDIT: Actually, I think you can get peeling look by making some very thin squares and extruding them out in a curling shape so it looks like it's peeling...you'd just have to remember to apply the same texture and have the same UV map (in position, rotation, scale (I'd glue 'em on and re-apply the map)) |
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