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Memory Leak After Three Frames Rendered
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Memory Leak After Three Frames Rendered // Bugs
Post by weaveribm // Jul 16, 2007, 2:43am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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I am becoming fed up of this problem where TS7.51 runs out of memory space, using >1.672GB of system RAM on my 2GB XP Home system
I re-installed TS7.51 and ran a Vray animation which rendered only three frames before TS crashed with the error shown below in the screengrab
The thing is I know it's going to crash and I'm squeezing out a couple of frames at a time it's very stressful. Watching the system memory being gobbled up by TS7.51 is no fun any more please do something to fix this Caligari Support
I sent an error logfile to you last week by email as advised in the error dialog on crashing but I've not heard anything back from you, I'll send this one the standard way too please look into this?
Since then I've moved to XP from Vista and re-installed 7.51 but still the same problem
Surely TS7.51 can clear memory in the standard garbage collection routines when it's rendered a frame?
Need help, please advise.
Caligari TS7.51 crash dump attached in case the attachment here doesn't work... available for one week
http://download.yousendit.com/D410BB3E4FCF1182 (http://download.yousendit.com/D410BB3E4FCF1182)
Coincidentally when looking to send the email crash report while I'm doing this I see you've just answered Paul thanks. Can someone please look at this one because there's time pressure and it's tough to wait when the problem seems so egregious and stress-making.
Peter
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/Mington/TS7.51memory_runs_out_three_frames_rendered.jpg |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 16, 2007, 7:11am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Could just be on scenes having LightMap as secondary GI. Too good-looking to pass up :)
Peter |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 16, 2007, 8:05am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Yes only 530MB in use in a Vray animation without toggling LightMap secondary GI
Pity because it's very nice for interior lighting
But on the plus side forced (in a good way) to use Vray cameras and materials, Workspace is starting to look better by the minute and the Vray animation desk works nicely once you work out to click on the camera's tripod to select it :)
I only know this from reading stuff in here and inwardly digested for future reference thanks 7.51 Pioneers!
Peter |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 16, 2007, 1:06pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Not directly LightMap to blame then the same TS7.51 crash again tonight 30 frames into a run with system memory devoured by Workspace animation (flythrough only) this time rather than from Modelside render animation. This time the crash was from Workspace rendering from a Workspace camera
Crash file sent to Caligari support with a description
Fresh install of TS7.51 this morning and crashing predictably. Not good.
Peter |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 16, 2007, 7:13pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Weaverbim,
You may want to have Task Manager open when rendering so you can monitor memory usage. I've found that the current version of VRay is very memory hungry and since tS is only a 32bit app, soon as it approaches 1.6G or so out of memory and BAMM.
Not much we can do about that except ditch legacy Model-side and go full bore 64-bit. Course that would require all users to install 64 bit OS's as well... I wonder what to community would think about if TS went 64 bit...?
It'll be good to see at what part of the render the memory is being being gobbled up at though. Might be a leak and something that could be fixed in a new VRay release...
-Jack. |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 16, 2007, 11:24pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Hi Jack thanks for replying mate I'm having a nightmare :)
I remain equable about it with some people not having clean drinking water, it's just that it's an awkward time as I'm working with other people on the project: not commercial or anything so not too hassled
You may want to have Task Manager open when rendering so you can monitor memory usage. I've found that the current version of VRay is very memory hungry and since tS is only a 32bit app, soon as it approaches 1.6G or so out of memory and BAMM.
I do have Task Manager open when rendering Jack, that's how I know about system memory running out. This from my initial post
I am becoming fed up of this problem where TS7.51 runs out of memory space, using >1.672GB of system RAM on my 2GB XP Home system
Not much we can do about that except ditch legacy Model-side and go full bore 64-bit. Course that would require all users to install 64 bit OS's as well... I wonder what to community would think about if TS went 64 bit...?
To test the Modelspace/Workspace thing I ran the animation under full-on Workspace Jack, knowing that Caligari support might be interested to see if this problem is associated with Modelspace "Have you tried Workspace?" - to save time :)
...system memory devoured by Workspace animation (flythrough only) this time rather than from Modelside render animation. This time the crash was from Workspace rendering from a Workspace camera
I've been checking prices for another 2GB system RAM for the last few days and pondering on installing Vista 64bit I've got the upgrade DVD...
What do you think Jack, do you think that I'm experiencing normal behaviour and if I had 4GB RAM in there TS7.51 would not eventually gobble up 4GB? I'm not sure either, it's gobbled up 2GB quite quickly... hard to tell right now that's the dilemma. No I won't quote you I'm talking to a friend in the pub no blame attaches :)
That's the thing, to find out why so much memory and-climbing is needed for a 30 frame animation run over a reasonably simple Vray scene. Memory appears to need garbage collection there's no reason that I can consider for needing all that memory. Other than to hold on to the used memory space and data to save reloading the same data of course
For truly massive scenes perhaps but then if say 3GB was in use it should not grow without limit. At the moment I can't tell if TS7.51 will go on to soak up the four gigabytes and then keep asking for more, do you see what I'm getting at?
Perhaps if Caligari (which recommends far less system RAM than I have installed) could say that adding 2 more expensive gigabytes of system RAM will help then that would be interesting. My scene isn't all that big I'm a beginner it's only the one room interior with a few chairs and tables... (sorry for stressing those points in colour Jack but some points are more important than some other points to bring to Caligari support's attention so forgive) :)
It'll be good to see at what part of the render the memory is being being gobbled up at though. Might be a leak and something that could be fixed in a new VRay release...
Yes I'm reasonably sure that the problem is a 'memory leak' or more properly garbage collection appears to be broken - this important point means that I worry that 4GB may not help, 4GB may also be gobbled up Jack, see the dilemma :)
With each frame rendered system memory in use climbs by can-be around 400MB - see my original header 3 frames. And with the next frame another half a gigabyte. The last frame's data appears not to be reclaimed for the system and then it's dominos all the way up to the crash
Very much appreciate your interest Jack thanks mate, yes I'm sure that it'll get fixed eventually. Meanwhile I'll recreate the scene and try different conditions, see if something pops up as a likely suspect. I'm using bitmaps here and there for example, I'll drop them one by one and see if anything happens - that sort of thing. Try to get hard data. Bit awkward at the moment though as we're waiting on some animation clips otherwise it would be more enjoyable winkling out the bug. Or not bug of course, I assume nothing :)
I've got the Vista 64bit upgrade DVD Jack, still pondering on going 64bit but it's sounding likely right now, too good to miss: we would have killed for a 64bit operating system back in the day. PC owners I mean :)
I'm a bit suspicious about area lights in general Jack and how hard they make TS work. Is there a substitute perhaps for Workspace that I could try which might be less hard work for TS? I bet I'm making area lights too big or something, beginner's mistake could be
Peter |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 16, 2007, 11:43pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Nope. 4GB RAM won't help. TS can only use 2GB of memory space because it's currently 32bit (both Workspace and Model side).
Theoretically going to Vista x64 will give your other apps more room though so that TS can use the whole 2 GB. I'm still crashing out around 1.6-1.8 GB, but I only have 2GB installed so you might be able to get a little bit of extra room with 4GB and x64... but it's not going to be much.
The only solution is for Caligari to license a 64 bit version of the VRay engine and for TS to go 64 bit too.
Edit: forgot to note that I see the same extreme memory usage climbing on still renders. Usually during the caustics calculations. So it's not specifically related to animation. I'd be interested to know if you're seeing the amount of ram used grow additively or only slightly per frame? Since my guess is that Vray clears and reallocates between frames.
Edit2: ok I'm not reading clearly today ignore the above edit. :)
-Jack. |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 16, 2007, 11:48pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Update Jack :)
I looked for a bamboo shot just now and something started ticking over...
I remember now seeing two black dots near one of the windows in this troublesome scene. Bit odd but I ignored them. Now I've had coffee and on the ball more I've remembered what those black dots are. They are very tiny high-poly-count 3D plant objects that I bought and were going to be sitting on the windowsills maybe. I thought I'd deleted the 3D plant objects but in my mind's eye I know that this is what the black dots are
I'm thinking maybe they're gumming up the works somehow by being high-poly but very very tiny. And that after I delete them tonight TS will not have the problem. Look a man can dream :)
This place is so good for bouncing ideas around thanks again Jack. And the hair image poster too if this works out :)
Peter |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 16, 2007, 11:57pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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About the arealights, you could try spot lights or point light arrays instead. The soft shadows option can give some nice results when you up the number of samples and the size setting to remove the speckling. I usually use a setting somewhere around 100 samples and .15 size. It all depends on how crisp you need the shadows. Higher size blurs the shadows more, so for projects where you need crisp shadows you need to add enough samples so that you don't have to raise the size as high.
-Jack. |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 17, 2007, 12:00am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Nope. 4GB RAM won't help. TS can only use 2GB of memory space because it's currently 32bit (both Workspace and Model side).
Ah thanks mate that's saved a few quid :)
Theoretically going to Vista x64 will give your other apps more room though so that TS can use the whole 2 GB. I'm still crashing out around 1.6-1.8 GB, but I only have 2GB installed so you might be able to get a little bit of extra room with 4GB and x64... but it's not going to be much.
That's it you've done it now Jack I'm going to do the 64bit thing when I get home. Pioneers us. What can go wrong? Ok that's a definite maybe then :)
Edit: forgot to note that I see the same extreme memory usage climbing on still renders. Usually during the caustics calculations. So it's not specifically related to animation. I'd be interested to know if you're seeing the amount of ram used grow additively or only slightly per frame? Since my guess is that Vray clears and reallocates between frames.
You see it too aagghh mayday mayday :)
Memory grows with each Vray 720x404 render and does not decrease which is what we would expect after a rendered animation frame is output. The memory used that can be discarded safely should be released yes and that's definitely not happening
Thanks Jack. I'll keep an eye on the amount of memory being grabbed over time. The amount it grows frame-by-frame is very large each time
Ironically I have 768MB local RAM going spare on my graphics card :)
Peter |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 17, 2007, 12:06am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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About the arealights, you could try spot lights or point light arrays instead. The soft shadows option can give some nice results when you up the number of samples and the size setting to remove the speckling. I usually use a setting somewhere around 100 samples and .15 size. It all depends on how crisp you need the shadows. Higher size blurs the shadows more, so for projects where you need crisp shadows you need to add enough samples so that you don't have to raise the size as high.
Lovely thanks ever so much Jack I'll try this. It came to me that area lights may be hundreds of tiny lights each of which's rays needs tracking. Nice glow from windows to interiors but I suspect them of treasonable activity I'll try to do without them for testing
Peter |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 17, 2007, 12:26am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Ah for windows you could simplify it even further and use an infinite or directional light to simulate the sun. :)
-Jack. |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 17, 2007, 12:44am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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I have an Inflight for the sunbeams Jack but I don't think it gets the glow working. Will check that, it would simplify things thanks again!
Peter
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/Mington/VrayCameraCheckingMovementFOV0.7.jpg |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 17, 2007, 1:04am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Hmm... two thoughts to that one:
1.) put a cube with the background image outside the window and bounce a directional light off of it. You'll probably have to up the Secondary bounce for your GI to get that to work well.
or
2.) Use a background image with a bright enough horizon and the GI should take care of it.
If you use HDRI instead of a background image, make sure to uncheck the "Env lighting only" box so that your lights still show up. Of course HDRI is killer when it comes to memory usage...
-Jack. |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 17, 2007, 1:22am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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1.) put a cube with the background image outside the window and bounce a directional light off of it. You'll probably have to up the Secondary bounce for your GI to get that to work well.
Very interesting this Jack. I do have a background image outside the window with a bright area of sky but I didn't think that light bounced off the image (I now use a spotlight for that instead of a huge area light earlier) would be raytraced into the room... making untested assumptions I was. I did have an over-bright render at one point...
or
2.) Use a background image with a bright enough horizon and the GI should take care of it.
Nice will experiment!
If you use HDRI instead of a background image, make sure to uncheck the "Env lighting only" box so that your lights still show up. Of course HDRI is killer when it comes to memory usage...
I didn't get on with HDRI when I tried it, the light is usually coloured and looks bad and it appears that it's meant more for a car sitting alone on a stand, studio shots. Might come back to it though :)
Jack you're very helpful and supportive I'm feeling heaps better- thanks a million there's a cold beer or two here for you just say the word :)
Peter |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 17, 2007, 1:54am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Thought you guys across the pond like your beer warm?! ;)
It helps to turn the saturation and intensity down a fair bit, but the settings vary wildly depending on the individual HDRI file. For my chess piece rendering I used a saturation of 1.6 and reflection intensity .1 and intensity .8
Lowering the saturation closer to 1.0 should give a more real world saturation.
Also once you get the intensity and reflection right, don't forget to up the samples a fair bit (30 or 50 at least) to get a much better render.
-Jack. |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 17, 2007, 5:04am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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I'm very encouraged Jack thanks mate. In work here I did a small Vray render and took out the area lights, made sure just the one-sun Inflight in there and was gobsmacked to see GI working on the Inflight... bouncing around in the interior
I thought I had to use area lights to get GI bouncing doh! :) (I note your advice to use the exterior bitmap to bounce the diffuse-outside light into the interior)
Well aware of the famous last words curse "This will work..." but leaving work early to try this at home. If my boss asks I'm blaming you! :)
Peter |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 17, 2007, 5:34am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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LOL best of luck! :)
-Jack. |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 17, 2007, 7:33am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Looking good Jack
No I mean the render already looks better after a quick test with just the Inflight than with those area lights mate which I dumped, and now quite quick to render. 900MB in use (Vista) but after rendering a frame memory used went down a bit. That's new :)
I love you man that's twice you've sorted out intractable problems I've run into thanks!
I notice that Vray now creates those lovely star-like blobs while it's checking surfaces. Haven't seen them for ages either... whole thing seems to have sprung to life. It can still all go wrong mind with me at the helm please don't leave the country :)
Peter |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 17, 2007, 9:53am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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For probable :) closure on this user-induced fiasco :)
Vray camera now happily cranking out 17 frames/hour and with 7.51 only using ~520MB under XP
Area lights don't you just hate them :)
Peter |
Post by weaveribm // Jul 24, 2007, 11:32pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Update: probably caused by incorrect settings for the operating system's pagefile. No pagefile means everything must happen within system RAM. With the pagefile work is slower but system memory then has a horizon that stretches as far as the horizon or 3TB whichever comes first
I've clued up that weaveribm bloke, he promises to improve :)
Peter |
Post by Blue Bellyfluff // Apr 23, 2008, 8:51pm
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Blue Bellyfluff
Total Posts: 19
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I had a similar problem where it said "the system had run out of memory".
Tried 64bit, extra memory etc...nothing worked.
Turned out it was due to an object with bad geometry causing TS to crash...deleted the object and it all rendered out perfect. |
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