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WireFrame Mode
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Post by Steinie // Jul 27, 2008, 7:58am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I have noticed that when changing Scene Modes (example opaque mode to wireframe mode) that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. What I found is that if I play with the mode settings in the "Stack" the focus remains on the Stack. Now when I select the different Mode Icons located at the bottom of screen nothing happens. (Because the focus is still on the Stack)
When I click within the scene the Icons now works.
Very confusing to the user. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 27, 2008, 8:59am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I agree, Steinie. You'll notice that this is true for all the tools on the main toolbar. That they are active window context sensitive. The VRay render tools have been made a bit more intelligent in 7.6 though and should pick one of the 3DViews to render from if a non-3D view is currently active. A similar solution could be useful for other tools as well, since in the default layout there is clearly a "main" 3D view window. Defnitely something to bug the devs about. ;) |
Post by Electric Jim // Jul 27, 2008, 2:53pm
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Electric Jim
Total Posts: 98
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Edit: After writing the following post, I discovered that in tS7.6, when we modify the contents of a 3D window's toolbar, the "template" controlling the toolbars of subsequently-displayed 3D windows does get modified. (This didn't seem to be the case, in tS7.51.) Therefore, except for the point in the final paragraph about having a 3D window become "active" whenever one of its toolbar icons is clicked, most of this post becomes rather redundant (because now I can perform the customizations I was requesting, and have them "stick"). I decided to leave this post here anyway -- even though, as I mention in the EDIT below, it makes me look rather "doofusy" -- just in case anyone else has any opinions regarding the preferred default locations for the various tools. ...Uh, that's all, I guess. Carry on. :)
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I commented about this a few weeks ago in the context of the icons for selecting between Perspective, Front, Left, etc. views. (I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth, given that tS7.6 addresses so much stuff and is now free, but I was kindasorta hoping this issue would be addressed in this upgrade. Such is life.) :o
At the risk of being annoyingly persistent about what is admittedly not a huge issue, I'll take this opportunity to reiterate the following opinion: I really think that, from a standpoint of understandability (especially now, with all the new users), those icons which apply to one 3D window at a time should be duplicated in each 3D window, rather than residing along the bottom of the overall tS window with the "common" tools. Such icons should control (and, importantly, indicate) the configuration of only the 3D window in which they appear. Because this is not done, there's not currently a good way to tell how a given 3D window is configured. For the Wire Frame -vs- Solid View icons this may not be such a big deal, because the current selection is generally clear by looking at the contents of the window itself. But for the Perspective -vs- Front -vs- Left -vs- etc. icons, it is a big deal, because there's no way to unambiguously tell precisely which view a given 3D window is displaying in all cases. And that's downright confusing, at times. (And this problem would not be addressed by leaving such icons unduplicated in the "common" area and merely making them intelligent enough to remember which 3D window was last active. As long as they are not duplicated with each 3D window, the inability to determine the configuration of that window at a glance exists.)
I also tend to think that those icons which apply no matter what 3D view is active should be down along the bottom of the overall tS window in the "common" area, not duplicated in each 3D window. I don't think we really gain anything by duplicating these icons in each 3D window, and it lends a touch of confusability (is that a word...?) to the interface to have certain tools separated out from the "common" tools, for reasons that I can only conclude are arbitrary. (If users subsequently want to duplicate icon locations as part of their own personal workflow customizations, then they can. But having the default configuration be arbitrary in this way just strikes me as an unfortunate choice.)
And yes, I realize it is possible to customize a given instance of a toolbar, so one could simply say, "Okay, Electric Jim. Just customize your own configuration and stop bothering us". :) But I don't know of a way to change the "template" of the toolbar that automatically appears with each new 3D window that is displayed, so that each new 3D window I display comes up with its toolbar already having the modified configuration.
EDIT: Oops, I see that now the "template" does appear to get changed when I modify an existing 3D window's toolbar. This didn't seem to be the case in tS7.51. Wow, yet another great tweak in tS7.6 by the guys at Caligari. Which I didn't notice before typing all this stuff. And making myself look rather like a doofus. Hmmm. Well, uh, just ignore most of this post, then, I guess, since I can just customize things as I want... <Shifts uncomfortably from foot to foot while staring at the floor and feeling like a bit of a doofus.>
Finally: I see that if a given 3D window is not already the active one (as indicated by its title bar being a lighter shade of blue), clicking one of the icons in its toolbar does not make it the active window. So, even when I experimentally add the Perspective/Front/Left/etc. icons to each individual 3D window's toolbar, if one 3D window is active and I click on (say) the Perspective icon in a different 3D window, it changes the configuration not of that window, but of the active window. Which is extremely counter-intuitive behavior. Therefore, I also think it's very desirable for tS to make a given 3D window the "active" one whenever one of the tools in that window's toolbar is clicked.
...Wow, this is a pretty long post. Hmmm. Well, it's not as if I didn't warn ya that I was going to be annoyingly persistent, is it...? :) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 27, 2008, 3:38pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Good post Electric Jim! LOL, I'd never really thought about it that way.
I think a good compromise would be to move the wireframe/shaded/etc flyout and the Perspective/Left/Right/etc flyout and integrate them into the window title bar like the 1D/2D/3D/4D menu. Then they could visibly indicate the mode and also be keyed to work on their selected window. The same could also be done with the render icons, which interestingly to note is the way it was done on Model-side.
My guess for the reason for having multiple edit bars is that it keeps the edit tools nearby in the view window where the editing is done. Which I appreciate since I use a mouse and icon approach to working instead of hotkeys. |
Post by Heidi // Jul 27, 2008, 3:39pm
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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Um... I'm going to give you a word of warning on customizations...
SAVE your LAYOUT... :)
If for any reason you have to Reset to Default Context, you'll lose your customizations. The reset does just that. Even links to outside libraries in the Library Browser need to be re-established.
I have my layouts saved in ethe RS Main Libraries\Layouts and Configurations folder. That way they show up as tabs at the top of my TS window. Then if I have to reset, my layout is just the click of a tab away. :) |
Post by Electric Jim // Jul 27, 2008, 5:20pm
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Electric Jim
Total Posts: 98
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Thanks for the tip, Heidi! I just saved my default layout as you suggest, "just in case". :)
Jack: Yeah, I figured the "ease of access" thing would be the main reason many people would like the tools there. I also tend to avoid hotkeys, myself -- though I'm a bit more amenable to the idea of them since playing around with Blender a while back -- but I get more out of having "a [single] place for everything and everything in its place" so I can remember exactly one place to find it. (My inherently anal retentive nature, I'm guessing.) :rolleyes: I like your idea about integrating the view and render selections into the window's title bar. Something for Caligari to consider for the next rev. :) |
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