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Material Editor / Library bug

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Material Editor / Library bug // Bugs

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Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Sep 25, 2008, 7:27am

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Workspace side using Vray.


Material library, right click, insert - does not insert the material that is set up in the material editor. It inserts the material of the currently selected object. If no object selected, you can't insert anything. How dumb is that. It should insert the material set up in the Material Editor.

Post by Emma // Sep 25, 2008, 8:03am

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This is the same behavior that you will find when using right mouse click-insert for a selected object in the scenery or the whole scenery. If you want a materiel which you just set up in ME you will have to put it on any object.

If you then use right mosue/insert in the material library, the context of the library will control that the material of the object ist placed into the material library

Post by TomG // Sep 25, 2008, 9:04am

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Yes, the libaries load and save to the scene, not to the ME (double click in library doesnt load it in the ME, it places it on the object; a mirror of what you see here).


Personally I like the idea of being able to put things into / take things out of the ME itself, at least as an option.


Thanks!

Tom

Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Sep 25, 2008, 12:09pm

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Sorry Tom, but you're actually wrong! They do load to the ME. Double clicking a shader I've set up in my library loads it into the ME, whether an object is selected or not (even with no object at all).


Not saving the shader set up that is in the Material Editor into the Material Library is, quite frankly, stupid. Sorry to be blunt but I can't think of any other way of putting it. Just one more example of trueSpace taking several steps when only one is needed. Are you sure that this software gets checked before it's released? Heck, I can't believe it got programmed this way in the first place, it just doesn't make any logical sense.

Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Sep 25, 2008, 1:45pm

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Just fiddling with this. double clicking the shader in the Mat Lib loads it into the Material Editor AND paints it onto the selected object. Not real handy if I only want to paint certain parts of it with a different paint. Which leads me onto; what are you supposed to do when an object has more than one material? It only inserts the base (first) into the MatLib. How are you supposed to save your various paints? Dropper pick the colour, paint onto dummy cube, insert into Material Library, reselect original object, select next colour, repaint dummy object, insert.... and so on and so on????

Post by trueBlue // Sep 25, 2008, 2:45pm

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You can right click the Material in the Library and select Load which loads the material into the Material Library without painting a selected object. Same with painting faces in with which you Load the Material and then use the Paint Faces tool. I made an object that makes it easier to select and Inspect various colors if needed. HTH
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=80180&postcount=1 (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=80180&postcount=1)

Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Sep 25, 2008, 3:06pm

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It's one way of almost getting it to work right but it's still a workaround for something that is so basic it shouldn't need one. trueSpace constantly gives the impression of being 'almost'. It's so close to being a great programme but constantly stumbles or falls over at the simplest of hurdles. Just a little thought is all that's needed to the implementation, it's sad that it isn't.

Post by transient // Sep 25, 2008, 4:11pm

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I have to say I completely disagree with this.


The method you've suggested is anarchic, far worse than the one that's there. Loading the material editor texture straight in to the libraray using the insert tool would be erratic as it contradicts how insert works everywhere else.


Maybe having an option in the pop-up menu to "insert from material editor" would be an option, but it's an extremely trivial thing to complain about imo.

Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Sep 25, 2008, 4:18pm

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Trivial? Hardly. It's a basic function that doesn't work properly. Inserting into the Material Library from the Material Editor is the most logical thing. Inserting from selected object isn't. If it has multiple materials applied then short of the dropper tool, paint dummy object, insert that, repeat, method you can't save the material. THAT is not trivial.

Post by trueBlue // Sep 25, 2008, 4:23pm

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Sorry but I have to agree the Surfacing workflow in tS7.6 needs improvement. One thing that is helpful as well is to Dock your Materials along side the Stack.

Post by transient // Sep 25, 2008, 5:52pm

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Trivial? Hardly. It's a basic function that doesn't work properly. Inserting into the Material Library from the Material Editor is the most logical thing. Inserting from selected object isn't. If it has multiple materials applied then short of the dropper tool, paint dummy object, insert that, repeat, method you can't save the material. THAT is not trivial.


If you want if save multiple materials, you can just put them on an object and save that, and use the pick material tool to edit them later.


Again, I'm not really sure why this is such a big deal, but my opinions don't matter, obviously.;)


I don't mind if Calgari make an "insert from material editor" option, but please don't break the insert function, thanks.


Sorry but I have to agree the Surfacing workflow in tS7.6 needs improvement. One thing that is helpful as well is to Dock your Materials along side the Stack.



I do agree that workspace could do many things better. The problem is the stack itself, and the religious idea in ts that it should handle everything, as I've complained about before. Frankly, though, I get the feeling Caligari are committed to it, so I've decided not to worry about it and move on.


Trueblue, if you get the chance try to play 3dsmax's material editor, it was always very nice (I haven't looked at it for the past couple of versions, hopefully it hasn't changed too much). It combines the library and material editor, and is very usable. it also handles sub-object materials well.


Node-based materials have became the vogue, but I thought it was very nice (not sure about the latest version, I may have to download it and take a look).

Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Sep 26, 2008, 12:13am

TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
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If you want if save multiple materials, you can just put them on an object and save that, and use the pick material tool to edit them later.


Yes, you can, but that defeats the object of a material library. To re-use materials you've created in the past, you have to also reload the model, colour pick the material from it, apply it to the part of your new model, then repeat over and over for each different material. Yes, it's a way of doing it but it's far from being the most straight forward. It's like having a car that only turns left, it can go right by making three left turns but why can't I just turn right in the first place?


Having them all saved in a material library to start with is far, far more sensible.


I never said your opinions don't matter, quite where you got that from I'm not sure, it's just that on this occassion I think you are wrong.

Post by Steinie // Sep 26, 2008, 1:27am

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"Maybe having an option in the pop-up menu to "insert from material editor" would be an option, but it's an extremely trivial thing to complain about imo."


No it is not trivial it is a work flow issue.

I actually wish it would work the way the Witch describes and have an option to change it. Both of you have very valid points.

Post by TomG // Sep 26, 2008, 4:02am

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Well, I've had users really struggle, where they wanted to put a roof texture onto a building where they had done the walls... and oh dear, they've painted the entire object with the roof and lost the walls. And they are not the only one (as we can see here) - and if customers struggle, it's time to rethink what is happening.


I've really struggled myself, having to create temporary objects to paint textures onto etc. Anyway, the request went in to the devs yesterday to allow moving materials to and from the ME, so we'll see what happens :) Making the request is not a guarantee of acceptance and getting it done of course, but I'm putting the idea forward.


HTH!

Tom

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