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no truespace?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
no truespace? // Rants and Raves
Post by GraySho // Mar 10, 2006, 8:33am
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GraySho
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If the 7.1 release can give tS come competent, reliable and easy to use animation features (and tS users start sharing character animations) interest in tS will skyrocket.
If 7.1 doesn't deliver that, expect opinions to lower and penetration into the market to be even harder. You can't expect to take over the industry if your program only does half of what the competition does.
Not only that I fear. As long as the whole toolset (with additions) isn't integrated into player I don't see a chance to win new market.
Why should one invest into a new application that is basically the same as the previous version with a player window, which does basically nothing but showing things different than modeler?
Scripting is nothing new either, and the big studios write their own set of tools anyway.
If caligari wants to get into a new league, they either have to convince people to share the same vision for truespace, or they have to wait unil they complete ts7. |
Post by Naes3d // Mar 10, 2006, 8:56am
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What a lovely visual. LOL
*dumps cornflakes*
Anyhow, regardless of what has happened in the past, above par character animation can still save tS. I hope.
The 3 things I have been looking for in a 3D app have been mirror modelling, cloth simulation and decent character animation. With those 3 things I think I can take off. Technically I have that solution now, but in multiple apps and I would rather have it in one. CKGame Factory has a cloth sim but I have pretty much never seen anything done with it and have not been able to grokk the tutorial with the demo.
Anyway, character animators will save tS! I hope... |
Post by Naes3d // Mar 10, 2006, 9:00am
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Not only that I fear. As long as the whole toolset (with additions) isn't integrated into player I don't see a chance to win new market.
Why should one invest into a new application that is basically the same as the previous version with a player window, which does basically nothing but showing things different than modeler?
Scripting is nothing new either, and the big studios write their own set of tools anyway.
If caligari wants to get into a new league, they either have to convince people to share the same vision for truespace, or they have to wait unil they complete ts7.
Yeah, I said that before in the old forum. Roman yelled at me...
But if Caligari wants to put all their eggs in one basket, character animation is the way to go. With good CA people might be willing to wait for each $1XX.99 point upgrade to add the rest of the tools. |
Post by Tiles // Mar 10, 2006, 9:04am
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.... If caligari wants to get into a new league, they either have to convince people to share the same vision for truespace, or they have to wait unil they complete ts7.
That´s the whole problem of Caligari. I waited for a completed, stable and bugfree TS 4. There was none. I waited for a completed, stable and bugfree TS 5. There was none. I waited for a completed, stable and bugfree TS 6. There was none. Now guess what will happen with TS 7 ... |
Post by Délé // Mar 10, 2006, 9:40am
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I agree with some of the points being made. I definitely agree that the new bones and character animation tools are a must, and there are certainly some things that need to be smoothed out yet.
I have to say it does worry me a little that people think TS7 is 6.6 with a player window though. Alhtough it is in a hybrid stage right now. I think that there is quite a bit of new power in 7 that a lot of people tend to overlook. I don't think that the advancements that were made are immediately apparent. This is also why I personally would rather not see a review done on TS7 until 7.1. I don't know that most reviewers would go to the extent to truly explore the stronger advancements.
I hear that some people haven't really been playing with the LE or player a whole lot and I would encourage more people to explore these. I believe this is where the real advancements are made. They're not as familiar so they do take more time, but I think people are missing a large portion of what TS7 is all about if they leave them unexplored. I realize more exploration will probably come as more content is made to show just what can be done with the player and LE too though.
As I explore the LE and player I see great possibilities myself. Animations can be made quickly just by linking things together. They can be tweaked with sliders, sped up, slowed down, direction changes, etc. Models can be swapped out in place of better models within an animation, without having to re-keyframe.
And I think that the view in the player is fantastic and has more power. Even though I have realtime AA set to 4, I can still push around more polygons then in the modeler (with the bridge off). I have complete control over the opacity of Surfaces, Edges, and Vertices. The realtime view is so dang good, once they have a way to capture it (which I hope is soon), I can foresee good quality educational animations being produced very quickly, amongst other things I'm sure.
Modeling common things can be sped up by making scripts so that they can be procedurally modeled. Really, the power of scripting lends itself to all kinds of possibilities. Yeah, other programs can do powerful scripting, but now TS can too. :) |
Post by stan // Mar 10, 2006, 10:01am
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Dele.. in many ways yes it's more powerful..but the player is fairly useless to modelers.the new tools can't be used to well without going back to model...not every one wants to script..nor link nodes..they wanted a bug fixed 66 ..with good bones..maybe hair and caustics..
I wonder why if they put in an extra year on making the bridge to ts66, how far would they have gotten moving all the tools over rather that building bridges?..:confused: |
Post by Délé // Mar 10, 2006, 10:29am
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I agree stan. The more tools that migrate over to the player, the more useful it will become, and the modeler is still most definitely, and unfortunately a necessity. I think when more of the tools are in the player though, it will be a much better environment.
And I completely agree that scripting isn't for everyone. I wasn't thinking I was going to get into it myself, though I'm glad I'm learning. I think that if people want some fun, new, and potentially powerful tools to work with though, they should at least learn basic linking in the LE. That way even if they don't do any scripting themselves, they can at least take advantage of others scripts. There are potentially a lot of tools that can and probably will be created in this manner. |
Post by GraySho // Mar 10, 2006, 10:54am
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GraySho
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Don't get me wrong here, I see the potential of ts7, but nontheless, for me it's far away from completion. Délé, as you stated we can't capture or render out the player view, so it's just a preview. The link editor has a lot of potential, but does it replace the KFE? I think not. Procedural modeling is nice, but can you build a car or airplane with that? By the time I figuere out how to write a script to build a thread of a bolt, I rather go and model it directly. |
Post by Délé // Mar 10, 2006, 11:24am
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Délé
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I do see what you're saying GraySho and agree to a point. I definitely agree that there is more that needs to be implemented. Rendering from the player is definitely something I'd like to see sooner rather then later.
I do disagree on the procedural animation replacing the KFE though. Although I don't think it will completely replace it, I do think a large portion of animations can be made more quickly with procedurals and then dumped into the KFE for rendering. Making changes would be much quicker and easier in this scenario as well. For character animation I don't think procedural animation will be a viable choice as characters often need specialized movement. I think buttons and sliders could be a quick and convenient way to move bones around and manipulate morph targets for Keframing though.
As for the procedural modeling, yeah making threading would be quicker then writing the script. But if the script already existed and you needed to move on to other parts of a scene or animation, using the already existing script would probably be quicker. I like modeling things myself, but if I needed to move quickly for some reason and the script already existed, I think I'd choose to use it. There are many common things that this could be useful for too.
We'll have to see how things pan out I guess. It will be partially dependant on how quickly and accurately Caligari implements things, and how involved and inspired the community gets into them too. Hopefully it will grow quickly and be a lot of fun. :) |
Post by GraySho // Mar 10, 2006, 12:28pm
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Amen. All we can do is sit and wait :D |
Post by Vizu // Mar 10, 2006, 12:56pm
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Only a few things must added to Truespace to mess it with other 3D Apps.
polytools full integrated.
Renderspeed must faster, much more faster (Lightworks - Virtualight and VRay )
Stability
and a finished Truespace version.
For the moment i say that all TS7 purchaser / owner just (inofficial) betatesters. |
Post by Garion // Mar 10, 2006, 2:08pm
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Yeah, I said that before in the old forum. Roman yelled at me...
And therin lies the problem IMHO. "Roman shouted".
In all the hype prior to the release of TS7 I seem to remember that Roman said that this was the version of Truespace he had been aiming to produce for years.
Please try to understand that I am NOT trying to be nasty or vindictive here, but the above statement caps it off for me.
Is it all about Roman realising HIS personal dream, or is it about producing an application based on what the user base actualy wants and needs?
I am not the bogey man, I am the customer, the guy who is thoroughly hacked off with the broken promises, the gimmick before neccessity policy that seems to rule in Caligari. I have paid hundreds of pounds to Caligari and time and time again I feel I have thrown it down the toilet.
It has been said in the past and IF Caligari survive this debacle I daresay it will said again. YOU MUST LISTEN TO YOU USER BASE!
A year wasted on a Player and shared space that I will probably never use, a hybrid app, 1 third new and 2 thirds old and to add insult to injury a tripple hike in upgrade price (Sorry I am a tight fisted Scot) :)
I have used Truespace since version 1, I have several licenses for previous versions that run parrallel to my TS7 License. Truespace taught me a lot about 3D and got me started in a hobby/busness that I find very fulfilling.. that is until Truespace craps out on you, usually (as someone else said) in the last 10% of the project :(
I don't need to wait until the 3D World or Digit review to tell me what I already know. Truespace 7 in its present form is a mess and not worth the money. The company focuses on realising the CEO's dreams and NOT the needs of it's userbase, that given recent posts both here and elsewhere seems to be dwindling.
As mentioned in another post, Truespace is not even mentioned in the buyers guide of industry apps of various CG magazines.
In a recent email I recieved from Caligari regarding my retun of TS 7 under the 30 Day money back offer, all I got was an essay on how Truespace was first to do so many things, not one of the issues I raised in my email to them was addressed.
Although it may sound the opposite, I really want Truespace to live, but if you surround yourself with YES men and ignore your user base then I fear the worst.
Sorry for this, I had to get it off my chest, I have experience of being a Caligari beta Tester for Ispace which I still use and know what it is like to bang your head against caligari's brick wall.
I am 90% disabled, it took me over an hour to type this, so please try to see this post as I mean it to be. As a wake up call for those that can save the day.
Cheers
Garion |
Post by Alien // Mar 10, 2006, 4:38pm
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That´s the whole problem of Caligari. I waited for a completed, stable and bugfree TS 4. There was none. I waited for a completed, stable and bugfree TS 5. There was none. I waited for a completed, stable and bugfree TS 6. There was none. Now guess what will happen with TS 7 ...
I could be wrong, but I think 5 & 6 were just modified/upgraded versions of 4. tS7 is an entirely different core. People are looking at 7 as if it was just 6.6 with a few extra bits added in. That's not the case, if anything it's the other way round.
There's the tS7 core, with it's features [player, LE, stack, a proper undo, etc], & then [because all the tools haven't been created for new core yet] 6.6 is added in like 1 big giant plugin. As I said, I could be wrong, & if I am I'm sure someone from Caligari will correct me.
I will agree though, that shared space should have been left until much later. |
Post by roman // Mar 10, 2006, 5:05pm
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Is it all about Roman realising HIS personal dream, or is it about producing an application based on what the user base actualy wants and needs? Garion
How would you separate the two? If I did not have a "personal" dream to create trueSpace for Amiga 20 years ago, there never would have been any user base. Amiga architecture lived 8 years, first Windows architecture lived 10 and I believe this new one will live longer still, just give us time to stretch our wings. And stretch our wings we will, there is so much potential in this new architecture, we barely scratched its surface.
We did not spend a year on Player side, we spent 3 years and every second of that time was worth it, the fourth year was spent on making sure live bridge between the old architecture and new was robust enough. |
Post by Garion // Mar 10, 2006, 5:46pm
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Hi Roman
The point I was trying to make was that its alright and good to follow your personal dream, but not at the expense of the needs of your userbase.
Time after time people have asked for features and fixes to be implimented into Truspace and time and time again again they have gone unheard and some unasked for gimmick has been added instead.
Character animation, hair, fixed bugs (some show stoppers) have all been documented many times. Caligari's response has been 'Never mind all that look at this new shiny thing'
Player for example is a nice thing, but surely time would have been better spent working on the character anim and modelling side of things, with player as the icing on the cake. Thats what your userbase wanted (if I am reading their grumbles correctly)
Please understand that as a long term user of Truespace I wish Caligari to succeed, but it's time to take a back step and shore up the foundations.
Your dream has to come on top of an application that has the robust functionality and toolset to compete with applications that are now less expensive than Truespace.
New users are not going to be swayed into buying Truespace by what they see in the CG press, because Truespace is no longer IN the CG Press. It has dropped off the bottom.
Open yer eyes man and see the reality of it, before its to late.
Sigh its 03.38am here in Scotland and I need to sleep :)
Please think about what I have tried to say, text is such a bad medium for getting across the passion I feel right now and I mean it sincerely when I say I wish you and caligari all the best.
CHeers
Dr Gary Galbraith Ph.D
Retired Computer Science Lecturer, Software Engineer
Garion |
Post by Alien // Mar 10, 2006, 11:14pm
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Garion: I do see where you're coming from, & on some points I even agree with you [shared space should have been left until later], but please re-read my previous post, then the 1st paragraph of Roman's post.
You speak of shoring up the foundation - they've done better than that. To use a building metaphor, instead of propping up the original house & then repairing the original foundation, they've built a completely new foundation on the empty plot of land next door. This new foundation is stronger than the previous 1, & built in such a way so as to be more accessible should repairs be needed. This new foundaton is also larger then the previous 1, with more room to build on, & will also take a taller building. The problem is that whilst the foundation, & the outer shell of the building have been made, things like the kitchen, bathroom, & workshop in the basement haven't been put in yet, so you have to pop back next door to use the facilities.
I hope this makes things a bit clearer. |
Post by Bobbins // Mar 10, 2006, 11:49pm
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It should also be pointed out that many of the improvements users have been requesting - such as vastly better character animation tools - were simply not feasible under the old tS architecture. A complete re-write was necessary from the ground up to provide the foundation to make the changes people are asking for. Now that re-write has happened and the serious business of making the improvements we all want can begin, people are writing it off as a gimmick.
The Player is not just some shiny new thing, it is the front end to the new architecture.
The Bridge is not a waste of time, it is the method that allows backwards compatibility with every previous version of trueSpace. Without it you would not be able to load a single object, scene, material or anything else into the new architecture. How happy would everybody have been to find that none of their previous work was useable any more?
Real time collaboration is a by-product of the new message passing/distributed processing architecture - the amount of effort required to create it was minimal so don't go thinking the time spent on it ate into other things. |
Post by Vizu // Mar 11, 2006, 1:11am
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.. to topic !
Possible we seen no much Truespace work on cgtalk because it is not known enought.
Photoshop, 3D Max or C4D are much more known and why ?
Many users use it illegal.
Maybe it helps when Roman leech a reduced TS Version to angle the users.
A running version without example scenes or objects.
This is illegal i know and don´t understand me wrong.
My target isn´t to make illegal sharing software popular but maybe this would help to make TS known in this world.
I belive that many users would maybe buy a full version if they like it.
and remember ! my focus isn´t to make illegal popular !!!
... ah and excuse my bad english ... |
Post by KeithC // Mar 11, 2006, 4:36am
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To add to Vizu; many more users could be brought in if there was a demo. I'm not sure how long Caligari plans on waiting, but they are most likely losing the new base they wish to aquire as time goes on; losing them to applications that are comparable (or less) in price, that do have demos.
I don't have the money, at this time, to purchase another app. nor upgrade. But when I do, my purchase will be based off of the demo, not promises of things that may or may not come to be.
-Keith |
Post by stoker // Mar 11, 2006, 4:44am
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To add to Vizu; many more users could be brought in if there was a demo. I'm not sure how long Caligari plans on waiting
-Keith
I think caligari is consentating more on bug fixes and working on TS7.1. I doubt that they have very much free time to be bringing a demo out.;) |
Post by KeithC // Mar 11, 2006, 5:05am
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That makes no sense to me at all. From past experience, they don't seem to concentrate on too many bug fixes at all. But, it doesn't matter what I say; it's no skin off my back. If they can't produce tools (stable ones) that I/we need, then it'll be time to move on; simple as that. I think Garion had some excellent points as well.
-Keith |
Post by Steinie // Mar 11, 2006, 5:29am
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Garion, I can feel the sincerity in your post! Alot of us have been frustrated through the years from apparent apathy.
Player is really a great enhancement but currently it is just eyecandy! Can't output = useless.
I have faith that there are cool things coming, but the RIGHT things? I have never gotten a letter from Calagari asking what do I want Truespace to be.
Why is it taking 4 or more versions to fix bones? If at all!
Where has the Frank Rivera, Terry Halladay and Geoff Holmans gone and why?
Roman we all like your vision but remember without us your vision couldn't survive.
My Dad always taught me the old saying "Do it right the first time or not at all"
Some of us have given you two or more tries to get it right. |
Post by Alien // Mar 11, 2006, 6:26am
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That makes no sense to me at all. From past experience, they don't seem to concentrate on too many bug fixes at all.
In the past they were working with a different architecture, 1 that was [as has been stated a number of times by several Caligari people] very difficult/almost impossible to bug fix. Now, they're working with a new core architecture that's a lot more accessible & easier to fix. That's 1 of the main reasons why tS7 took so long - creating a completely new architecture.
Player is really a great enhancement but currently it is just eyecandy! Can't output = useless.
It's not designed to be primarily for output, it's designed to be a replacement for what we currently call the modeler, it just doesn't have all the tools in it yet.
Why is it taking 4 or more versions to fix bones? If at all!
Because for the last 3 versions they had an architecture that wasn't very easily fixable, now they have 1 that is.
Roman - I think it might have been a mistake to call it the "player", seems the name is giving too many people the wrong impression. |
Post by stan // Mar 11, 2006, 6:40am
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It should also be pointed out that many of the improvements users have been requesting - such as vastly better character animation tools - were simply not feasible under the old tS architecture. A complete re-write was necessary from the ground up to provide the foundation to make the changes people are asking for
..what was motion studio..??
The problem is that whilst the foundation, & the outer shell of the building have been made, things like the kitchen, bathroom, & workshop in the basement haven't been put in yet, so you have to pop back next door to use the facilities. Alien, that says it's a reno.. unfinished.... which it is..maybe it's a diamond in the rough..but ..they sell this as the best new thing..competition to maya..and you gotta go next door to pee..
not be able to load a single object etc..they could have made a scene, object , tsx api translator..
thing is people have been leaving or are very unset..if it's so wonderful why wouldn't mr Kay stick around..???
they couldn't even put the icons in the same order or layout..for what?
I must admit I never liked maximized toolbars. There it is I am admiting this openly. The reason was that many TS reviewers maximized all toolbars to show their readers all TS Icons thus entirely covering actual 3D workspace with 2 D Icons. I am a big advocate of direct 3D manipulation and I hated those screen grabs which "ruined" the simplicity of TS perspective View.now the default view is like a sardine can..as are the new library systems..
I understand Garion sentiments and agree..
my opinion the nodes and scripts should be behind the scene only accessed if you want to harness the power..otherwise it should look and feel like it's predcessor.. |
Post by daybe // Mar 11, 2006, 7:13am
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OK well here is how I see it and I can agree with a lot of points being made here, even though I am on the beta testing team I still have to use TS to make a living. In it's current I can still do this and I feel there was enough enhancement brought to the model side, ie material editor, HDRI, Virtualight, Vray even though it is still in development, Link Editor, Ipak and so on, on the player side the soft selection and SDS improvements.
I think we can all agree the architecture for TS 7 model side has been taken as far as it can without having to rewrite alot of it and why bother hence the player window.
Now I think Caligari has been listening to what the users have been asking for and alot of these features are in the works although it is taken a while.
I think the desicion to release TS7 in it's current form was a good choice, this way users can get a feel for the new architecture, while still being able to use TS7 the way they are used to without having to learn everything all over again. Imagine if for TS7 was released just as the player with all the tools included while it would cool, users would find production suffer at first while learning a new system. At least with the bridge people can learn on their own time as new tools get developed.
Just my 2 cents. |
Post by Bobbins // Mar 11, 2006, 8:45am
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..what was motion studio..??
Motion Studio isn't a complete character animation system - it can't even do any one type of constraint on a joint. Also it has no proper target system - look at, align rotation etc. Scott spent a lot of time fighting the tS architecture and API to write Motion Studio as it was. Motion Studio is good - but it's not the be all and end all of what a full character animation implementation should be.
not be able to load a single object etc..they could have made a scene, object , tsx api translator..
Stan, they have made just such a thing. It took a year to write and it's called the Bridge. |
Post by Naes3d // Mar 11, 2006, 2:33pm
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Just to clarify...Roman didn't actually shout or yell at me.
We communicated via email. He didn't even use bold type...
At first parts of his message to me seemed condescending, but after re-reading it I understood it to be just the passion he feels for his product and his frustration that he can't just give the program away and let everyone see just how good he believes it to be first hand.
Having said all that, the reality is that trueSpace does not currently do everything it's user base has been asking for and almost every potential competitor can.
It's like this, to use Caligari's sentiments, tS is an application from the future. It's ahead of it's time and dare say ahead of a good number of it's users. If you were to go back far enough in time, and could speak to whoever was occupying whatever country you call home, they would have a hard time understanding you. Because the language has evolved. In order to be fully understood you have to limit your speech to concepts understood at the time. That is the situation tS in, it is a future technology that is not speaking to the people using concepts they completely understand.
We understand concepts like rigging, character animation, cloth and softbody dynamics, compositing and universally translatable formats because most of the contempory applications can do these things. When we attempt to 'speak' to tS about these things, we get garbled messages or at best incomplete translations.
So to kind of bring it back to topic, in order to get the word out about tS7 we have to express the program in the 'language of the natives' as it were. It's fine to have the 'application of the future' but what good is it if it doesn't speak today's language? |
Post by bill // Mar 11, 2006, 9:54pm
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You speak of shoring up the foundation - they've done better than that. To use a building metaphor, instead of propping up the original house & then repairing the original foundation, they've built a completely new foundation on the empty plot of land next door. This new foundation is stronger than the previous 1, & built in such a way so as to be more accessible should repairs be needed. This new foundaton is also larger then the previous 1, with more room to build on, & will also take a taller building. The problem is that whilst the foundation, & the outer shell of the building have been made, things like the kitchen, bathroom, & workshop in the basement haven't been put in yet, so you have to pop back next door to use the facilities.
Alien, I think that is an excellent analogy.
I used to be a builder. I currently design homes. Sometimes I have to design them while the house is being built. This has happened twice in the past year. A builder wants to have a knock-out home for an upcoming home show. He comes to us and wants us to design a spectacular home and he wants to start building it in one week in order to be able to have it finished in time for the show. So we go into overtime and get the basic shape of the house completed and approved in one week. I then design the foundation to match the plan and away they go. But we are far from complete in the design. While they are laying the foundation we are still working hard to get everything to fit and work out all the structural details.
This is a very stressful process when we are under such strict time constraints. Especially when we have to keep working on all our other projects as well. At any one time I'm working on 10 or more designs at the same time. While one design is going through the review and approval process I work on other plans either to get them to the point that they can be reviewed or get them finished and out the door.
I am very proud of my creations even though it can be very stressful at times. I can imagine how much more stressful it would be if the customers were constantly hounding me and telling me that my work is crap because we aren't getting the design done as quickly as they want us to. I used to let that bother me. Now I just take the stance that it will be done when it gets done and it will be spectacular. If you want fast and inferior there are plenty of other designers out there who will be happy to accomodate you.
I don't know Roman or any of the other people working on Truespace. But I do know that they have put a lot of thought and hard work into building V7. For several versions they kept building on top of a weak foundation. And people kept complaining and complaining that it just wasn't good enough. I was one of those people. My biggest complaint was instability and an inferior Undo function. I don't care anything about animations or bones or any of that because that is not what I do. Roman finally listened and invested a great deal of time, effort, and money into designing a completely new structure. He built the foundation, built the walls, and put a roof on it. He even spent the time building a bridge back to the old structure to allow for easy migration between the two while the new was being completed.
I have a lot of respect for Roman. I have a lot of respect for anyone who finds their passion in life and works hard to achieve their dreams. I think Roman and all the people at Caligari need our support and encouragement. And what's more, they deserve it. Is Truespace perfect? No. In my opinion no software out there is perfect. That is why I have so many different programs.
I say give them a chance to get the job complete. Then if you don't like the program find one you do like. But coming on this message board and trashing Truespace will not help anything. It will only serve to discourage those who are working so hard to develop the tools that you may someday wonder how you ever did anything without them. Encouragement breeds excellence. Complaining only makes their job that much more difficult. I want an excellent tool to aid in my design process so I am going to continue giving my encouragment and support. Keep up the good work and keep developing something that you can be proud of. Someday it will be spectacular.
Oh, and even though I don't get written up in all the architectural publications I always walk away with the lion's share of awards at the home shows so I put little stock in what these publications say about how great the other designers are.
Stepping down from my soapbox to get back to work. |
Post by Garion // Mar 12, 2006, 2:51am
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I am certainly NOT trashing Truespace, I still have several Licenses AND I still have my version 7 upgrade.
No one is diss'ing Roman either.
This IS the Rants and Raves section after all :)
My post was a shout from the wilderness to those in charge informing them that IMHO Caligari have dropped the ball placing gimmicks over features that people want/need.
I am questioning the substance over the hype and the cost of ownership.
Please do not let this otherwise freeflow of ideas, gripes etc turn into a flame fest of fanboyism.
And dont jump on the fanboy part as an insult aimed directly at anyone.
Truespace is a tool, nothing more, if the tool can't do the job and/or is too expensive any right thinking individual will go out and source a tool that fits their needs.
Do people get excited about the type of hammer they use? I don't, like Truespace it's a tool.
Some of us have been here since version 1 and have spent a small fortune on Caligari products and to be quite blunt it gauls me to hear that the features we all asked for could never be implimented in the old TS6.6 architecture as that would imply that we HAVE been throwing our money down the toilet.
As regards my building analogy.
If what most people are saying is true and that the TS 1 -6 archatecture cannot support the features found in other applications, (features that have have been availible for a number of years now) then why were we not told sooner?
The new house that is being built is just at the foundation stage, Vray costs a lot extra, virtua light is free and can be used with virtua out, the Ipak, a lot of us already have and the part that has taken 3 years to write is the player part, which is a gimmick atm and at time of release not much good for anything.
The time spent on building the bridge, could have been spent re-writing the core and adding more to the new archatcture instead of having us re-use and pay again for TS-6.6.
So if yer happy with what you got for yer money then good for you.
Personally I am not happy, but... I am still in the ring with my copy of TS 7 and Vray sitting in its box until the time comes that it may be useful and until then I will use TS.6.6 to complete my current projects then move on... to where is as yet unknown, only time will tell
Cheers
Dr Gary Galbraith (Ph.D) |
Post by Naes3d // Mar 12, 2006, 2:41pm
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Naes3d
Total Posts: 0
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For the life of me, I can't understand why a lot of the things said here get dismissed as simple complaints. A complaint is when people say 'I don't like the color of Caligari logo'. When people say 'we want character animation tools' that's a request. When people say 'we've been waiting for years to have the animation tools we've been requesting' that is called feedback.
Feedback is defined as "The return of information about the result of a process or activity; an evaluative response". A complaint is definened as "an expression of pain, dissatisfaction, or resentment".
Sometimes complaints are tossed in, but the essence of what we are offering is feedback. You can't blame those people who lament over long years without satisfaction for venting their frustration.
As far as the analogy to home buliding, there is one very important difference.
trueSpace7 is being sold to us as a finished product.
In the examples given, I hardly would expect anyone to describe those homes as finished. There is no way that anyone, no matter what the home looked like, could demand a premium price for a home without standard amenities. This is the gray area within which tS7 sits. Is it tS6.6 plus some new tools or is it tS7 minus all of it's full potential? Either way, the price being charged is a premium one. Maybe they should have designed tS7 to bridge to whatever version of tS you were currently running. Since 4, 5 and 6 (perhaps down to version 1 maybe) all used the same core, this should have been possible. It would have brought the price down considerably and allowed a greater number of people to access the new platform.
Another reason that tS doesn't get good exposure, many of the people who use the big boy apps are making extensive use of the features in those apps that tS seems to keep pushing back to later dates. No studio trying to put out the next Peter Jackson film is going to wait for Caligari to come around to what they need. They are going to go to someone who is already giving their needs priority.
It's great to have dreams and vision, but eventually, your bottom line is going to reflect how well you are meeting your customers needs. If Caligari is meeting it's cutomers needs without having the oft requested animation tools, then for the good of the business they need to stop wasting money on them. Let those people who are expecting a high end animation toolset off the line so they can look elsewhere. |
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