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Fatal Fantasy VII
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Fatal Fantasy VII // Rants and Raves
Post by Humdinger // Jun 4, 2006, 11:24am
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Humdinger
Total Posts: 319
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Final Fantay VII..Advent Children
Well...
I am too filled with blind rage to make too much sense here...
This movie was horrrrrrrrible!
Are Sqaure and SONY trying to ruin 100% CGI movies with a serious storyline for everyone or what!
The first was bad enough...then comes this turd..that appareantly was so poorly recieved that it went straight to video here in the US, as it should have..if that.
As a huge CGI freak and a massive fan of the Japanease style of camera direction in their traditionally animated cartoons...I can not express in simple words how piss poor both the animation and the direction were.
If you need further PROOF that motion capture IS NOT ANIMATION...rent this turd.
As for the direction....sorry it hurts to talk about it.
Some of the 'sets' and 'textures' and 'models' were fantastic..no doubt about that..but my god everything else was just total garbage..total...I mean just how many Flashbacks can one movie have!
I am so pissed at these two companies..so pissed!
A Pox! A Pox I say ..on both thier houses!
(insert profantity laced rant here..with a few animal sounds thrown in)
BTW..no I do not need to play the game to 'get it'. I understood going in that the story was going to be hard to follow for me..but it matters not ..as I could care less about the tale told...more so the tail that drop this load.
Can I do better..?...
Ummmmm with 300 million bucks (investment on both films combined)..yeah I think I could.
As they say....even A broken clock is right twice a day! |
Post by brianalldridge // Jun 4, 2006, 11:51am
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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Best..rant..so..far:p Yeah it's an awful movie, it ought to removed from the market to keep from giving FF a bad name |
Post by Humdinger // Jun 4, 2006, 12:35pm
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Humdinger
Total Posts: 319
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Glad to hear I am not alone..
As mentioned in a review I wrote on a movie site i visit...
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'I knew, as I had not played the game in years, that i was going to get 'lost' in the story...instead I found myself wishing I had gotten LOST on the way to the video store.'
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:)
So sick still...lol..damn website was loaded with 'fan boys' saying how awesome it was and 'true to the game'.
BFD.
I mean some scenes reminded me of stuff I Do...lol.. in this sense..
-You try to time everything out porperly..but when you play the final avi you say
'Nah that is just too damn jumpy..i need more keyframes..slow this down a bit'
..you know like an amatuer hack CGI guy (which I am )...lol..a sequence has to be seen..i should never sit there watching a fight scene and have the camera angle change so many times in the course of 15 seconds that I have no idea what is coming from is where..who is doing what....just silly.
The first movie was a 360 from this one...in that WE SAW EVERYTHING...to the point that it was all like slow motion or something..very fluid..yes..but also very very BORING!...lol
It makes no sense...the traditional animation and its use of the camera and color as 'actors' is far and away the best aspect of Japanease animation..it is the very thing that makes japanease animation what it is...and this movie lacked all of that...zero..nada...it made attempts..but they were weak at best.
We went from 8 frames a second to 24 and things have gotten completely lost! How the hell does that happen!?!?!?!
:confused: |
Post by Burnart // Jun 12, 2006, 2:38pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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I couldn't understand what the hell was going on - all the flowing hair looked cool but decidely odd! |
Post by mrbones // Jun 12, 2006, 2:48pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Obviously I need initial proof that mocap is not animation.
Im not sure what your getting at.
Are you saying that motion capture was used in the movie?
or not?
If you need further PROOF that motion capture IS NOT ANIMATION...rent this turd. |
Post by Shike // Jun 13, 2006, 6:04am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Nice Rant indeed :)
I'm still waiting for my preordered DVD of Advent Children but I don't think it's available in Sweden before August.
Not going to cancel the order though, because luckily, when there is CGI effects, I'm happy. I make stills, and bet if you press the pause button in the movie, it looks good and might be used as inspiration ;)
For animators it can always be used as a guide of "How you shouldn't do it.." (have several movies like that by now, including the first movie) :p
Do agree about Mo-Cap, it doesn't replace good animators.
Gollum and PolarExpress (think that's the English title...with TomHanks as almost all characters) shows that it can be a pretty good startingpoint. :) |
Post by Zeipher // Jun 13, 2006, 2:06pm
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Zeipher
Total Posts: 224
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Gasp! I rather enjoyed it! I had been following its progress for about a year before its release, and even though I played the game it still confused me, but overall I enjoying it. I do agree that they kept showing flash-backs (the Shinra building render(twice!!!)) but still...
I play it in Jap with Eng subs as their lips fit their words a bit more this way. Advent Children was mostly MoCap Mr. Bones, but they sped it up a bit too much (watch the trailers for the movie and it'll look better than the movie itself, sadly). However, over all I did enjoy it... though I may not watch it for a number of months.
I do wonder if it would have been better had the animation been keyed rather than captured. Might have cost them a hell of a lot less as well, lol.
andy |
Post by Humdinger // Jun 14, 2006, 2:31am
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Humdinger
Total Posts: 319
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Been giving this some thought over the last few days...
- Motion Capture
Nothing wrong with it...works perfect when used properly.
Examples would be the scenes where characters are talking to each other. There are some very, very subtle hands motions...weight shifting etc. that motion capture is perfect for.
But as stated..this is not animation. The scenes with people walking around the city streets...all Motion Capture..and it was easy to tell as everyone moved sooooooooooooooooo slow and predictable....yawn.
- 8 frames versus 24 frames per second
When push comes to shove I think this is the 'problem'.
Much of the pacing and direction techniques that I love about tradititonal Japanease animation may not translate to the higher frame rate...?
Over the years even the 'worst' Japanease cartoons have excellent direction and pacing..as I assume they all follow similar formulas for speed, timing and pacing.
I guess the problem is working out new formulas based on the higher frame rate..and from what I keep seeing..much if not all of the traditional 8 frames a second techniques do not translate once you introduce the additional frames.
Who really knows..it's just so sad..as the Japanease are really our only source of 'cartoons' with adult themes and an edge...that are not just all 'comedy'
Inuyasha Rules!!!!!!!! |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Jun 14, 2006, 7:39pm
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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Interesting topic. Yea, I too was disappointed in the first Final Fantasy movie. Haven't seen the 2nd (nor does it sound like I will unless it's shown on some channel for free someday).
Interestingly, it seems that cell shading techniques are seeing more and more use when applied to live footage. (i.e. "A Scanner Darkly" due to come out very soon http://www.apple.com/trailers/warner_independent_pictures/ascannerdarkly/large.html). Not sure how good it will be but it certainly isn't for kids. |
Post by splinters // Jun 14, 2006, 9:29pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I must say that visually I was in awe, and I have it on DVD so certain scenes have had many repeat viewings. Saying that though, I didn't have a bloody clue what was going on...;)
Eye candy only here and I don't think they were going for photoreal-more like hyper real; making certain cartoon/manga features look like they were real through lighting and texturing yet your brain tells you they can't be. Sort of like a fully rendered GI VRay picture of Barney...:D |
Post by TomG // Jun 15, 2006, 4:11am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Hurrah for "A Scanner Darkly" - I am a huge Philip K. Dick fan, and the film seems to remain faithful to the book, so looking forward to it. Probably doesn't make for the world's most exciting movie, since it sticks to the book, but that will suit me. I am pretty tired of the wacky Hollywood adaptations of PKD works which transform them into action-fare, a bizarre thing to do since that was never what PKD was about (why not just pick a different author if you are going to turn it into an action movie??).
So far, haven't liked any of the PKD adaptations except Blade Runner (which is completely different and not faithful to the book, but is really a "conversion" into a format that works in the movies rather than novel). I haven't seen Minority Report mind you, and I hear that one isn't too bad.
Not entirely sure about the rotoscoping in "Scanner" but I guess we'll see. Many reviews feel the movie would be pretty non-descript without it :) I guess that's due to the fact that most Philip K. Dick novels are all about the people and their thoughts and feelings, which does make for less interesting movies!
As for the FF movie, a huge fan of the FF VII game, like so many outside of Japan, this was my first FF game. The new movie? Well, it was disappointing. My main gripe is that you just can't tell what happens in the fight sequences - it's like "Cloud does things with his sword, adding something or taking something away or joining things together but you can't really see what, and have no idea why! Sudden flurry of something where someone in the air does something and someone else also in the air does something else, with plenty of "kerchinnng!" metal sounds, and suddenly the two of them are back on the ground, paused in some half crouch stance staring at each other.... then suddenly more of the same thing! And someone has won and someone lost!"
I wanted to see what sort of move the person was doing, to know that A tries to hit B with a swipe from the sword and B blocks and spins around and so on and so forth. Instead it cuts around so fast you can't really make out half the battle.
I was also disappointed that it was all about Cloud. I wanted more Red XIII, who was my favorite from the game (and for some reason seems to have acquired Cait Sith as a permanent companion... also for some reason, Cait Sith is more annoying than ever, and has a really dreadful Scottish accent... weird).
And the story is a little dull, I felt it a bit forced to bring in Sephiroth and Aeris in there, but there you go.
Some nice lighting, some cool designs for cities and technologies (I like the bikes). Some interesting monsters. Most disappointing is the lack of emotional content - hey, FF was the game where everyone was shocked when a main character was killed (yeah I know a spoiler but after 10 years or whatever, I think a plot spoiler is no big issue haha), and that was part of what made the game, as it gave you something of an emotional jolt, unlike just jumping on screen and bouncing off things to kill them and collecting coins and the like. So a shame the movie didn't do the same.
CG is nice, but I didn't feel it was particularly revolutionary. Above all, having had to wait an extra 14 months or something for it to be released (and I only rented it), it had way to long to build up expectations that it couldn't possibly meet.
So it was "ok" in my opinion. I hope I can say better than that for "Scanner", I am really hoping for that to be good :)
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by frank // Jun 15, 2006, 7:16am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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unlike just jumping on screen and bouncing off things to kill them and collecting coins and the like
But Mario doesn't use camera tricks. ;)
(Sorry, Tom...couldn't resist. LOL!) |
Post by Zeipher // Jun 15, 2006, 12:09pm
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Zeipher
Total Posts: 224
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Wow! Look at Mario taking him down! I wondered how that guy was beaten... must have missed that part. |
Post by Humdinger // Jun 16, 2006, 2:41am
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Humdinger
Total Posts: 319
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Hey Professor....
Like any good 'rant' I am exaggerating things a bit.
:)
As Splinters mentioned, there is tons of great eye candy in this flick..though the use of muted colors did not really work for me. But no doubt some of the sets and texture work along with the GI rendering was top notch.
As for...
http://wip.warnerbros.com/ascannerdarkly/
hmmmm..I will make a prediction that this will not work commercially.
I think people will just see this 'toon' effect and wonder what was the point. This is not animated but rather film footage that was the put through filters..and I think people will ask..'Why Bother".
Also I see that like most vector filters there is a bit of waveyness...at times..where the colors appear to 'move' on their own..? And people will find it hard to concentrate on what is going on.
The human eye and brain are very good at taking things they do not know and comparing them to things they DO know to arrive at an understanding. I would think over a long period of exposure the brain will be confused as it tries to compare this footage with others in it's memory..and will attempt to remove the filter to a degree..and once again..due to length of the exposure to the effect it will eventually get 'lost' and whala we have vertigo and people getting sick.
least that's what I think.
:)
I will be there with a 'sick bag' for my girlfriend just in case. |
Post by hemulin // Jun 16, 2006, 10:14am
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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I will be there with a 'sick bag' for my girlfriend just in case.
Or you could just move to the other side of the room. ;) |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Jun 17, 2006, 6:38am
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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lol. It's a novelty to be sure. Usually the first movie to use the technique is the only one remembered.
Hmm. Maybe I should watch the next final fantasy then? That whole 'Gaia' earth soul concept didn't really exite me in the first movie but then I think it's a theme more indigeneous to anime style culture. I do remember watching "Cowboy Bebop" (series and the movie) and found it somewhat strange culturally but in a way that's what made that one interesting for some reason.
I should have brought a sick bag to "The Blair Witch Project" but for different reasons (plot AND hand-held camera related) :) |
Post by Eagle // Sep 20, 2006, 7:38pm
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Eagle
Total Posts: 221
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I thought the movie was outstanding, but I’m also a big FF fan.
hey Humdinger, can I ask you a kind of an off topic question? Why do you
have model pic's of people with down syndrome as your avatar? I have been
staring at it for a while trying to figure it out, so now I just have to ask.
Vickie~ |
Post by Humdinger // Sep 21, 2006, 2:24am
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Humdinger
Total Posts: 319
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I thought the movie was outstanding, but I’m also a big FF fan.
hey Humdinger, can I ask you a kind of an off topic question? Why do you
have model pic's of people with down syndrome as your avatar? I have been
staring at it for a while trying to figure it out, so now I just have to ask.
Vickie~
lol...
Well..let me see. First the kids in the avatar are 'alien' kids. So they have heads that are a bit larger than normal, as well as their eyes. There are true 'human' kids in the project I am working on and they have more traditional proportions.
Also I think a wee bit of the look comes from the extreme closeups I am using in the avatar images.
As a side note check your PM for a few other images later today.
Lastly..it is nice to see that you have migrated over to the TS forums! |
Post by Eagle // Sep 21, 2006, 3:46am
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Eagle
Total Posts: 221
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thanks for the PM Humdinger, that explains a lot! I sent a PM back to you also.
I haven't really migrated, I am looking for someone named Paul Ashington.
GameSpace is the best modeler I've ever used! But I really don't know too
much about TS7.
always~
Vickie ;) |
Post by splinters // Sep 21, 2006, 4:08am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Hi Eagle, Paul Ashington goes by the name of Cayenne on these forums. Try here for his profile;
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/member.php?u=5
Good luck. |
Post by Eagle // Sep 21, 2006, 4:20am
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Eagle
Total Posts: 221
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Thanks Splinters! ;)
always~
Vickie :p |
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