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Six-hundred-and-fifty-bucks...?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Six-hundred-and-fifty-bucks...? // Rants and Raves
Post by Plum // Oct 11, 2006, 5:56am
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Plum
Total Posts: 39
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RANT
Grrr! The prices really bother me. I've bought tS back in version 2 or 3 (it was for "Windows for Workgroups 1.11". I've kept my eye on it, I upgraded to 4.3, and held off on 5 because there weren't any real character animation improvements. Then I held off on 6 because there weren't any real character animation improvements. Then I held of on 7 because there weren't any real character ahimation improvements.
So, I go to check the upgrade path now, hearing that 7.5 is supposed to address a lot of animation goodness...and I see that I'd save a whopping $50. Huh...oh well, I would be upgrading from something from the late 90's, so be it. But, honestly...the full version is....$595. :confused: I'm gonna guess that the Caligari team there made a little whupsie.
But...$600 for trueSpace? Compare it's feature set with, oh, Softimage XSI Foundation. XSI Fnd will set you back $495 (or, a hundred bucks cheaper). If you compare the list of XSI to tS7...well, lets just leave it at :confused:
Now, Caligari has a special offer of tS 7.1, and "proTeam" (re: tutorials and an upgrade to tS 7.5), for the price of...$895!!! I guess you could do that...or splurge an extra $100 and buy a two MORE coppies of XSI Fnd. :confused:
Caligari's pricing themselves out of the market as far as I'm concerned. They need to do some serious price cutting, or make tutorials...GOOD ones...free for download. The proTeam should be about 75% less than it is...I'd happily pay $10 to $15 per month for proTeam stuff...but not more than the $40/month the current price is (especially all in one 'go').
I don't know...I'm looking at what trueSpace has to offer as far as network rendering, rendering quality, ease of use for those familiar with other programs like Maya, XSI, 3DS MAX, Carrara, Cinema4D (who's pricing, btw, is also whacked from my perspective), etc...and tS just isn't cutting it.
Phew! I feel better now! :D We now return you to your regularly running program already in progress... |
Post by Steinie // Oct 11, 2006, 7:49am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Plum,
Nothing you said I disagree with. Ok I said that up front. BUT
Your XSI for $495.00 sounds like a good deal untill you discover you also have to carry around a dongle forever....or their CAT 2.5 plugin cost 995.00 to work with MAX which cost $3495. While I'm at it I'll buy Maya for $1999 or Cinema 4D for $895...close to TS7 BUT their hair plugin set you back another $395, sketch and toon $525 or particles for a cool $375 extra. You didn't mention Lightwave $795....which has that stupid dongle....
Your mistake is you update too soon. A month or two ago you could have gotten TS4.3 for less than $20 bucks!
Now I feel bad....:rolleyes:
Dongles are like Mother in Laws....you can't get rid of em |
Post by splinters // Oct 11, 2006, 8:24am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Fair points...all of them, but then again tS is one of a few 'self contained' programs with the flexibility (especially in tS7) of writing your own scripts via the LE. Just look how many cool FREE plug-ins have appeared since it was released. There aren't many programs for the price that offer so much in one package and 7.5 will be noticably better...
...oh, and where else can you get Vray rendering at that price??
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: |
Post by Burnart // Oct 11, 2006, 1:23pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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I think upgrade pricing is an issue - how about better staggering of update offers for different version owners? Having said that given that 3.2 has been a give away and 4.3 has been practically given away you can't blame them for only offering a small upgrade inducement.
I bought into tS at 6.5 when on special offer precisely because it offered a wide range of tools on board and because I believed that things I wanted (hair, cloth) would eventually be addressed. Ok so I'm still waiting but hair is on the horizon. Personally I've been a little disappointed with the upgrade to 7 but I will reserve my full judgement until 7.5 and we see the new anim tools and displacement mapping. My biggest concern is that much of the best stuff I'm seeing from 7 is clearly being rendered through the vRay plugin - which was an expense too far for me. |
Post by RichLevy // Oct 11, 2006, 2:23pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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XSI Foundation has no dongle, Essentials and Advanced do.
XSI Foundation is a non upgradeable licience, you buy it for 495.00 and when the new version comes out, you pay another 495.00 for it (if you chose to get the newer version). XSI Foundation is a great deal, and a terrific piece of software (I have it, I love it and I use it almost daily), but it has 2 main purposes to exist,
1)increase market share for SoftImage by providing a very powerful 3D application at a very competitive price. Allowing them to get a piece oif the hobbiest market, and into the pro studios)
2) allow the big studios to provide liciences to artists who do not need the full power of the Advanced or Essentials package (Modelers and texture artists as well as animators do not need to have access of all the features in the other packages)
If you do a serch on all of the major 3D applications, TS is competively placed right there with the other packages (C4D, XSI Foundation, Lightwave, Realsoft.... even someday Modo :D)
Rich |
Post by TomG // Oct 12, 2006, 1:38am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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The right tool for the job at the right choice is always going to be a personal opinion. For some, those other tools may be the ones they want (even at the higher prices!). For others, tS is just the right tool!
Other perspectives - tS has been $595 for years. Factor in inflation, and that means the software is getting steadily cheaper with each passing year, and even as the feature set grows, we've kept the pricing the same.
I think also that it's fair to say if you keep up with any application, upgrading each time, then your upgrade pricing is small. If you drop back a version or two, then you are pretty much paying full price again. This seems to be the case with most other 3D apps, and other software like Windows and Photoshop etc.
Also, unlike other 3D companies, we don't remove our old versions from availability when a new one comes out. Want to buy Lightwave or Max from a few versions ago? Too bad, pay the price for the latest version. If you don't like the price of tS7 now, well, you will find great discounts in tS6.6 and tS5, and while their animation toolset may not have appealed when they were $595, you may find it appealing at their new prices. It's become possible to pick up tS5 for under $100, or bundled with $100's worth of courses, so great low price deals are definitely out there!
And then there are the points others have mentioned too.
So, some people will certainly think $595 is a whupsie and way too much, while others will think they are getting their hands on a real bargain having to pay half the price or a quarter of the price they think it is worth, all that power for a great price which includes things no other app at any price can do, like the collaboration. It all depends on just what is right for you!
Of course, we hope we can convince you too that $595 is a great price for everything you get :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by KeithC // Oct 12, 2006, 3:46am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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If you do a serch on all of the major 3D applications, TS is competively placed right there with the other packages (C4D, XSI Foundation, Lightwave, Realsoft.... even someday Modo )
If you factor in XSI's animation capabilities, then TS7 is overpriced. If you factor in Lightwave's animation tools, and renderer, then TS7 is overpriced (with Vray, TS7 costs $900). If you factor in C4D integrating Body Paint 3 into version 10, then TS7 is overpriced. If you factor in Modo's modeling tools and renderer, then TS7 is overpriced (although Modo is not a complete package yet).
In order to compare TS7 to many of the other tools out there; you'd have to include VRay into the purchase price, and like I said...that brings the price up to $900. I won't go into the availability of decently priced tutorial sets there are for these other applications; we've already discussed that.
Also, unlike other 3D companies, we don't remove our old versions from availability when a new one comes out.
That is true, and it's good for people who are on a budget or are just trying their hand at 3D. But do you also let the buyer know that the version they are buying is no longer supported, as far as bug fixes (is there a list of known bugs published), etc.?
As far as upgrading goes; I'll compare upgrading LW8 to LW9, and TS6.6-TS7. I upgraded from LW8.5 to LW9 for $400. The upgrade from TS6.6-TS7 is $400. From what I've seen so far; the upgrade to TS7 is has more to offer its users, than the upgrade from LW8.5 to LW9. Both applications have promised better animation tools, and a more stable platform during this cycle (as well as other items). I think TS 7.5 will be a defining moment for Caligari; for the people that have hung around long enough to see if 7.5 brings what was promised, it will be a "make or break" moment.
Hopefully after 7.5 (and it's subsequent demo) is released, I hope substantial attention will be given to GameSpace 2; as it's users have waited FAR too long for an update. As I've said in other threads; Caligari's going to have to do something major to attract former GameSpace users back. The Game Development market is often overlooked by many applications (XSI is now marketing heavily to game developers, and many are now picking up the $500 Foundation), which is why Max is still looked at as the standard in the industry. Lightwave has been used to produce some AAA titles, but they haven't really taken relevant strides towards marketing to Game Developers (in fact it seems their marketing in general is lacking, especially to schools and studios). GameSpace has the potential to take a decent share of the Indy Game Developer market (like Torque); but only if it gets a major overhaul, especially in the .X and animation departments. But for now, game artists are tired of being put on the back burner. Bringing an artist back from another program (such as XSI, Max, or Lightwave) would take significant improvements to GameSpace; especially after they have dedicated time and money to the other programs.
I guess we'll all just have to wait until 7.5 is released, to see the course Caligari is taking. Hopefully 7.5 doesn't get pushed up to 7.x (like 7.1 did).
All the best though guys; Tom knows I mean well.:)
-Keith |
Post by GraySho // Oct 12, 2006, 5:52am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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Hopefully after 7.5 (and it's subsequent demo) is released, I hope substantial attention will be given to GameSpace 2; as it's users have waited FAR too long for an update. -Keith
I see great potential for game artists with the new directx9 render display, but only if it comes along with properly working import/export functions, and native HLSL support. Maybe next Gamespace version will be based on tS7.5. |
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