From simple to complicated

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From simple to complicated // Rants and Raves

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Post by remnar // Sep 2, 2008, 6:59pm

remnar
Total Posts: 105
I been a fan of Caligari Truespace and all the artwork people make with it. However with the latest version 7.6, Ts has become too complicated compared to 6.6. In ts 6.6 it is straight forward once you learn where the tools are and what they do. Even the SDK was easy to use because it was straight forward (mostly) with its functions and parameters. The SDK was easy enough to even convert the headers over to another language of your choice, even Visual Basic.


Now things have drastically changed and become too complicated. I'm no professional or experienced coder, but when I look at the SDK, I can't determine if I'm looking at COM/ATL language usage or the sdk. I appreciate the examples and documentation, but looking at the code is like looking at something totally new even with a basic understanding of the c++ language. I know there is a steep learning curve with COM/ATL, but what I'm saying is that the SDK has become needlessly complicated to the point where I can't tell the difference between the COM/ATL language and sdk functions. In fact looking at the include files I cannot determine what functions to use.


Using tools in Ts7 workspace seems simple enough, but after reading through some of the questions people have about using and loading materials, etc which used to be simple and easy in 6.6 has become complicated in 7.6. I'm finding the difficulty to be a deterrent instead of a challenge worthy of conquering.


Another rant is why Lightworks was not implemented into workspace. I can think it may be a business decision to get people to buy Vray. The real time rendering feature of Ts 7.6 is nice but it isn't something that works to it's full power on my old machine. If I want to do anything in Ts, I often have to work on 6.6 modeler side.


Perhaps my frustration is with myself with not being to adapt to the complication of this new change. I like the 7.6 interface the features of workspace. What I don't like is that the change made what was once simple to now very complicated.

Post by splinters // Sep 3, 2008, 5:08am

splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Fair points Remnar. I have no idea how to use the SDK anyway but I still find the workspace complicated to use even after all the time I have spent with it.


Perhaps complicated is not the right word, I certainly cannot use it as efficiently as model side though so I tend to steer away from it for commercial work and only dabble in there if and when I have time.


For new users, however, who aren't stuck in their ways like me...it is the new improved tS...:o


There is no doubt it is the future of the program...just not the present?

Post by Burnart // Sep 3, 2008, 12:49pm

Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Learning the Workspace is like learning a new program with all the problems, frustrations and irritations that entails. It is possible to create objects and animations in Workspace and render them on the Modelside with Lightworks. With static scenes you can even use dribble. The bridge between the two can still throw a spanner in the works from time to time so it pays to backup your projects regularly but overall the bridge is vastly improved since vers 7.0 was first released. All I can suggest is keep plugging away. Overall the poly modelling tools are much improved as is the animation environment. I suggest just going through the manual and doing all the little tutes and watching all the videolinks. You'll get there. I understand the problem though - I have been very reticent about committing to the Workspace myself. I'm trying to change that now.


As far as the SDK goes - I can't comment - that stuffs way beyond my capabilities.

Post by splinters // Sep 3, 2008, 1:05pm

splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I have no real issues Burnart, just a boat load of stuff to bring up to date and get published online...I simply can't do it in workspace efficiently yet.


I have been using the workspace since the early tS7 alpha builds...it is not that I can't use it just that I don't.


I guess it is like a writer having a super fast PC and office suite but it is still quicker to type on their trusty old typewriter...



....I will get there...;)

Post by jayr // Sep 3, 2008, 1:39pm

jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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My own fear is that Lightworks will never make it accross the bridge. I have a horrible feeling that microsoft wants Truespace for its realtime engine and modelling abilities and doesn't really want to add the lightworks engine to the workspace. I hope i'm wrong though.


The other theory is that truespace will split into 'free' and 'pro' versions, like sketchup. If that does happen maybe the pro version will get lightworks or another render engine built into the workspace.


this is just all guessing and paranoia really, i'm sure microsoft and caligari have truespace's development well planned out, i just wish we knew more about where it was headed.


we'll just have to wait and see really

Post by transient // Sep 3, 2008, 2:48pm

transient
Total Posts: 977
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I don't see many people using lightworks in workspace unless the shader plug-ins come over as well, and I doubt that will happen. This is the best thing about lightworks imo. You will presumably be able to use lightworks in 7.6 in the future regardless of whether it makes the cut, it hasn't changed much since 6.6 anyway.


You will still have dribble and vray for workspace, plus maybe others. The latest Lightworks is pretty good, but it would have a hard time competing against vray especially.


Personally, I would just like more shaders for dribble. Something like shaderlab or shadermagic would rock.

Post by Burnart // Sep 3, 2008, 3:43pm

Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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I have no real issues Burnart, just a boat load of stuff to bring up to date and get published online...I simply can't do it in workspace efficiently yet.


I have been using the workspace since the early tS7 alpha builds...it is not that I can't use it just that I don't.


I guess it is like a writer having a super fast PC and office suite but it is still quicker to type on their trusty old typewriter...

....I will get there...;)


Fair enough! As a hobbiest I have a very sweet time line so no hassles with that. But, I am a "renderer" at heart and as much as admire the realtime work that some people are doing I still want dof, reflections etc that only rendering gives (at this stage). Unfortunately being a hobbiest I simply can't justify the cost of VRay to myself so I'm glad I can at least render on the modelside.


Of course that was my original point a few posts back - the observation that you can use the new tools and still output from the modelside. In versions 7.0, 7.1 and even 7.5 I wouldn't have recommended it but in 7.6 it seems much less problematic - plus 7.6 has an expanded tool set.


(BTW Splinters, how are your students getting on with the free 7.6?)

Post by splinters // Sep 4, 2008, 12:57am

splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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We only returned yesterday Burnart but they are already scrambling to download the free software...:D


Gonna be so much easier running DT clubs where I can teach tS to a group and the collaborative thing was once restricted to just Hemulin...now I can involve the whole school!!


As for the Bridge...sometimes it just makes the whole system too slow and unresponsive to work with...and in Vista causes all sorts of stalls and hangs.


Once I get Buddy World Phase 3 finished (all current material converted to site) I can start messing with the workspace for new projects.


Hopefully it will all be done by Xmas so I can have a good play then...:o
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