|
|
New to True space
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
New to True space // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by clark77057 // Sep 15, 2007, 10:19am
|
clark77057
Total Posts: 19
|
Since I am new to Truespace 7.51 or any truespace for that matter. How do I go about constructing a building? The first project will be outside the building, the second project the inside the building and the third being a vending machine.
Clark |
Post by splinters // Sep 15, 2007, 10:28am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
Welcome aboard clark, many helpful folks here but that request is a bit vague. If your second project is inside the building you make then it will need to be reasonably detailed with the vending machine being one of those details. Beyond that-what style of building, does it already exist etc.
Architecture is not my thing really but you will get more help if you can post some more specific details. |
Post by clark77057 // Sep 15, 2007, 10:31am
|
clark77057
Total Posts: 19
|
Welcome aboard clark, many helpful folks here but that request is a bit vague. If your second project is inside the building you make then it will need to be reasonably detailed with the vending machine being one of those details. Beyond that-what style of building, does it already exist etc.
Architecture is not my thing really but you will get more help if you can post some more specific details.
It is an existing building made of tempered glass and brick, the inside is your standard white wall sheet rock.
Clark |
Post by TomG // Sep 17, 2007, 2:57am
|
TomG
Total Posts: 3397
|
That's still quite a vague request :) It's always best to narrow down questions to specifics if you can - "how do I make this concrete block", "how do I make my glass look realistic" etc.
With any object the process for "how do I make it" is the same - decide where it splits up into separate objects so you can work on it a piece at a time. Always best to have small bites, small things to tackle and make. Then you can ask more specific questions too, but it helps the project, you then also have a sense of accomplishment when you are done on the first piece that encourages you to keep going on the second :)
So, what is there to model? Metal beams maybe. Glass panels. Curved sheet rock inside? Straight? Do you need the sidewalk? Doors I would guess. Split those down, main part of door, door handle, hinges. Start on the smallest breakdown you can so as to keep yourself encouraged! Nothign wrong with starting with the door handle or hinge.
The techniques for modeling particular things will depend on what it is. A curved wall may need a different approach from a straight wall. A glass panel might just be a cube scaled real thin.
To tackle it, start with modeling and don't worry about light and texture. Just get the geometry right, even if it is all plain white and lit starkly. Then worry about textures once modeling is a long way along. Then worry about lighting when texturing is a long way along.
This is a general guide for the general question :) As you break it down you will get more specific questions "This door handle is curved, how do I make that", "how do I get a good wood look for my door?", "I want it to look like realistic daylight" and so on.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by tylerh // Sep 19, 2007, 10:16am
|
tylerh
Total Posts: 47
|
From another new trueSpace user, well I've had previous versions but always get set back, but that's a different story...:D . Just wanted to say that was great words of wisdom Tom! It's those simple things that seem to keep me motivated especially this time around. I read something the other day where the author said to just start modeling things around the house; small things. Anyway, just saying that I appreciate the comments and great general rules to abide by! |
Post by clark77057 // Sep 19, 2007, 1:46pm
|
clark77057
Total Posts: 19
|
From another new trueSpace user, well I've had previous versions but always get set back, but that's a different story...:D . Just wanted to say that was great words of wisdom Tom! It's those simple things that seem to keep me motivated especially this time around. I read something the other day where the author said to just start modeling things around the house; small things. Anyway, just saying that I appreciate the comments and great general rules to abide by!
Before I ask anymore questions I am going to wait for the tutorials to come in. I take it the reason I need Photoshop is to create The bricks and the winddows etc.
Clark |
Post by tylerh // Sep 20, 2007, 1:17am
|
tylerh
Total Posts: 47
|
Before I ask anymore questions I am going to wait for the tutorials to come in. I take it the reason I need Photoshop is to create The bricks and the winddows etc.
Clark
As I mentioned before, I'm not an expert or anything but to my understanding, Photoshop is used for things like texturing and post op after rendering and things like that. So for making bricks, you would model it in trueSpace and then later texture it with something you made in another program; such as Photoshop, GIMP or any program like that.
Oh, one other friendly piece of advice is to keep asking questions if you have them. This community is great for answering questions and getting the help you need. Tutorials are great and everything but there's nothing like starting something from scratch on your own. To me, that's the biggest hurdle right there. When you're looking at a blank 3D space it is a bit intimidating. |
Post by splinters // Sep 20, 2007, 2:30am
|
splinters
Total Posts: 4148
|
To put this into perspective. If I had only two programs on my PC they would be Photoshop and truespace which would cover all my 2D and 3D needs. All the rest are helpful but between them then make up 90% of my creative time on the PC.
Photoshop is useful for textures, recolouring, resizing, compositing and a hundred other things prior to using trueSpace.
Not much I render (in fact nothing really) ever gets out without going through Photoshop and that is before you figure in the fact that tS7.5 (or 6.6 with iPak) can render out multi pass layers in Photoshop format. Best look at the ipak page for more details on that.
Of course Photoshop is not the only 2D program...but in my opinion is the best...:D |
Post by clark77057 // Sep 20, 2007, 12:10pm
|
clark77057
Total Posts: 19
|
To put this into perspective. If I had only two programs on my PC they would be Photoshop and truespace which would cover all my 2D and 3D needs. All the rest are helpful but between them then make up 90% of my creative time on the PC.
Photoshop is useful for textures, recolouring, resizing, compositing and a hundred other things prior to using trueSpace.
Not much I render (in fact nothing really) ever gets out without going through Photoshop and that is before you figure in the fact that tS7.5 (or 6.6 with iPak) can render out multi pass layers in Photoshop format. Best look at the ipak page for more details on that.
Of course Photoshop is not the only 2D program...but in my opinion is the best...:D
The third program would be Ulead Studio editor 8, which has auto music and other capabilities such as DVD maker and different video formats.
My wife said that my Truespace software came in today so I will look it over on the weekend. :D
Clark |
Post by Burnart // Sep 20, 2007, 6:04pm
|
Burnart
Total Posts: 839
|
This is all getting a bit off topic but I can't help myself!:D :D
Photoshop may well be the best but its also pretty damn expensive - there are a lot cheaper programs out there that have 95% of the functions of Photoshop at a fraction of the price (- Gimp costs nothing, Paint Shop Pro, Painter etc could get the whole Corel Draw Suite for less than the cost of Photoshop.) Speaking as a hobbiest I can't think of anything Photoshop does that the other products cheap and free can't do - at least not the things I require from a paint program. Don't get me wrong I'm not bad mouthing Photoshop, its a fantastic program - but do I NEED it? No! Do I LUST after it? No!
Back to the topic making buildings - I say just get stuck in start with some cubes and boolean operations and through experimenting build sophistication and experience. Don't be scared to move between modelside boolean and workspace polygon tools - the bridge works pretty good now compared to v7. |
Post by clark77057 // Sep 21, 2007, 1:39am
|
clark77057
Total Posts: 19
|
This is all getting a bit off topic but I can't help myself!:D :D
Photoshop may well be the best but its also pretty damn expensive - there are a lot cheaper programs out there that have 95% of the functions of Photoshop at a fraction of the price (- Gimp costs nothing, Paint Shop Pro, Painter etc could get the whole Corel Draw Suite for less than the cost of Photoshop.) Speaking as a hobbiest I can't think of anything Photoshop does that the other products cheap and free can't do - at least not the things I require from a paint program. Don't get me wrong I'm not bad mouthing Photoshop, its a fantastic program - but do I NEED it? No! Do I LUST after it? No!
Back to the topic making buildings - I say just get stuck in start with some cubes and boolean operations and through experimenting build sophistication and experience. Don't be scared to move between modelside boolean and workspace polygon tools - the bridge works pretty good now compared to v7.
Thank you for the tip. 850,000 users can't be wrong. Plus this software will run on a Celron laptop. :) I already own Photoshop 7.0 just don't know how to use it. :o
clark |
Post by Steinie // Sep 21, 2007, 2:32am
|
Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
|
Clark77057, sounds like your getting all the right toys this year. Have fun and welcome to the Forums. |
Post by TomG // Sep 24, 2007, 5:38am
|
TomG
Total Posts: 3397
|
You wouldnt use Photoshop to make your bricks etc, nope :) Here is a breakdown of how a 3D scene is constructed. It has basically 3 elements
1. Models
These are geometry, the shapes of things. They dont tell you what it is made of etc, it just has the shape. Imagine the whole world made out of some non-specific grey "stuff" like some clay, and that's a good impression.
2. Textures
Once you have the shapes defined, you color everything in :) This says what the surface is made from, is it wood, metal, glass? Part of this is done in the 3D program where you define how the material responds to light (does it let you see through it, does it reflect and by how much, is it shiny or matte, etc).
Sometimes though you need to add more color than simple colors. Then you add in a 2D image to color in the surface of your 3D object. This is called a texture or texture map etc. You might use Photoshop here (or as mentioned ANY 2D package, from free to cheap to expensive) to paint the 2D image. Or you might use a photo. Or you might just buy some 2D images from somewhere else.
So Photoshop (or any 2D app) doesnt actually make anything in your 3D scene, it just gives you the 2D image to paint onto your object.
Texturing gets much more complex as you can use procedural textures instead of texture maps (the color is derived using mathematical formula and algorithms rather than just painting on an image), and you can also start using reflectance maps (to define that some parts of an object are shinier or more reflective than others, as one example).
So a 2D application is optional, you don't need one to make 3D. But it will help you make and manipulate images that you can use in this second stage of the process.
Note you mention using it to make bricks or windows, the answer is nope - you'd make those in tS as 3D models, in the modeling stage. Then having defined the shape, you'd define what they were made from. For texturing glass, you wouldn't use any texture map usually (unless its stained glass) you would just set up transmission and reflectance and shininess in the 3D app.
For bricks, you don't model individual bricks. You model the whole wall. Then you apply an image of bricks onto it, making it look like the cube (assuming you have a simple square shaped wall) is actually made from bricks. For a floor, you wouldn model just one large flat area, then the texture map would make it look like it was made from tiles (or planks of wood, or marble, etc).
3. Lighting
With shapes and materials in place, you then decide how the lighting is set up in the scene. You position light sources, set which ones have shadows, and decide whether you are using HDRI, GI, and other such lighting options.
You'll note in movie credits that things are divided up this way - there is a section for Modelers, a section for Texturers, a section for Lighting. So on big projects, there are people who do nothing but lights and don't touch models and textures, and so on. This means you can conceptually separate out these parts of the process, and keep them distinct. So you model (create the shape), then you texture (define what it is made from, including smaller parts like bricks, tiles, planks), and then light.
It's quite a trick visualising how an object or a scene can be broken up in this way, and just takes practice :)
Hope this helps put a perspective on everything!
Tom |
Post by Norm // Sep 24, 2007, 5:57am
|
Norm
Total Posts: 862
|
one word ... indubbubly (http://www.texturemaker.com/news.php) |
Post by tylerh // Sep 24, 2007, 6:46am
|
tylerh
Total Posts: 47
|
Another great post Tom as well as the link to Texture Maker. I think that breaking up the tasks of a 3D scene or model like you did helps take it in nice, small, bite sized chunks. So the first thing to do is practice the modeling side and then try your hand at texturing? Because I have heard that it is a good idea to texture as you go as well. |
Post by TomG // Sep 24, 2007, 10:01am
|
TomG
Total Posts: 3397
|
Depends on what you are texturing, but usually waiting until modeling is finished is best.
Certainly when you start out, I would recommend it, to help you learn each part of the process more clearly.
In general it works like this though, if you make a model and line up your tetxure carefully say to put a pocket on the shirt, or a freckle on the characters nose, then if you edit the model, suddenly your texture work is wasted - the freckle or pocket is in the wrong place.
Now, if you are just putting a repeating brick texture onto a wall, it doesn't really matter so much (though if you go resizing the wall, you will be stretching or squashing the bricks, so often it might be best to wait until you have all walls to ensure you can UV map them consistently).
What I prefer to do is to put on a basic color just for working. If my floor is black marble, I'll put a dark grey color on it. And if my walls red bricks, a reddish orange color goes there.
So I don't waste time creating exact textures (or use distractingly unaligned textures), but at the same time I get some visual impression that is more than the blank clay.
All that said, if you take a look at folks like Stephen Britton, you'll find their WIPs share their workflow - and Steve starts with the grey, clay mesh, then once done he moves on to texturing. With good reason I would say :)
Of course one thing to remember - there is no RIGHT answer here. If you find you prefer to model with the final lighting and good textures, then go for it! It really is what works best for you. I think there are reasons for and benefits from certain workflows though, so good to look at those and have a think about it all at least :)
Also when starting out I think it worth keeping them separate, to help you grasp each separately - then with some understanding of each issue, you can move on to seeing how they work together. (Of course, its useful to know when making a wall, you dont model the bricks, but use textures for those small details and just model the global surface of the wall!). What's important really though is knowing each area and what role it plays in the final picture of things.
HTH!
Tom |
|
