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JULY 2008 MMC - Comments
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JULY 2008 MMC - Comments // Monthly Modeling Contest
Post by Dragneye // Jun 25, 2008, 6:16pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Well, here we go. :)
I was really surprised at the lack of participation in the last challenge, as I thought Nez's open ended idea 'Create a Character' was a really good one. I Really do hope new faces join the fun. Great luck to you all with this idea. :jumpy: |
Post by kena // Jun 25, 2008, 6:21pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Since I'm as yet terrible at characters, I bowed out of the last one. I will have to give this one some thought to see if I want to try it out. To give it a more liberal translation... Does it have to be wonders of THIS world, or can you make a wonder from a totally different world?
Also, should it get to the final render stage, can we only render in TS, then post-process, or can we make our models in TS and use a different program to render? |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 25, 2008, 6:35pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Hmm kena... well up till now I was thinking 'of this world', but hey, I DID also say it's up to 'Your' interpretation, so... :D... I'm game.
Now as to the second point... I tend to be somewhat of a purist. Since this is a tS forum, I'd like to see what greatness we can achieve with this program, but I Surely don't want to stifle ANY creativity, so I'll accept everyone's decision. How about it folks? What's the verdict? Render using only tS? (we have a lil' time for that one kena, so I'll just wait to give you a final answer)
Either way, I'd love to see something from you, see where your mind takes it :-D |
Post by kena // Jun 25, 2008, 7:45pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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heh... My Ideas are still unformed. I was thinking of doing one of OUR wonders and set it somewhere else. parallel world, or an alien one. It would allow for a bit of creativity. |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 25, 2008, 9:39pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Hey kena, that's very cool! You cover both bases so to speak ;) |
Post by Nez // Jun 25, 2008, 10:41pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Now as to the second point... I tend to be somewhat of a purist. Since this is a tS forum, I'd like to see what greatness we can achieve with this program, but I Surely don't want to stifle ANY creativity, so I'll accept everyone's decision. How about it folks? What's the verdict? Render using only tS? (we have a lil' time for that one kena, so I'll just wait to give you a final answer)
Either way, I'd love to see something from you, see where your mind takes it :-D
For what it's worth (not much!), this is my opinion on the matter:
I don't recall what whether it was specifically specified in th eoriginal challenges (or even in the SMCs for that mattter) but my feeling is that trueSpace should be used for a substantial or significant portion of the work, but not necessarily to the exclusion of other software - i.e. a similar position to the Caligari Gallery.
In other words - you could do all your modelling in tS and render in another app (Bryce, Vue, Kerky etc just as possible examples)
Alternatively, you could do some/most of your modelling outside tS so long as your rendering was handled through tS (which would include the likes of MadMouse for example, who models in Silo but renders in tS) However, I'm aware that some folks may be less happy about this second example (not MM specifically, but the idea of ALL the modelling being done outside tS) so it may be that a consensus has to be reached as to what would be acceptable to the majority on that. My feeling would be that provided some of the modelling is still carried out in tS (not just a 'token gesture') this would be OK, even if the key focus (e.g. a character or other major item) could be produced using alternate software - providing we're still shown WIP for that too. Essentially tS has to be the most important application in your workflow, regardless of the combination of apps used - IMO.
Based on previous discussions, I would think that UVmapping and post-processing without tS should be acceptable to most and would indeed be considered normal, so I can't see that use of other software shouldn't be valid in the MMCs - even if the same was not held to be valid for the SMCs.
Suggest we wait for some feedback from a few other seasoned MMC hands and then perhpas a vote if there isn't a strong consensus one way or another. At the very least, I think the use of alternate renderers should probably be allowed. The modelling issue is a bit more complex - I'm for allowing a degree of modelling in other apps to be permitted, providing at least a fair proportion is still modelled in tS.
To get back on subject - interesting challenge. Perhaps you could provide a list of the 'original' and 'new' seven wonders to save us having to look them up? I'm so lazy at the mo...!:o |
Post by Steinie // Jun 26, 2008, 2:17am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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The original 7 Wonders of the World
* Great Pyramid of Giza
* Hanging Gardens of Babylon
* Statue of Zeus at Olympia
* Temple of Artemis at Ephesus
* Mausoleum of Maussollos at Halicarnassus
* Colossus of Rhodes
* Lighthouse of Alexandria
Seven greatest wonders of the Medieval world
* Stonehenge
* Colosseum
* Taj Mahal
* Great Wall of China
* Porcelain Tower of Nanjing
* Hagia Sophia
* Leaning Tower of Pisa
New 7 Wonders of the World
Great Wall of China
Petra
Christ the Redeemer (statue)
Machu Picchu
Chichen Itza
Roman Colosseum
Taj Mahal
Great Pyramid
Steinie's 7 Wonders of the World
1) My 8th Grade Teacher "Miss Perky" on a cold day.
2) Why convicted felon Martha Stewart is so popular?
3) My 8th Grade Teacher "Miss Perky" on a cold day. (She had two Wonders)
4) How an overweight boxer can become a millionaire selling grills to chubby people. (It didn't work for him!)
5) Will my 69 Rambler start tomorrow?
6) All lottery winners look like their ready to die.
7) What will TS7.6 include?... |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 26, 2008, 2:45am
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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I bows with humbleness and gratitude for helping me along with the list... as I laugh out loud at your 7 Wonders :D Thanx buddy; my day is perking up already. So Steinie, looks like you have a whole bunch of choices to pick from already, and, some you can even combine.
btw: I spent some time with Ms Stewart. She was very pleasant and proper as we talked and she showed me around, all the while her 'helpers' scowling at me, waiting for their chance to tell me in person how mean she really is. It was an interesting experience. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jun 26, 2008, 5:10am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Great list Steinie! :D
I think allowing the voters to weight their vote based on how much of the work was done in TS would be the simplest approach. Personally I would like to see at least some of the modeling and scene composition done in TS. But it's certainly ok to use other modeling apps to do things that would be difficult to do in TS.
We do want to keep in mind that these challenge are a great way to showcase what Truespace can do for prospective new users who come by the forums to check it out. ;)
Another good topic guys. This one should have a lot of available photo references for people to use.
Looking forward to see what everyone comes up with! |
Post by Breech Block // Jun 26, 2008, 9:42am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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I was really surprised at the lack of participation in the last challenge, as I thought Nez's open ended idea 'Create a Character' was a really good one.:jumpy:
Nez's idea was indeed excellent and I for one very much enjoyed reading and following the WIP threads and found them to be quite informative. However, like Kena, I felt it was a little beyond my ability at this stage.
Moving on, I think you have chosen a real imaginative subject for this months MMC and wish you luck over your presidency of the competition. |
Post by Nez // Jun 26, 2008, 10:06pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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The original 7 Wonders of the World
* Great Pyramid of Giza
* Hanging Gardens of Babylon
* Statue of Zeus at Olympia
* Temple of Artemis at Ephesus
* Mausoleum of Maussollos at Halicarnassus
* Colossus of Rhodes
* Lighthouse of Alexandria
Seven greatest wonders of the Medieval world
* Stonehenge
* Colosseum
* Taj Mahal
* Great Wall of China
* Porcelain Tower of Nanjing
* Hagia Sophia
* Leaning Tower of Pisa
New 7 Wonders of the World
Great Wall of China
Petra
Christ the Redeemer (statue)
Machu Picchu
Chichen Itza
Roman Colosseum
Taj Mahal
Great Pyramid
Steinie's 7 Wonders of the World
1) My 8th Grade Teacher "Miss Perky" on a cold day.
2) Why convicted felon Martha Stewart is so popular?
3) My 8th Grade Teacher "Miss Perky" on a cold day. (She had two Wonders)
4) How an overweight boxer can become a millionaire selling grills to chubby people. (It didn't work for him!)
5) Will my 69 Rambler start tomorrow?
6) All lottery winners look like their ready to die.
7) What will TS7.6 include?...
Heh, thanks Steinie, great lists! Not sure that Stonehenge should be listed under Medieval world, it's a bit older than that...
I'm looking forward to your entry though - Miss Perky, in your 69 Rambler driving up the side of the Pyramids?! :D
Depending on what you consider a 'modern' wonder or iconic structure, you could also consider:
Sydney Opera House
Empire State building (or other iconic high-rises)
Eiffel Tower
Golden Gate Bridge (or other iconic bridges - e.g. Sydney)
Notre Dame
Kremlin (St Basil's cathedral)
etc, etc
Mind you, some of the possibilities are pretty elaborate for modelling in the time-frame - could be intersting in the timeframe... could maybe see alot of entries for the Pyramids?! ;) |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 28, 2008, 7:37pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Thanx Breech Block :-)
'Presidency', lol... I like that.
Nez, I'd like to see even 1 entry for the pyramid; at least kena would have some company. It'd be cool if some of the folks from SMC would give it a go also. Inspire those that have never done this to at least give it a shot.
PS: I ain't allowed to enter huh? :D |
Post by Steinie // Jun 29, 2008, 3:56am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I've been playing around with ideas on this one. Actually I DO know what I want to do for this one. However I leave for Vacation in a week so inactivity doesn't mean I won't be joining. My submission might be coming in later. Let's see what happens today.;)
Edit: To prove I am committing I'll start my WIP thread. |
Post by Nez // Jun 29, 2008, 10:19pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Thanx Breech Block :-)
'Presidency', lol... I like that.
Nez, I'd like to see even 1 entry for the pyramid; at least kena would have some company. It'd be cool if some of the folks from SMC would give it a go also. Inspire those that have never done this to at least give it a shot.
PS: I ain't allowed to enter huh? :D
Dragn; I figured the pyramids might be an easier choice for someone who's not tried the MMC before - e.g. some of the SMC crowd; you could just throw some basic shapes in, create abit of a landscape and have some fun with lighting/post-work and probably come up with something quite nice. So I hope someone tries it... I might have a go myself, but was thinking I should tackle something more ambitious; I've never actually done any kind of building exterior - I've done a few interiors but never the outside, so this is a good oportunity....
As for your PS, I don't believe I said you couldn't enter! There seems to have been some mixed opinion on this in the past as to whether the 'host' should enter or not. I'm not sure a definitive ruling has ever been made and the conditions seem to vary a bit from challenge to challenge. I decided onthe last MMC that I would follow the challenge myself and make a character, but not put him up for the vote so that I guaranteed someone else would get the next turn in setting the challenge, which I felt was fairest for such a long challenge. For the SMCs, where challenges change failt rapidy I don't think it matters so much but this is your challenge, so you call the rules - the next host can always change them for their challenge... I hope you will at least make a scne whether or not you put it up for the vote... |
Post by Dragneye // Jun 30, 2008, 4:24pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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@ Jack Edwards - your point is well stated; '1 main pic for the final because all the rest can be seen on each individual's WIP thread. Point being to have a good pic for the gallery, if it makes it' - Well, something like my frisbee entry in the SMC that makes sense, but other ones may have two or three good/important sides, very different from each other, and, people don't always run to view the WIP to get All the details (heck, it's hard enough getting people to stop and vote at all). So, I suggest maybe 2, or 3 final shots at the most. Viable?
@Nez - ok, I'll start a WIP called 'Colossus of Rhodes' but it WILL NOT be up for voting. Let others have a go at it. And, I really don't want to think of it as 'my' challenge. It's really for the community, finding an inspiration to try and improve their modelling, lighting, rendering, compositional, etc, skills.
Actually, the Colossus statue is basically a male body, so can practice my 'making a body' skills. Maybe in some way it'll help others along.
@Steinie - Very cool! Welcome aboard. :) |
Post by Nez // Jun 30, 2008, 10:07pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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@ Jack Edwards - your point is well stated; '1 main pic for the final because all the rest can be seen on each individual's WIP thread. Point being to have a good pic for the gallery, if it makes it' - Well, something like my frisbee entry in the SMC that makes sense, but other ones may have two or three good/important sides, very different from each other, and, people don't always run to view the WIP to get All the details (heck, it's hard enough getting people to stop and vote at all). So, I suggest maybe 2, or 3 final shots at the most. Viable?
I'm inclined to agree - and actually put a similar adjustment in to the rules of the last MMC - I felt that it was reasonable to choose a couple of images to best represent your efforts, at your discretion. Some of us will be working with a specific composition in mind though and may only want to show one view (so you can't see the bits we haven't done off-camera or at the back :D |
Post by Michael Billard // Jul 1, 2008, 6:55am
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Michael Billard
Total Posts: 125
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I haven't done an MMC in a long time (my first one was the butterfly-wasp fantasy ship inspired by Spelljammer), and I'm stuck on the F-19 Saber, so in honor of a particular event that happened nearly 40 years ago this month, I will try to model Apollo 11's Saturn V Moon rocket. I don't have any other program than tS and V-Ray for tS (which I've never used admittedly) for modeling and rendering, but I do have Ultimate Unwrap and Photoshop to do the texturing with. Would that still be within the rules, or do I need to use tS' unwrapper? |
Post by kena // Jul 1, 2008, 10:14am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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I don't think it matters if you make the textures outside of TS for something that complicated. I would say it's ok, but I guess you have to ask our MMC moderator of the month. |
Post by Michael Billard // Jul 1, 2008, 12:49pm
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Michael Billard
Total Posts: 125
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Yeah, it might be a bit more than I can do in a month. Saturn V was definitely complicated. |
Post by Steinie // Jul 1, 2008, 2:34pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Michael Billard, Come on and join the fun! Model the rocket and see how far you can take it. It would be great having you back.
Nothing you mentioned would be against the rules. Heck I think we all are using similar software. The "Primary" Software should be TS
and that is an easy rule to follow. |
Post by Dragneye // Jul 1, 2008, 5:51pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Very correct. Surely one can use an outside program for the textures. We all (most? - I use Painter if anything) use the likes of Photoshop to work on the textures, so No problem.
Yes, the basic idea is to use tS as much as you can is all.
Trust me, I just discovered zbrush! Would love to try and model something in that,... lol, but I digress. Carry on. :-D |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 13, 2008, 12:00am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Some more ideas:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Heritage_Site |
Post by rjeff // Jul 13, 2008, 12:56pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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As far as using other software Mr. Ballard I use Bryce for my landscapes and atmosphere rendering, as I personally think that it does a better job than TS, based on my ability. I to use UU3D and Photoshop as well. |
Post by Michael Billard // Jul 17, 2008, 6:18am
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Michael Billard
Total Posts: 125
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Well unfortunately work had other plans for my time this month... But thanks for the info nonetheless! |
Post by Dragneye // Jul 17, 2008, 10:03am
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Yeah folks. The main giudeline should be.. to use tS for most of your entry... in a tS challenge. Simple as that. We all use outside aids/enhancements, but I think the model (which if I got it right is main point of the challenge. The 'beauty render' is the icing) should be made with tS.
Let's not over-worry about the point. Just play fair, and do the best you can with tS, as far as it can take ya. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 17, 2008, 1:34pm
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Jack Edwards
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I agree with Dragneye. You don't have to do everything in TrueSpace but try to use TS for as much of it as you can.
Texture maps and Displacement maps should of course be done in your favorite paint program. Z-brush to add detail to a model is mostly ok, just try not to over do it. Like for example don't import a cube from TS into Z-brush and then bring back into TS a fully detailed person... ;)
UV apps are certainly recommended if you have a complex model. UVLayout, Ultimate Unwrap 3D, Roadkill, UV Mapper Pro, are all good mappers worth looking into.
Likewise you can use any render engine you want, inside or external to TrueSpace. The main thing is to do as much of the modeling as you can inside TrueSpace, but if you save a bit of time by exporting it to another app to make a few changes, don't sweat it.
Entries are judged on completed image as well as the modeling and process. Keep up the good work and good luck to all the participants! :D |
Post by Dragneye // Jul 17, 2008, 7:48pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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We can use zbrush?!!!
Well, I'll say no more. For this, even though mine is not up for judging, I'll still use the ole tried and true method of pushing edges, pulling verts, adding edges, subtracting edges......... undo, undo, undo...redo, rethink, .... adjust, add, ...... lolol
PS: I would LUV to use zbrush on this, but I don't think that's fair. But... it isn't my contest. It's our challenge, so... |
Post by Dragneye // Jul 22, 2008, 6:24pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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I'll be closing down final entries some time early Saturday to cover all possible time zones. The original dates were picked just to try and get the Challenge monthly schedule back on track, so my apologies for the shortened time.
Remember that judging in this case, can also be from the WIP pics. Some entries may not be complete and I want to honor and credit all who made an effort to submit something. You folks deserve it. :banana: |
Post by Steinie // Jul 23, 2008, 12:48am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Before this one is over I just want to thank Dragneye for doing a great job chairing his first Challenge. You ran it nice and smooth.:) |
Post by Nez // Jul 23, 2008, 2:07am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Indeed - well done! Did a much better job of keeping to a sensible timeframe than... err.... :o |
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