|
|
Talking Heads
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Talking Heads // New Users
Post by Musikman // Mar 23, 2009, 3:52pm
|
Musikman
Total Posts: 88
|
Hey Rich & trueBlue (or any senior member):
Just began reading about Morphs and it seems like that chapter takes care of the facial expressions, and I was surprised how much can be done in there! Still reading, no hands on yet...
I did not, however, read anything in that chapter of the manual regarding automated lip sync, or for that matter I've had difficulty finding any written info or video tutorial material on Audio, period.
A small push in the right direction would be much appreciated, then I can look at the whole concept beginning with facial expressions to adding audio voices to match the expressions, then of course my famous learning curve.... :D.....how to put it together and save my Talking Head ! :rolleyes:
Thanks!
Paul (Musikman) |
Post by RichLevy // Mar 23, 2009, 6:31pm
|
RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
|
Go to your local library and see if they have this book. http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Staring-Facial-Modeling-Animation/dp/0782141293
It will take you thru the process of creating the geometry and than setting up the morphs (in Maya I believe, you will have to interpret the TS system into it) and than combining them to sounds, music and talking. Very informative and well worth the read.
I have very little experience with doing this in TS, it is something I am getting to in TS with a personal project I am playing around with now... but it will probably be another month or two before my characters are ready for dialogue.
HTH
Rich |
Post by Musikman // Mar 23, 2009, 6:50pm
|
Musikman
Total Posts: 88
|
Hey Rich
That book sounds like it's worth looking into. I'll give it a try. I've been looking through the TS tutorial videos & manual once again, just to make sure I didn't miss anything, but so far still haven't found anything on adding audio/dialogue. Good luck with your project Rich & thanks for the tip!
Paul |
Post by TomG // Mar 24, 2009, 2:24am
|
TomG
Total Posts: 3397
|
Right now you'd need to add the audio post process - the workspace animation editor doesn't allow for adding audio into it, and you'd need to use that for working with morphs. The Model side keyframe editor did let you add audio directly into it, as I recall, but then that side doesn't have morphs.
The audio model side was simply included on rendering I believe, as far as I recall you didn't hear it on playback inside tS, only in the final rendering. For timing, I would guess you'd have to break it down into timings before going in to tS to record (ie make notes as to the timings and then set KFs accordingly). Never tried it directly, anyone in the community have advice on that front?
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 24, 2009, 6:07am
|
Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
|
I think this probably needs a plugin done. You really need to see the wave form and have a line showing the current position at a particular key frame. And then hear the wave form on full speed playback to test before rendering.
It would be really hard to do it without those visual and audio cues in the keying environment. It might be possible to key the mouth movement using the script then have the voice artist try to match the video... but considering the financial cost of voice talent, I think that's a risky approach as well.
I'll add this to my todo list for plugins, but I've already got a lot on my plate so no promises. :rolleyes: |
Post by Musikman // Mar 24, 2009, 7:08am
|
Musikman
Total Posts: 88
|
Hi Tom & Jack,
Thanks for the reply. Only have had TS for about a week, so please forgive my ignorance of the terminology. :o When you say "post process", do you mean within TS or post process using another program such as Vegas or Premiere? When my girlfriend and I first downloaded TS I remember purely by accident, she had a character on the default screen and found a dialogue box to type in some words and TS proceeded to audibly "speak" the words and move the character's mouth to match. But that was already within TS program, not the same as importing a pre-recorded wav file into TS from another music program. She doesn't remember where she found that box now!
Regarding the other part of my inquiry, is there a video tutorial or written info somewhere within TrueSpace manual or videos, that teaches the step by step process? I learn much quicker by hands on, if I could find some kind of step to step instruction it would help lift the fog a bit quicker.:)
Jack,
Thanks for jumping in on this one. I appreciate your consideration for a plug-in, it's going to take me awhile to grasp the concept anyway. I think I understand your explanation to be that in the screen where I add the mouth movement, the program doesn't allow me to bring in outside audio to that environment, so I'll have to type in what is to be spoken, save the mouth movement part of it, then add my voice on wav afterwards to try to match it with the movements. Is that correct? I have a full music production studio, so I'll be using TC Helicon's "VoicePrism" to do the voices myself, no need to hire talent! Thanks to all for your time.
Paul |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 24, 2009, 8:52am
|
Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
|
Hi Musikman,
Post Process means in your movie editing program or Photoshop, etc., after all the work in trueSpace is finished, so yeah, external to trueSpace.
What you're talking about with the typing in for speaking, sounds like the old Facial Animator plugin. It's only for use in the legacy Model-side of the program. You'd have to use the Model-side bones and animation tools to make use of that. It's not compatible with Workspace-side animation tools. The way I'd recommend setting up for implementing facial animation in Workspace is to setup Morphs for each of the vowel sounds and other general expressions and then use the Keying Panel to activate the morph channels for keying that way you can key the morphs and edit the keys in the Animation View.
What I said about using a script, I just mean that if you have a story script written up you can try to manually key the facial animation for the expected vowel sounds. There's no automatic solution for this. You'll get better results keying it manually anyway since then you have full control over the speed and strength of the expression.
Having the wave form displayed in a window inside TS with a red line showing the location within the waveform of the currently selected frame is actually a plugin idea that I'd kicked around last year and forgot about.
There's still some UI issues I need to figure out to implement something like that, but I don't think the overall coding would be that difficult -- just a matter of solving the import for the wave file (probably use an SDK library ;)) and then the math for displaying the waveform scaled to the current frame rate.
Unfortunately there's no video demonstrating Workspace animation workflows available yet other than what you find in the Manual. I'll be covering some skinning and posing in my next installment of the organics course, but that'll be for UV mapping and posing for rendering not animation.
IK Handel has mentioned he's working on an animation video course though. |
Post by TomG // Mar 24, 2009, 9:31am
|
TomG
Total Posts: 3397
|
Yes, that is "old tech" that your girlfriend is recalling, based on the Model side. I wouldn't recommend going there, as it is out of date, and the bones system is much more unfriendly than the new workspace side bones.
No video showing this process, as I don't think it's been done yet in tS7. You'd have to do as Jack suggests and set up the morphs, then the tricky part would be keyframing those - you'd need a "cheat sheet" on paper, playing through your audio file outside of tS and recording the time in seconds when certain sounds occur that you want keyframed.
The in tS you would move to the frame number that matched that point in time, adjust your morph settings to give the right mouth shape, and record a keyframe.
Jack's proposed plugin would remove the need to go through the audio file externally first, and let you move your position in the audio file (with a visual look at what was in the audio wave at that point).
Even then you'd need to render without sound, then add the sound in later (post process meaning outside of tS). Since it is best to render animations to still images anyway (lots of reasons for that, a forum search will uncover the topic discussed on several occasions!), this isn't a major issue, as generally audio is added afterward anyway (has to be, if you've rendered to a sequence of still images).
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Musikman // Mar 24, 2009, 8:42pm
|
Musikman
Total Posts: 88
|
Hey Tom, Jack,
Thanks for the info. I guess unfortunatley I'm going to have to go with trying some things on the fly. Hopefully there will be a tutorial for animation in the near future. Once I get more familiar with the workings of this program and how to morph, I think that adding the voice post production won't be too difficult. I have Sonar 8 Producer, and if I import a video file Sonar provides chase lock sync to time code for frame by frame accuracy when syncing audio to video. My biggest hurdle is learning my way around TS! :rolleyes:
I know I'm not going to be Mr. Pixar overnight, but that's the type of stuff I aspire to be doing eventually!
Right now I'm a bit overloaded with installing & learning a few new programs all at once, but I'm slowly making progress. Just upgraded my PC & re-installing, new installs, etc....lots to learn! :D Thank you for all your support, I really appreciate it. Once I've spent a little time with the morphing instructions you've presented, I'll post again here & let you know how things are progressing.
Paul |
Post by Igor K Handel // Mar 25, 2009, 9:42am
|
Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
|
This thread just caught my eye.
The vid tuts I am currently working on are all relating to the rigging end of things. Filling in some of the gaps that the vids in the manual simply didn't have time to cover. In the current series I will not be delving into the actual animation end of things. Perhaps in the future; though I believe there may be others much more qualified to cover the animation side in depth.
Lipsync would be nice though
2 2d programs spring to mind.. Magpie and Pamela. Would be nice to have a 3D equivalent.
Cheers
IK Handel |
Post by Musikman // Mar 25, 2009, 7:04pm
|
Musikman
Total Posts: 88
|
Hello Igor
Thanks for noticing and jumping on board this subject. Plain & simple, I loved cartoons when I was a kid, still do. Had a brief college career of one year before I joined a band and went on the road,...bad decision, but that's in the past now & I did have lots of fun on the road...At that time persuing a possible career in cartooning was put on the back burner and left there....so it goes....but now middle aged and excited about the possiblility I can re-capture an undying dream of mine.
The first and practically sole reason I installed TS is just that...to make funny animated cartoons that will make people laugh....we need more of that in this world! Give the characters funny stuff to say, make them even funny looking and original....seeing my vision yet??:)
Of course I'm very happy to have whatever tools TS offers and I'll make it work. I'd like to start learning the morphing, and also how to create backgrounds. For example....been wondering how to make my animated characters seem as if they are walking down a city street or through a field and make it look real, like the background moves along as the character walks forward. Or background moves faster as the character begins running.
Anyway, lots to learn and middle aged is still young enough to make dreams a reality, don't you think? :D
Thanks again
Paul |
Post by Steinie // Mar 26, 2009, 3:08am
|
Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
|
Musikman, did you say you want to be a Cartoonist?...I like you already!:)
There was a project done by Prodigy that no one else seemed to pursue later.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=62604&postcount=40
If you could keyframe these slider positions to sync with sound we might just have a lip sync tool.
In trueSpace's current form I would do the voice/sound first and then render single frames based on the timing needed. Then combine in Premier or other syncing program.
Animation takes lots of work and time but is very rewarding. It as close as you'll ever get thinking you just created the next Frankenstein.:cool: |
Post by seppgirty // Mar 26, 2009, 5:17am
|
seppgirty
Total Posts: 15
|
if you are looking to do speech using "cartoony" looking characters you might want to look at the SOUTH PARK RELOADED tutorials. (if you haven't already) i think it's a great tutorial for doing simple model animation.... |
Post by Igor K Handel // Mar 26, 2009, 8:47am
|
Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
|
Musikman you and I have an amazing amount in common :)
Love of cartoons, in my case gained through watching my dad hand paint cells for old fashioned animation. He had a couple of shorts televised on the BBC, (his employer) many many moons ago.
Music. I was trained at the Royal Academy of Music London, for 15 years had my own business as Piano technician/tuner so all the main studios radio stations concert venues etc in N. Ireland were my customers. Also worked as a manager for a chain of music shops a few years back. Still play keyboards/violin but has taken a back seat for my enthusiasm to learn 3D animation. Joining a band is something a guys gotta do to find out for himself how it really is. Even now I have good friends in their late 40s who still cling to this aspiration, I can't fault them for chasing their dreams.
Go for your dreams we are all a long time dead :D
Middle aged is a grey area lol I should know I will be 50 years young in May
Bring on the laughter I am all for it!!
IK Handel |
Post by mrbones // Mar 26, 2009, 9:13am
|
mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
|
Wasnt that where keyboardist for PinkFloyd? Maybee the Drummer! Was formally Trained?
Musikman you and I have an amazing amount in common :)
Music. I was trained at the Royal Academy of Music London, for 15 years had my own business as Piano technician/tuner so all the main studios radio stations concert venues etc in N. Ireland were my customers. Also worked as a manager for a chain of music shops a few years back. Still play keyboards/violin but has taken a back seat for my enthusiasm to learn 3D animation. Joining a band is something a guys gotta do to find out for himself how it really is. Even now I have good friends in their late 40s who still cling to this aspiration, I can't fault them for chasing their dreams.
Go for your dreams we are all a long time dead :D
Middle aged is a grey area lol I should know I will be 50 years young in May
Bring on the laughter I am all for it!!
IK Handel |
Post by RichLevy // Mar 26, 2009, 9:19am
|
RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
|
My sig used to say "Carpenter by trade, Dreamer by choice" still a dreamer, I love animation, 3D and 2D alike. I also like telling stories and playing music. I think these are all things that people attracted to 3D hold in common. 50 years of experience on this planet have taught me things about myself, I enjoy playing with 3D, it allows me to bring out all the ideas from that little boy in me that plays around in the attic of a brain I have :D
Rich |
Post by Musikman // Mar 26, 2009, 8:21pm
|
Musikman
Total Posts: 88
|
Hey, that's amazing how much alike many of us are here! :)
Igor, your Dad has quite the background and experience! No wonder you're doing this kind of stuff. Unfortunately I lost my dad last year at 87, but he's still with me, he was a character, generous with his love of humor! As for me, I'll be 51 in May! My main ax is Keyboards/Synths/Piano. Lessons for many years when I was a boy, but only a small bit of college formal type training. Been recording for alot of years, now have some super programs to learn & work with, can't wait till it becomes second nature and I can just create without being too pre-occupied with the technical stuff.
I'm still a dreamer too Rich, can never give up on it, gotta be true to your talent, since it is really loaned out to us by the man upstairs, we should be grateful and use that talent to the fullest!
Hey Steinie, could you elaborate a bit more, not sure I'm entirely grasping your instructions,....thanks for jumping on board this thread!
Seppgirdy...I'll check that out this weekend...thanks!
Regards to all,
Musikman (Paul) |
Post by notejam // Mar 30, 2009, 9:44am
|
notejam
Total Posts: 191
|
You can do lip sync animation in model side, and it will play back there ok when not rendering. Explore the head tool more and try all the options. It also has text to speech ability.
It works fine in model side, and I have not tried moving a model side talking animation to work space side yet to see what would happen.
You can use a screen recorder to capture the animation as an avi file or what ever.
You can then use a movie editor and load in the file. Movie editors allow you to lay down sound tracks and its the easy way to get your sound tracks right for each little clip for those non lip sync scenes, and then take all the clips and splice them into your movie.
Find screen recorders by doing google search or go to www.download.com
A screen recorder captures both video and audio thats on your computer and makes a combined movie file out of it. |
Post by Musikman // Mar 30, 2009, 11:30am
|
Musikman
Total Posts: 88
|
Hey Notejam
Thanks for the info. Played with that when I first installed the program, but can't seem to find head tool/text to speech now. How do I get to that head tool screen & options for it & text to speech? Is it just an icon I have to click on? It was about three weeks ago, just forgot....sorry!
Thanks!
Musikman |
|
